Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 19:32     Subject: what happens to my brother when my parents die?
I think any deceit needs to be very minimal. The SSA won't lie for him. If you tell him they're working on getting his money, he will likely call them (frequently ) to check the status. They won't lie to him for you. Any plan that involves asking others to lie will fail.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 18:44     Subject: what happens to my brother when my parents die?
Anonymous wrote:OP, I have read the whole thread. People who do not deal with a delusional person on a regular basis really do not get it. It makes YOU crazy, and oftentimes, the only way to deal with it looks like enabling. My mother is deeply delusional and I have seen my aunt, a trained PHYSICIAN, give up on "fixing" whatever is wrong with her and just go along with her delusion, taking care of her financially and just accepting everything else. You could, of course, just let things go and live your life, and in that case your brother will probably end up homeless. I guess if that is something you can live with it is an option. Two things-

1. You are being too hard on your parents. It sounds like you haven't really accepted that he is mentally ill, and that dealing with him as if he is a mentally healthy person (i.e. making rational, reasonable arguments as to why he should do X, Y, Z) is NOT going to work, no matter how many times you do so. Dealing with a delusional person is extremely, extremely difficult. There is literally nothing you can say or do to bring them down to reality. You HAVE to play along, because this person is not living in the same universe as you. Your parents are most likely not "enabling" him but are dealing with him the only way they can. Pretend that you are dealing with a child- a very large, grumpy, crazy child. Put yourself in your parent's shoes, it is a horrible way to spend your retirement. His condition is also most likely deteriorating as the years go on, so that is another depressing thing.

2. Plan, but don't worry. Worrying is not going to get you anywhere. Try to come up with some sort of plan for what happens when your parents can no longer take care of your brother, just don't expect their cooperation. As long as your brother has the security blanket of his parents, he likely will not cooperate with you. However, once his circumstances change, you will find that he will most likely contort his delusions so that he can keep a roof over his head. And you will have to play along, saying "oh yes bro, since the court system is holding all your money, I guess you have to move into this apartment now! Damn those lawyers!" That's basically how it is.


Or tell him the people at SSDI office are talking to the lawyers and you've found a way to get him at least some of the money he is owed, and that everyone will keep working at it to get the rest.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 18:00     Subject: what happens to my brother when my parents die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:SSDI really is peanuts for somebody with very little work history and at his age. Also, there are rules about the lapse of time between leaving your job and applying. I'm sorry I can't remember the rules, but it's worth googling.




OP--I work for SSA.
The above poster is correct. When did your brother last work a regular job?
Your brother needs a steady work history to even qualify for disability. If you are filing under a mental diagnosis then you need to be prepared to be his representative payee and handle his funds.
He needs to be able to prove he cannot work any job.

Within the last 10 years he needs at least 5 consecutive years where his earnings have met the federal poverty level (ex $1000.00 a month). His "onset" date must be within 1 year of when he last worked.


So, my sister was similar except she has low IQ. She was dependent on my parents and my dad passed at the age of 76, my mother passed at 79. My sister could not manage to get any job and she is currently 59 years old. She has not worked since 2007 and I no longer talk to her (long story). I will say my parents only had property taxes and she failed to pay them. The city is going to foreclose on the house and she is about to end up homeless. I cannot support her in any way and she is not willing to get help because she constantly lies.


Can't he receive SSI without a work history? I know it's not much, but I have seen many such people receive SSI.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 16:26     Subject: what happens to my brother when my parents die?
He's competent?

There ya go.

He is a lost cause.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 16:24     Subject: what happens to my brother when my parents die?
OP:

Stop thinking of your brother as completely unresponsible for his situation, as that doesn't help anything.

He is. He is a selfish, lazy leach. He may also be mentally ill, but he's selfish, and lazy. He's been leaching of your parents for his entire life.

You owe him nothing except the truth.

Make sure you don't become collateral damage. Your duty is to your own wife and children.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 11:41     Subject: what happens to my brother when my parents die?
Anonymous wrote:OP it sounds like there has been a ton of advice that you (or anyone else) can't force your brother to do. Is this a possibility -- before your parents die, have them buy a small house or town house that he could live in then. (Could rent it out until then). If you want to keep him off the streets but out of your house (this is what I would want, at least), then at least there would be a smaller more manageable space for him to live in. (You mentioned their house was way too large to be maintained by him.) The sale of their house would hopefully more than pay for this smaller space.



10:12 poster

The parents don't seem willing to do that. The dad is unwilling and the mom is in denial over the sons handicap.
Plus who would maintain the brothers bills and house?
Asking because my sister had her mind made that I was going to take care of her.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 10:43     Subject: what happens to my brother when my parents die?
OP it sounds like there has been a ton of advice that you (or anyone else) can't force your brother to do. Is this a possibility -- before your parents die, have them buy a small house or town house that he could live in then. (Could rent it out until then). If you want to keep him off the streets but out of your house (this is what I would want, at least), then at least there would be a smaller more manageable space for him to live in. (You mentioned their house was way too large to be maintained by him.) The sale of their house would hopefully more than pay for this smaller space.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 10:31     Subject: what happens to my brother when my parents die?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:SSDI really is peanuts for somebody with very little work history and at his age. Also, there are rules about the lapse of time between leaving your job and applying. I'm sorry I can't remember the rules, but it's worth googling.




OP--I work for SSA.
The above poster is correct. When did your brother last work a regular job?
Your brother needs a steady work history to even qualify for disability. If you are filing under a mental diagnosis then you need to be prepared to be his representative payee and handle his funds.
He needs to be able to prove he cannot work any job.

Within the last 10 years he needs at least 5 consecutive years where his earnings have met the federal poverty level (ex $1000.00 a month). His "onset" date must be within 1 year of when he last worked.


So, my sister was similar except she has low IQ. She was dependent on my parents and my dad passed at the age of 76, my mother passed at 79. My sister could not manage to get any job and she is currently 59 years old. She has not worked since 2007 and I no longer talk to her (long story). I will say my parents only had property taxes and she failed to pay them. The city is going to foreclose on the house and she is about to end up homeless. I cannot support her in any way and she is not willing to get help because she constantly lies.



OP here. Thanks. He does not qualify based on work history. I tried for a long time before the clock ran down. He is competent and would never be adjudicated otherwise. Not sure why people keep hammering on SSDI when it is literally impossible to force someone into it.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 10:12     Subject: what happens to my brother when my parents die?
Anonymous wrote:SSDI really is peanuts for somebody with very little work history and at his age. Also, there are rules about the lapse of time between leaving your job and applying. I'm sorry I can't remember the rules, but it's worth googling.




OP--I work for SSA.
The above poster is correct. When did your brother last work a regular job?
Your brother needs a steady work history to even qualify for disability. If you are filing under a mental diagnosis then you need to be prepared to be his representative payee and handle his funds.
He needs to be able to prove he cannot work any job.

Within the last 10 years he needs at least 5 consecutive years where his earnings have met the federal poverty level (ex $1000.00 a month). His "onset" date must be within 1 year of when he last worked.


So, my sister was similar except she has low IQ. She was dependent on my parents and my dad passed at the age of 76, my mother passed at 79. My sister could not manage to get any job and she is currently 59 years old. She has not worked since 2007 and I no longer talk to her (long story). I will say my parents only had property taxes and she failed to pay them. The city is going to foreclose on the house and she is about to end up homeless. I cannot support her in any way and she is not willing to get help because she constantly lies.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 09:53     Subject: Re:what happens to my brother when my parents die?
Anonymous wrote:The standard for involuntary commitment is danger to self and others, as it should be. Imagine if we could force people to basically be incarcerated because we think they're not living the way they should? In this person's case he's got a place to live, isn't being violent, and his next of kin want things to stay the way they are.

It's a slam-dunk case for watching, waiting, staying in the loop and positioning oneself to get benefits when he no longer has the option of a free ride with the parents.


But it's no slam dunk that the OP's brother will ever accept beneifits at all. He believes he doesn't need anything because he's rich! If he believes that now, it won't necessarily change his tune when mom and dad die. Instead, he might just decide OP is another person who's out to get him because she keeps insisting he needs help he doesn't need, because he's rich.

It's so easy on here to say "Just wait and watch and get him benefits later when your folks die." Not so easy for OP to do.

As for OP staying in the loop, I would wager that the parents aren't telling OP the half of brother's statements and beliefs, because they just don't want to deal with the fact he's delusional, and sadly they are trying to live out their lives just keeping their heads down and muddling through. "His next of kin want things to stay the way they are" because that's what exhausted, emotionally beaten people do--just live with the situation as long as he's not violent or volatile. They aren't letting "things stay the way they are" out of some kind of acceptance or approval of his mental illness, or because their own lives with him are happy.

OP, I really feel for you. When mental illness is like your brother's, it is, as other posts have noted, nearly impossible to force help on anyone. Whatever happens, please heed the person who posted earlier that you should never, ever have your brother live with you. Imagine trying to "get him on his feet" and then he won't leave, or worse, he decides what's yours really should be his, or he decides you or your family are part of the persecution against him. Help, yes, but don't let him under your roof, for your family's sake.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 08:30     Subject: Re:what happens to my brother when my parents die?
The standard for involuntary commitment is danger to self and others, as it should be. Imagine if we could force people to basically be incarcerated because we think they're not living the way they should? In this person's case he's got a place to live, isn't being violent, and his next of kin want things to stay the way they are.

It's a slam-dunk case for watching, waiting, staying in the loop and positioning oneself to get benefits when he no longer has the option of a free ride with the parents.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 07:11     Subject: Re:what happens to my brother when my parents die?
Anonymous wrote:Isn't that the truth. My sibling has been hospitalized many times involuntarily - and is smart enough to know that if he does not give permission for the hospital to speak to anyone (including family) then no one knows the real story of how messed up he is. I have called, written letters - no release, no communication. Most broken system I know and there is no way to get people like him the help they need. 3-7 day maximum and back to square one.
what country has a system that works for the mentally ill who don't want treatment?

He is smart enough to not want treatment, then the only option that would be to FORCE him against his will and treat him involuntarily until he gets better. And with mental illness that you describe, the majority will only get a little Better.

So what you are talking about is forced institutionalization of people who are rational and capable of refusing.

The system is not "broken" so much as your sibling is atypical and unable to function in a free society. If you have a solution that will WORK That does not involve the state treating him like a toddler at great expense, I'm all ears.
Anonymous
Post 10/20/2015 07:00     Subject: Re:what happens to my brother when my parents die?
More common situation than you think. Don't let him with you because it is quite 100% (not 99.9%, but 100%) obvious that taking him in is just going to drag you, your spouse, and progeny with him, financially. In a worst case, but quite conceivable, scenario, I can see him killing himself after your parents die, but taking people with him he finally gets fed up with the "unjust" people that have held him back for all these decades. I'm not being paranoid either. If he has nothing to live for AND a beef with people, why not take people out. If he's as delusional as you say, what if he decides your children don't need to suffer with adulthood in this horrible unfair world? What if he brings illegal narcotics or whatever substance he abuses casually into your home? What if he makes some enemies? He is a financial black hole, and God help you if he gets hurt in your house or gets hospitalized while living with you. Is he a semi - functional (a true functional drunk has a job) drunk by the way? If he's not already, he eventually will be a substance abuser, because his path allows for nothing else.

Besides, if you take him in, what are you REALLY doing different from what your foolhardy parents currently are doing? He will simply take everything you hand him, and more. You have accused your parents of enabling him, but are suggesting you will follow their same plan. Honestly you don't even sound that close to him, and this sounds more like a theoretical moral obligation of somebody trying to be "caring".

If he argues with you, you gotta put your foot down respectfully and say "I love you and respect your opinion, but I disagree and you need to sink or swim on your own."

IF he is capable of surviving on his own and turning it around, he will ONLY do so after he hits rock bottom. The only question is whether he will hit rock bottom (a) quickly on his own or (b) after burning through and badly a damaging you and your family. It is unfair to your children and spouse to put them through this.
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2015 17:38     Subject: what happens to my brother when my parents die?
Anonymous wrote:SSDI really is peanuts for somebody with very little work history and at his age. Also, there are rules about the lapse of time between leaving your job and applying. I'm sorry I can't remember the rules, but it's worth googling.


Its not about it being peanuts. He needs an income to get into housing - either low income or for mental health issues. It doesn't matter what the income is, it just has to be income. You can be working with very low income and still get SSDI.
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2015 17:20     Subject: what happens to my brother when my parents die?
SSDI really is peanuts for somebody with very little work history and at his age. Also, there are rules about the lapse of time between leaving your job and applying. I'm sorry I can't remember the rules, but it's worth googling.