Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don't raise your child Jewish b/c of a bar mitzvah? Ridiculous. Have a small luncheon of something simple at the temple afterward - a nice oneg.

More accurately, PP is not raising their child Jewish because of the bar mitzvah PARTY. Which is not actually a religious requirement.

I'm the original Pp who said this is why I'm not raising my children jewish--it was in response to the person who said you couldn't possibly throw a decent party for under 10k. It's that snooty attitude that I'm trying to stay away from. Not that all Jews act or talk like that, but the whole ridiculious bar mitzvah/bat mitzvah scene is absolutely about being showy and ostentatious. Sure you could have a low key affair with just cake and no DJ party after the service, but at what social cost to your child who is invited to these fancy shin digs and can't live up to the others or reciprocate?

My family were poor immigrants in the 70s and tried to join a synagogue and were turned away because they could not afford it. Our family is not the only ones who had experienced this, we have heard similar stories, so forgive me if it leaves a bad taste in my mouth towards this religion (and most religions, actually). I know now they have "scholarships" for families who can't afford them, but why all the money anyway? Why is belonging to a synagogue about fees/money and tickets?

I am Catholic, but my DH is Jewish. We have often discussed how ridiculous it is to have what is essentially a wedding-like reception for a 13-year old. In my religion, when a child makes his or her First Communion or gets confirmed (rites of passage that are just as significant in our religion as a Bar/Bat Mitzvah is in the Jewish faith), it is usually followed by a simple lunch at the parents' house with a sheet cake, balloons, streamers, kids playing in the backyard, and simple gifts. I don't see why anything beyond this is necessary, and my Jewish husband agrees, but perhaps someone can educate me. Why not just have someething simple like this OP? As long it is fun for your child, who cares what anyone else thinks!

I am pretty tired of Catholics comparing first communion and confirmation to a Bar/Bat Mitvah. They are not even close to the same thing. A Bar/Bat Mitzvah is a ceremony that usually is for one child only (very occasionally is it done in groups) and involves years of schooling and Hebrew language lessons. The child has to lead 30-60 minute long service that includes reading from both the Torah and Bible in Hebrew and giving a written speech about the event. First communion and confirmation is done in groups and the kids don't lead the service.

In addition, in many communities, Catholic families spend an extreme amount of money dressing their little girl like a bride for her first communion. What's that all about?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don't raise your child Jewish b/c of a bar mitzvah? Ridiculous. Have a small luncheon of something simple at the temple afterward - a nice oneg.

More accurately, PP is not raising their child Jewish because of the bar mitzvah PARTY. Which is not actually a religious requirement.

I'm the original Pp who said this is why I'm not raising my children jewish--it was in response to the person who said you couldn't possibly throw a decent party for under 10k. It's that snooty attitude that I'm trying to stay away from. Not that all Jews act or talk like that, but the whole ridiculious bar mitzvah/bat mitzvah scene is absolutely about being showy and ostentatious. Sure you could have a low key affair with just cake and no DJ party after the service, but at what social cost to your child who is invited to these fancy shin digs and can't live up to the others or reciprocate?

My family were poor immigrants in the 70s and tried to join a synagogue and were turned away because they could not afford it. Our family is not the only ones who had experienced this, we have heard similar stories, so forgive me if it leaves a bad taste in my mouth towards this religion (and most religions, actually). I know now they have "scholarships" for families who can't afford them, but why all the money anyway? Why is belonging to a synagogue about fees/money and tickets?

I am Catholic, but my DH is Jewish. We have often discussed how ridiculous it is to have what is essentially a wedding-like reception for a 13-year old. In my religion, when a child makes his or her First Communion or gets confirmed (rites of passage that are just as significant in our religion as a Bar/Bat Mitzvah is in the Jewish faith), it is usually followed by a simple lunch at the parents' house with a sheet cake, balloons, streamers, kids playing in the backyard, and simple gifts. I don't see why anything beyond this is necessary, and my Jewish husband agrees, but perhaps someone can educate me. Why not just have someething simple like this OP? As long it is fun for your child, who cares what anyone else thinks!

Another idea is to skip the whole thing and instead do a trip to Israel and BM there.

http://goisrael.com/tourism_eng/tourist%20information/jewish%20themes/Pages/bar-bat%20mitzvah%20in%20israel.aspx

Another idea is to skip the whole thing and instead do a trip to Israel and BM there.

10k is nothing. I pay over 5k a year for our family to be members and kids to attend religious school. It's 5k per year from k-7th grade and then the last year an additional 10k-75k for the party.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel the same way as the pp. I would love to be part of the community, but being shaken down for dues, tuition, and then having to humiliate my kids by throwing a shabby bar mitzvah. No thanks. I think American Jews need to rethink their approach to all this.

Agreed.
These extravagant parties are ridiculous in their opulence and make a mockery of the religious aspect of a Bar/Bat Mitzvah.

I am in my late 30s and have never been to an extravagant bar mitzvah. All have been very low key. Can you please post what shut you belong to where people feel they need to throw extravagant parties?

Synagogues in Rockville, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, Potomac, DC, N. NJ, Long Island, NY, Philadelphia (Chestnut Hill) and Main Line ...
I am in my late 40s and I have only been to extravagant parties for bar and bat mitzvahs. The services are usually lovely full of tradition and spirituality. But the parties that follow are embarrassing in their extravagance and focus on spending.

I am the pp you were responding to. I belong to a shul in Potomac. The nicest bar mitzvah I ever went to and I have been to at least 30 in my life, was at a country club but it was not outrageous or extravagant. The majority were very low key. Mostly fun parties for teenagers.

My experience with bar and bat mitzvahs have been very different than the PP even in Potomac. Most I have attended have been very extravagant affairs. Another trend I have noticed more recently and not just in the MD area is that a growing number of the invitees forgo attending the actual service in the synagogue and opt to attend just the party afterwards. Simply awful and hypocritical to what this Jewish life milestone really stands for.

The size of the party and the kosher aspect make this more challenging. Do you have a sense of how many kids from the class will actually come? We had good success with keeping things reasonable at Maggianos, which has party rooms that you don't need much if any decorations (a few balloons would be totally fine) and the costs are all in for food and drinks/space/serving, etc. Catering a real meal tends to really run up the costs. Would a vegetarian menu work for the kosher issues?

BTW, we are at Micah for the PP who asked specifically about Temple Micah. Have been to many BMs for there. They tend to be less elaborate than WHC or Sinai but totally run the gamut. I have been to country club parties, but also kids parties at the local rec center with pizza and a DJ. Some people just do lunch after services and that's it. Have also seen people do the upstairs room at Guapos mexican food. No pressure from the Micah community, although I think people often feel pressure from their own families of origin to do what is "expected" in their family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel the same way as the pp. I would love to be part of the community, but being shaken down for dues, tuition, and then having to humiliate my kids by throwing a shabby bar mitzvah. No thanks. I think American Jews need to rethink their approach to all this.

Agreed.
These extravagant parties are ridiculous in their opulence and make a mockery of the religious aspect of a Bar/Bat Mitzvah.

I am in my late 30s and have never been to an extravagant bar mitzvah. All have been very low key. Can you please post what shut you belong to where people feel they need to throw extravagant parties?

Synagogues in Rockville, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, Potomac, DC, N. NJ, Long Island, NY, Philadelphia (Chestnut Hill) and Main Line ...
I am in my late 40s and I have only been to extravagant parties for bar and bat mitzvahs. The services are usually lovely full of tradition and spirituality. But the parties that follow are embarrassing in their extravagance and focus on spending.

I am the pp you were responding to. I belong to a shul in Potomac. The nicest bar mitzvah I ever went to and I have been to at least 30 in my life, was at a country club but it was not outrageous or extravagant. The majority were very low key. Mostly fun parties for teenagers.

It's called Martins crosswinds in college park

Look at martins west they are in Baltimore and college park it's a bundled deal of food and pretty venue. You should definitely be able to do it under 10k for kosher food with them.

PP here: In our case, venue and food and drinks were bundled. $30 for kids, $85 for adults (we had a open bar).
We also spent/wasted 2K on decorations, and spent 2K on the photographer.

I am a PP. My DD is 13, and has been invited to a slew of Bar/Bat Mitzvahs this year.

I am noticing that, for the kids at least, there seems to be a scaling back -- at least in the conservative parties. They have a party for the kids in the evening. Some are extravagant, some are at houses (i.e., not extravagant).

In our case, we had family pressure to go nice, but the family paid the bill (or 12K of the 18K).

My estimates are, have recently thrown one:

DJ: $1500
Venue: Varies (in our case, it was bundled -- a room in a restaurant). But figure a social hall in a community center would b 500 - 1000. (won't be kosher, though).
Food: For kids, about $25/person. Adults: 50/person.
Drinks: Alcohol: $20/person -- but you can skip it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don't raise your child Jewish b/c of a bar mitzvah? Ridiculous. Have a small luncheon of something simple at the temple afterward - a nice oneg.

More accurately, PP is not raising their child Jewish because of the bar mitzvah PARTY. Which is not actually a religious requirement.

No I am not raising my child in any religion because it is a money-making scam that causes hatred, pain, bigotry and 90% of all wars in the world are religion-based. People only like their kind and don't accept others. My parents practically disowned me because I married a non-Jewish man. They were embarrassed. I hated everything about Hebrew school growing up. It didn't make me a better person and it actually showed me how much hatred Jewish people have for non-Jewish people. My husband said the same thing about Bible School. They teach love and kindness but only under their rules with people of their kind. If my kids decide they want to practice a religion at anytime, I will be behind them 100%. But I will not force it onto them. But yes, the parties are part of the religion whether they are a requirement or not. The parties are worse than the old MTV sweet 16 show. It is a show-off on who can outdo each other.

NP here and I feel exactly the same way. My parents weren't too bad about me marrying a non-Jew because my brothers broke that barrier before me but I do feel that most religion is a money grab. Bar/Bat Mitvah celebrations are obnoxious and miss the point entirely. There is nothing on earth that made me more miserable than attending Hebrew school 3 days each week, year after year.

Me too with all of this. I never really felt part of the Jewish community or related to Judaism/Jewish culture growing up. As a young adult i didn't even identify myself as Jewish. Eventually joined a Protestant church that i feel is welcoming and a good fit for me. Yes my family sort of flipped out. My sister basically disowned me. This did nothing to change my mind, in fact it sealed the deal. The Bar Mitzvah culture here is OBSCENE. $10,000 freaking dollars for a party and that is a low-ball amount. No thanks. I'd rather contribute what i can to my church and feel good about where the money goes (serving the entire community, not the Christian community exclusively). And fwiw my kids love Sunday School. Twin 16 year olds and a 12 year old.
I agree with the pp who said she didn't think it was right to force a religion on her kids. But we really do enjoy our church, nothing is forced and they are welcome to choose what they want later. I am not opposed to religion in general. I just need to be able to get something out of it and Jewish was not my thing. I had no idea i had company with this! So glad to know i am not a freak!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you don't raise your child Jewish b/c of a bar mitzvah? Ridiculous. Have a small luncheon of something simple at the temple afterward - a nice oneg.

More accurately, PP is not raising their child Jewish because of the bar mitzvah PARTY. Which is not actually a religious requirement.

I'm the original Pp who said this is why I'm not raising my children jewish--it was in response to the person who said you couldn't possibly throw a decent party for under 10k. It's that snooty attitude that I'm trying to stay away from. Not that all Jews act or talk like that, but the whole ridiculious bar mitzvah/bat mitzvah scene is absolutely about being showy and ostentatious. Sure you could have a low key affair with just cake and no DJ party after the service, but at what social cost to your child who is invited to these fancy shin digs and can't live up to the others or reciprocate?

My family were poor immigrants in the 70s and tried to join a synagogue and were turned away because they could not afford it. Our family is not the only ones who had experienced this, we have heard similar stories, so forgive me if it leaves a bad taste in my mouth towards this religion (and most religions, actually). I know now they have "scholarships" for families who can't afford them, but why all the money anyway? Why is belonging to a synagogue about fees/money and tickets?

I am sorry you had such a negative experience. That truly came at a cost. You now think that Jews are focused on money and parties when this simply is not the case for a lot of Jews. If you had gone to a nice synagogue and received a proper Jewish education, your point of view would be entirely different. It is a shame that you let this one experience take you away from a warm, generous and vibrant community.

But don't you see? That community rejected my family? They tried to give their children a religious education but were turned away.

I have many wonderful Jewish friends, and of course many relatives who are practicing, and I love and respect them all as individuals. But the religion as a whole? Not for me and never will be. Maybe if they were so welcoming they would frown upon the aggrandizement of these bar mitzvahs.

My congregation encourages simple events without extravagance. There are people who have more money who want to spend it, but there are plenty of families in my congregation that have thrown kids only parties or simple parties for their familiy and friends. I am sorry your family felt rejected. If only they had gone somewhere else more welcoming, not that they would necessarily know where that was. This is a great loss for the Jewish community. Please know there are many congregations that are very welcoming and willing to work with you if you can't afford dues and tuition. Some congregations have very poor leadership.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel the same way as the pp. I would love to be part of the community, but being shaken down for dues, tuition, and then having to humiliate my kids by throwing a shabby bar mitzvah. No thanks. I think American Jews need to rethink their approach to all this.

Agreed.
These extravagant parties are ridiculous in their opulence and make a mockery of the religious aspect of a Bar/Bat Mitzvah.

I am in my late 30s and have never been to an extravagant bar mitzvah. All have been very low key. Can you please post what shut you belong to where people feel they need to throw extravagant parties?

Synagogues in Rockville, Chevy Chase, Bethesda, Potomac, DC, N. NJ, Long Island, NY, Philadelphia (Chestnut Hill) and Main Line ...
I am in my late 40s and I have only been to extravagant parties for bar and bat mitzvahs. The services are usually lovely full of tradition and spirituality. But the parties that follow are embarrassing in their extravagance and focus on spending.