Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As they get older, they seem more and more childlike as they pursue their hobbies and their self absorption unless they branch out into something really meaningful. They think that stories about kids are boring, but the inner details of their hobbies -- the white throated thrust! -- are even more boring. And their obsession with their pets ...

I agree with most of this. I find that they have a certain immaturity that comes with never having to be in a position to be responsible for someone else. I think their decision making skills are less developed as are their conflict negotiation skills.

Completely disagree, and want to point out that caring for your own child is hardly the only situation in which you could be responsible for someone else, or develop decision-making and conflict-negotiation skills.

Anonymous wrote:As they get older, they seem more and more childlike as they pursue their hobbies and their self absorption unless they branch out into something really meaningful. They think that stories about kids are boring, but the inner details of their hobbies -- the white throated thrust! -- are even more boring. And their obsession with their pets ...

I agree with most of this. I find that they have a certain immaturity that comes with never having to be in a position to be responsible for someone else. I think their decision making skills are less developed as are their conflict negotiation skills.

I don't see women without kids in any special way. Why would I? Some people have kids and some don't. I don't care.

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I weren't able to have kids. (We tried everything and then some.) At work, and in our circle of friends, the women with kids really have a sort of lovely community of sorts. How do women like this see women without kids?

With envy.

Like you are a potential friend because I want non-mom friends to hang out and talk with. Love my kids, but geesh I dont want to talk kids in my spare time. Enough. I'd rather hear about my friend's fabulous vacations and awesome fancy restaurant meals.

My best friends are non-moms!

I see them as having a lot of free time and disposable income, compared to me.

They probably just have more shared life experience to bond over. Do you really want to hear about breast milk diaper blow outs, sleep solutions, and how to take away the binky with minimal disruption? Potty training advice? Delivery war stories?

Anonymous wrote:As they get older, they seem more and more childlike as they pursue their hobbies and their self absorption unless they branch out into something really meaningful. They think that stories about kids are boring, but the inner details of their hobbies -- the white throated thrust! -- are even more boring. And their obsession with their pets ...

I think it's a toss up, and I have a kid.

I see them as lucky and as having a more interesting life than mine. I enjoy talking with and hanging out with non-moms. Many of my mom-relationships don't progress because we have nothing in common other than our kids being at the same school or being close in age. If there's someone that you feel like you click with, I'd pursue it whether they have kids or not.

Anonymous wrote:^^^^pp here and want to add: it's hard not to be self-absorbed if you don't have kids.

Ah, yes. Social workers, nurses, pediatric life specialists,nursing home attendants, teachers in inner city schools....they are all very self-absorbed unless they have kids. After all, being a parent is the ONLY way one can learn to think beyond his or herself.

Anonymous wrote:The women I know without kids fall generally into two camps, with overlap occurring in some situations: (a) never wanted kids or was/is on the fence about it, or (b) has a crappy partner/ no partner.

Frankly - and I know I'm going to be flamed for this - I frequently see women who didn't have kids because they didn't want them as being self-absorbed (same goes for men). I have literally had a conversation with an unmarried girlfriend with no kids say she was worried about what having kids would do to her body. Some men and women without kids just seem to have arrested development - concerned with appearance, working out, dating, going out, and their career. Ultimately, this does not seem like a very fulfilling way to live (but that might just be the jealousy talking ).

Women and men who want kids but either haven't found the right partner or deal with infertility come across differently. There's more of an empathy, a softness there that I don't generally see in the camp described above.

That is like the a, b, c of some childfree couples. a)The group that can't find ANYBODY to be with. b)The group that are so self absorbed, c) and the group that had infertility. Some people choose child free and really live to the fullest, but others seem to be like a tree that has grown all up into itself. Just around and around the same issues over and over. There is also d) the group that had some trauma in their youth that scarred them forever. One friend told me "I buried two sisters, and I know the pain that children can bring ..."

As they get older, they seem more and more childlike as they pursue their hobbies and their self absorption unless they branch out into something really meaningful. They think that stories about kids are boring, but the inner details of their hobbies -- the white throated thrust! -- are even more boring. And their obsession with their pets ...

Anonymous wrote:I don't think differently of women who don't have kids. What bothers me is when women feel the need to justify their choice not to have kids and put down mothers and children in the process. Parenthood isn't just sleepless nights, dirty diapers, extra strain on your finances and time and kids challenging your authority and taking you for granted. It's definitely a sacrifice and difficult choice, but the choice is worth it for many of us.

+1! I don't judge women who don't have kids. I judge women who judge me for having kids, especially the ones who ask, "why did you have so many?"

Come on, I only had three. I don't judge you for having none.

BTW, the "choice" aspect varies widely because not only is infertility a problem, but adoption is a multistep, often multi-year process that sometimes potential parents finally give up on. If this happened to you, OP, I sympathize because I have friends who went through the same frustration.

I see them as lucky!!

Seriously, I think that there are pros and cons to being child-free or having them; each situation misses out on something and each situation gains something too. I don't think people who choose not to have kids are selfish; I think they're smart for listening to themselves and not giving in to societal pressure. I have a sister who's 39 and dating a 44 year old. Neither has been married or has kids and she feels that she's getting to the point where the ship has sailed for having kids. Sure, people have them at the age and older, but she's thought about what it'd be like for her and her boyfriend and she doesn't want them. She loves my kids a ton and is very involved in their lives. I don't feel sad for her, but rather envious at times.

My prekid self didn't want kids. I used to feel sorry for the women I would see out at the stores trying to get a little shopping done with whining, screaming, crying kids. No thanks! I would go home and see neighbor kids outside playing and making noise and I would be happy that I could sleep in and that someone else had to deal with them. I liked kids well enough, I just didn't want the chore of raising them.

Then dh and I had kids and I can't even imagine life without them now. Life is so much more full now. There are times when I wonder what it would be like to have no college tuitions to worry about or what it would be like to have the freedom to be responsible only for myself again. But I wouldn't trade the family that I have built with dh for anything. Our kids are awesome, fun, adventurous people - a joy. Holidays, vacations, weekends, family outings are more fun and meaningful with our kids.

So in answer to the Op. I think I look at women who chose not to have kids with a combination of envy (for their freedom) and respect (for knowing what they want in life) but also a sense that they are really missing out. I'm sure that they probably look at women who chose to have kids with a similar amount of envy/respect/sense of not knowing what they're missing out on.

Since this is an anonymous forum I'll come and say it - I feel sorry for women without children. Children are truly life's best thing.

However, in real life I have many childless friends and I treat them exactly the same and never make remarks etc. I'm sure the friendships have suffered though bc having kids is an enormous step change but I do my best to stay friends. And like this post shows, one never knows WHY people don't have kids. Maybe they really wanted to and were not able to, so it's best not to speculate or judge.