jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are being deliberately obtuse and don't be so quick to accuse people of bigotry because they disagree with you.

None of the items you listed in the last paragraph would bother me. But someone who is a conservative, observant Muslim would seek to implement other aspects of Islam that would be unacceptable in the US. Fortunately he would be prevented from doing so by Congress and the courts but that would not prevent divisiveness.

As to what specific things he may seek to do if he follows one of the more conservative variations of Islam, just check out what happens in some Muslim countries and see if they would be acceptable in the US.

If you ever get a chance - and can find it - check out what Kenneth Kaunda once said about Islam and why it is so immensely appealing to Africans. Kaunda was a Christian.

If you espouse a bigoted position, don't get upset when you are identified as a bigot. If an individual of any religion would seek to implement any policy that is unacceptable in the US, I assume that individual would not be elected in the first place. We are not talking about people who hold positions that are unacceptable in America. We are talking about people who are simply members of a specific religion. You seem to believe that all Muslims are the same and, therefore, all of them are disqualified to be President. How is that position not bigoted?

The anti-Muslim position here almost entirely boils down to "Muslims elsewhere are bad, therefore all Muslims are bad". Again, explain why that is not a bigoted position?

BTW, the five things I listed that you said would not bother you are basically the only things about which all Muslims agree. If you would rise above your prejudice, you would understand that there is nothing inherently disqualifying about Islam.

I am not able to decide whether you are just being stubborn or if you are just stunningly ignorant about some of the realities of Islam - or more specifically how some Muslims choose to interpret and practise their faith.

I have lived in the Middle East and still have consulting work there as well as other countries Muslim countries. If you seriously believe that all Muslims consider Islam boils down to the items you listed, you really are quite clueless. Islam as practised in Saudi Arabia is different than that in Malaysia. Islam as practised in Iran is different than that in Pakistan. It is quite amazing that you would make statements that a rudimentary degree of due diligence would show is not accurate. What version of Islam do you think ISIS is following? Why are the Sunni and Shia at each others throats and have been for centuries?

I did not say that it would be unacceptable to me to have a Muslim as president but as I explained any such individual would need to cross a higher hurdle before I would vote for him It is nothing to do with bigotry - it has to do with recognizing reality. For someone who professes to be informed about Islam I have to say your knowledge is either very limited or is entirely influenced by your political stance on issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has Carson even been paying attention? I been watching Fox News for the past six years and am pretty sure they've been reporting that we've had a Muslim as a President this entire time.

We certainly have. It's been one hell of a ride too!

F*ck Obama and his Sharia law following Caliphate!

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't want a member of the Westboro Baptist Church to be President. Does that make me a bigot?

No. There's no issue if you object to a member of the WBC being elected. The same would be true if you were objecting to a candidate who was a member of the Salafi movement. You slip into ignorant bigotry by advancing the absurd proposition that no Christian, no Muslim or no Mormon should hold public office.

Anonymous wrote:Has Carson even been paying attention? I been watching Fox News for the past six years and am pretty sure they've been reporting that we've had a Muslim as a President this entire time.

We certainly have. It's been one hell of a ride too!

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't want a member of the Westboro Baptist Church to be President. Does that make me a bigot?

No. That is a very specific group of which all members very similar beliefs (not to mention DNA). If you said that you didn't want a Baptist to be President, that would be bigoted. I can't believe that you are smart enough to type a sentence in English, yet need this explained to you.

I wouldn't want a member of the Westboro Baptist Church to be President. Does that make me a bigot?

Anonymous wrote:You are being deliberately obtuse and don't be so quick to accuse people of bigotry because they disagree with you.

None of the items you listed in the last paragraph would bother me. But someone who is a conservative, observant Muslim would seek to implement other aspects of Islam that would be unacceptable in the US. Fortunately he would be prevented from doing so by Congress and the courts but that would not prevent divisiveness.

As to what specific things he may seek to do if he follows one of the more conservative variations of Islam, just check out what happens in some Muslim countries and see if they would be acceptable in the US.

If you ever get a chance - and can find it - check out what Kenneth Kaunda once said about Islam and why it is so immensely appealing to Africans. Kaunda was a Christian.

If you espouse a bigoted position, don't get upset when you are identified as a bigot. If an individual of any religion would seek to implement any policy that is unacceptable in the US, I assume that individual would not be elected in the first place. We are not talking about people who hold positions that are unacceptable in America. We are talking about people who are simply members of a specific religion. You seem to believe that all Muslims are the same and, therefore, all of them are disqualified to be President. How is that position not bigoted?

The anti-Muslim position here almost entirely boils down to "Muslims elsewhere are bad, therefore all Muslims are bad". Again, explain why that is not a bigoted position?

BTW, the five things I listed that you said would not bother you are basically the only things about which all Muslims agree. If you would rise above your prejudice, you would understand that there is nothing inherently disqualifying about Islam.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:A Muslim candidate for President would be an American, born in America. Therefore, I'm not sure what it matters how Muslim rulers are treating non-Muslims in other countries. But, if treatment of minority religions in other countries is used to determine the eligibility for the office of President in the US, doesn't it pretty much rule out Jewish candidates? Shouldn't Bernie Sanders (who I personally love), be ruled out because Israel has never and probably will never have a Christian or Muslim Prime Minister?

I am still waiting for an example of rule by a Seventh Day Adventist so that we can determine Ben Carson's own eligibility. Carson questioned the compatibility of Islam with the Constitution while explicitly stating an unconstitutional position. Therefore, I'd say that by his own criteria, Carson in ineligible regardless of his religion.

jewishness is different because jewishness can refer to ethnicity and not religious practice.

an athiest jew is fine. a jew that's observant and behaves like schumer and liberman -no thanks.

Atheist Jew? Isn't that a bit of an oxyMORON?

Almost 40% of Israeli Jews are atheist or agnostic. Since this days is from 1993 you can be certain the number is up by another 15% due to the subsequent influx of soviet Jews. http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles2/howrelisr.htm

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:
Can you state specifically which polices a Muslim candidate in the US is likely to expose based on her religion that you would oppose? Is it the praying five times a day that you believe would be disqualifying? The chance that the President might go on the Haj? Is it the charity that the President would demonstrate? The fasting? Or, her simple profession of faith? I am having a really difficult time understanding why all Muslims should be unconstitutionally barred from the Presidency.

NP here

I'll give a simple example. Muslims due to religious reasons do not consume pork. If they supported a policy banning or restricting pork products I would be opposed. It really boils down to how willing said person is to imposing their believes onto the general public. Nothing wrong with them practicing their believes as an individual. There is only an issue when/if they impose their religious beliefs onto the general public.

Jews have the same restriction. Do you oppose Jewish presidents? Catholics are not supposed to eat meat on Friday. If you like to eat meat on Friday, do you oppose Catholic presidents?

Again, if an individual candidate espouses positions that you oppose, don't vote for him. What I don't understand is that Ben Carson and many posters here oppose a Muslim candidate regardless of any political positions that candidate had simply due to her religion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:A Muslim candidate for President would be an American, born in America. Therefore, I'm not sure what it matters how Muslim rulers are treating non-Muslims in other countries. But, if treatment of minority religions in other countries is used to determine the eligibility for the office of President in the US, doesn't it pretty much rule out Jewish candidates? Shouldn't Bernie Sanders (who I personally love), be ruled out because Israel has never and probably will never have a Christian or Muslim Prime Minister?

I am still waiting for an example of rule by a Seventh Day Adventist so that we can determine Ben Carson's own eligibility. Carson questioned the compatibility of Islam with the Constitution while explicitly stating an unconstitutional position. Therefore, I'd say that by his own criteria, Carson in ineligible regardless of his religion.

jewishness is different because jewishness can refer to ethnicity and not religious practice.

an athiest jew is fine. a jew that's observant and behaves like schumer and liberman -no thanks.

Atheist Jew? Isn't that a bit of an oxyMORON?

no - it's like being an athiest anglo or athiest black or athiest asian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_atheists_and_agnostics

So a Jew is okay so long as he's not too Jewey?

Anonymous wrote:Has Carson even been paying attention? I been watching Fox News for the past six years and am pretty sure they've been reporting that we've had a Muslim as a President this entire time.

Lol

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:A Muslim candidate for President would be an American, born in America. Therefore, I'm not sure what it matters how Muslim rulers are treating non-Muslims in other countries. But, if treatment of minority religions in other countries is used to determine the eligibility for the office of President in the US, doesn't it pretty much rule out Jewish candidates? Shouldn't Bernie Sanders (who I personally love), be ruled out because Israel has never and probably will never have a Christian or Muslim Prime Minister?

I am still waiting for an example of rule by a Seventh Day Adventist so that we can determine Ben Carson's own eligibility. Carson questioned the compatibility of Islam with the Constitution while explicitly stating an unconstitutional position. Therefore, I'd say that by his own criteria, Carson in ineligible regardless of his religion.

jewishness is different because jewishness can refer to ethnicity and not religious practice.

an athiest jew is fine. a jew that's observant and behaves like schumer and liberman -no thanks.

Atheist Jew? Isn't that a bit of an oxyMORON?

no - it's like being an athiest anglo or athiest black or athiest asian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_atheists_and_agnostics

Has Carson even been paying attention? I been watching Fox News for the past six years and am pretty sure they've been reporting that we've had a Muslim as a President this entire time.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:
Can you state specifically which polices a Muslim candidate in the US is likely to expose based on her religion that you would oppose? Is it the praying five times a day that you believe would be disqualifying? The chance that the President might go on the Haj? Is it the charity that the President would demonstrate? The fasting? Or, her simple profession of faith? I am having a really difficult time understanding why all Muslims should be unconstitutionally barred from the Presidency.

NP here

I'll give a simple example. Muslims due to religious reasons do not consume pork. If they supported a policy banning or restricting pork products I would be opposed. It really boils down to how willing said person is to imposing their believes onto the general public. Nothing wrong with them practicing their believes as an individual. There is only an issue when/if they impose their religious beliefs onto the general public.

Poor example.
No way in hell such a bill would even make it to the floor.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:A Muslim candidate for President would be an American, born in America. Therefore, I'm not sure what it matters how Muslim rulers are treating non-Muslims in other countries. But, if treatment of minority religions in other countries is used to determine the eligibility for the office of President in the US, doesn't it pretty much rule out Jewish candidates? Shouldn't Bernie Sanders (who I personally love), be ruled out because Israel has never and probably will never have a Christian or Muslim Prime Minister?

I am still waiting for an example of rule by a Seventh Day Adventist so that we can determine Ben Carson's own eligibility. Carson questioned the compatibility of Islam with the Constitution while explicitly stating an unconstitutional position. Therefore, I'd say that by his own criteria, Carson in ineligible regardless of his religion.

jewishness is different because jewishness can refer to ethnicity and not religious practice.

an athiest jew is fine. a jew that's observant and behaves like schumer and liberman -no thanks.

Atheist Jew? Isn't that a bit of an oxyMORON?