Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is dyslexic. I have to pay for very expensive afterschool tutoring that my ADHD kid has to sit through after 7 hours in school.

Is she getting FAPE? According to FCPS she is.

But AAP kids who would do just fine in a regular class with pull outs is apparently a huge injustice?

Please. These parents of high academic achievers are the most asinine, arrogant people in the world.

Absolutely agree. Why our public school system is paying for a program for mostly mainstream, average kids - the vast majority of whom have no special needs whatsoever - is beyond me. Oh wait: it's because those parents demand a special program for their kids and FCPS is can't seem to stand up to them and make clear that this is a PUBLIC school system. Special services should be reserved for kids who actually have special needs.

There are more gen ed parents than all the AAP parents combined. If the true root of this inequality is the AAP parent, then why aren't you all more organized and vocal about getting improved curricula for ge classes?

I always wonder at these statements as well. The claims that AAP exists because of parental demands does not ring true for me. If all could get all I demanded, I would demand

1) differientiation up to full time Level 4 at every school so kids could stay in their neighborhood schools.
2) smaller class sizes
3) newer, state of the art facilities
4) Masters degrees for every teacher
5) More recess time and shaded playgrounds
6) Organic, locally sourced cafeteria food

Ok, AAP parents, let's demand all these things! I'm sure since FCPC is so subserveient to us, they will do all that we ask!

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is dyslexic. I have to pay for very expensive afterschool tutoring that my ADHD kid has to sit through after 7 hours in school.

Is she getting FAPE? According to FCPS she is.

But AAP kids who would do just fine in a regular class with pull outs is apparently a huge injustice?

Please. These parents of high academic achievers are the most asinine, arrogant people in the world.

Absolutely agree. Why our public school system is paying for a program for mostly mainstream, average kids - the vast majority of whom have no special needs whatsoever - is beyond me. Oh wait: it's because those parents demand a special program for their kids and FCPS is can't seem to stand up to them and make clear that this is a PUBLIC school system. Special services should be reserved for kids who actually have special needs.

There are more gen ed parents than all the AAP parents combined. If the true root of this inequality is the AAP parent, then why aren't you all more organized and vocal about getting improved curricula for ge classes?

I always wonder at these statements as well. The claims that AAP exists because of parental demands does not ring true for me. If all could get all I demanded, I would demand

1) differientiation up to full time Level 4 at every school so kids could stay in their neighborhood schools.
2) smaller class sizes
3) newer, state of the art facilities
4) Masters degrees for every teacher
5) More recess time and shaded playgrounds
6) Organic, locally sourced cafeteria food

Ok, AAP parents, let's demand all these things! I'm sure since FCPC is so subserveient to us, they will do all that we ask!

A poster in the VA Public Schools forum found the immersion underreporting.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/45/499756.page#7595706

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FCPS Budget Tool clearly states that closing centers and eliminating busing to centers would save $5.5 million.

The FCPS Budget Tool dollar amounts are reportedly incorrect. For example, immersion costs are underreported and eliminating immersion would actually save much more money than listed.

Reportedly incorrect? Is that wishful thinking, or do you have an actual source for this claim? I'm going with what's on the Budget Tool unless they come back with a correction, which they haven't. AAP costs a lot of money, plain and simple. And so does immersion, for that matter. Both are programs which should be eliminated in favor of beefing up the standard curriculum for all.

FCPS used to be an excellent school system, but isn't anymore. Why? Because it's trying to be all things for all families (except, of course the kids who fall somewhere in the middle, who are always overlooked) and it's just not working. The schools used to emphasize grammar, spelling, and teaching our kids to write correctly, but no more. It's a real shame what's become of FCPS.

There is a post on the FCAG Yahoo Group sharing the latest information from the Budget Task Force chair.

Of course there is. And what they say isn't biased at all.

I don't know if the Budget Task Force chair is biased. (I wouldn't think so.)

[quote=Anonymous]
[/quote]

Say you have a second grader who LOVES to read-- as in, he lets the shower run but doesn't get in because the book is too interesting. And doesn't sleep because he is reading under the covers. Some kids play soccer, he reads. And he has sensory issues, so he doesn't like TV or video games. He reads instead-- for hours a day on weekends unless you take the book away. Some kids do this-- it's their thing. And if they are highly gifted (with ADD hyper focus). And this child goes into K reading chapter books-- because that's what he chooses at the library & bookstore and he taught himself to read. So by 2nd grade, you have a kid reading at an 8th grade level, and it is actually hard to come up with books on his reading level that are subject/age appropriate. Very hard, because He's only 7, even if he reads at a 14 year olds level. Even the last 4 or so Harry Potter books are too scary. So you get lists from his teacher and work with the children's librarian and B&N children's section and discover that you can do a lot worse than things like Treasure Island and Swiss Family Robinson. So no, nobody gave my kids childhood classics and ordered them to read them. But if your child reads a book a day like mine do, then yes, you start suggesting these books, in addition to wimpy kid books (also read). This (with the ADD & sensory issues) is highly unusual, I realize. But it's the kid they handed me at the hospital (and to a lesser extent his sibling). This is also what makes it so hard to educate my kid in a GE classroom- asynchronous development (it's a real thing). I'd rather he spend time playing sports-- better physically & socially. But he hates it and I love him, as he was assigned to me. BTW: for all your sarcasm, We don't do college level philosophy at age 12. It was actually easier beginning around age 10 or so, because he became mature enough to handle a much wider age of YA content (Hunger Games, later Harty Potter, etc). [/quote]

I guess I'm not sure what the point of this post is. Your child loves to read, and at a high level. As does mine. And many other children. My child (now in high school) pretty much educated himself outside of school, merely by reading constantly, anything he could get his hands on. However, I didn't demand a different learning environment for him while at school. He was able to come home and read as much as he pleased. So what exactly is the point of you detailing what your child reads?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FCPS Budget Tool clearly states that closing centers and eliminating busing to centers would save $5.5 million.

The FCPS Budget Tool dollar amounts are reportedly incorrect. For example, immersion costs are underreported and eliminating immersion would actually save much more money than listed.

Reportedly incorrect? Is that wishful thinking, or do you have an actual source for this claim? I'm going with what's on the Budget Tool unless they come back with a correction, which they haven't. AAP costs a lot of money, plain and simple. And so does immersion, for that matter. Both are programs which should be eliminated in favor of beefing up the standard curriculum for all.

FCPS used to be an excellent school system, but isn't anymore. Why? Because it's trying to be all things for all families (except, of course the kids who fall somewhere in the middle, who are always overlooked) and it's just not working. The schools used to emphasize grammar, spelling, and teaching our kids to write correctly, but no more. It's a real shame what's become of FCPS.

There is a post on the FCAG Yahoo Group sharing the latest information from the Budget Task Force chair.

Of course there is. And what they say isn't biased at all.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]So sorry if my response to you're blanket statement that "all parents of academic high achievers are the most asinine arrogant people in the world" seemed obnoxious to you. But talk about people in glass houses throwing stones. Here are some facts:

1. My DC DID spend second grade reading the childhood classics while the teacher taught the other kids stuff he already knew. It's what happens when you put a highly gifted kid who is several years advanced in math and English in a Gen Ed classroom, which is how you think things should be Sorry if his reading seems obnoxious- but what did you want him to do, exactly? His teacher kept saying it would get better in 3rd with AAP. It did. And while it may seem like a Humblebrag to you, for us it was a miserable year with a bored kid who was constantly in trouble (and yes, I know, I should have quit my job and home schooled, we've covered that).

2. Like ESL kids and kids on the spectrum, kids with intellectual disabilities (IQs of 70-80, generally known as IQs In the borderline intellectual functioning-- not my term, take it up with DSM IV) are being mainstreamed through IAs and push in services (one again-- NOT MY TERM) in Gen Ed classes. This is apparently the new alternative to pull outs. Kids with Intellectual Disabilities ARE SPECIAL ED KIDS and qualify for special Ed services. That's not insulting or inflammatory, it's a fact (and really, do you want to argue that kids with BIF don't or shouldn't qualify for special ed)? Special Ed is a broad term. But it's not inflammatory to note that some special Ed kids in mainstream classrooms have low IQ-- because, IRL, some do. some do. Some also have high IQs w/LDs (2e), are on the spectrum, are average IQs with LDs-- the term special Ed is a big umbrella in FCPS. Expecting one teacher to deal with all of these different needs at the same time is unrealistic and unfair. Calling me (the parent of kid who is 2e and therefore is also classed a sped) an ass because I point this out does not make my comment inflammatory.

And I certainly never said or implied anything negative (OR ANYTHING AT ALL) about the IQ of your dyslexic kid.

You are looking so hard for an insult (and going out of your way to make assumptions about and insult others). But NO ONE has insulted you.

So, once again, short and sweet: lots of kids qualify as special Ed. So of these have low IQs.
[/quote]

I'd like to believe you because I was very bored in school as a child and occasionally got into trouble for it and I think an advanced program would have helped me. I now have one child in AAP and I'm very sympathetic to the idea that an advanced program is beneficial but...

You claim your child was reading "the classics" in second grade and that somehow AAP addressed his boredom problems. It so happens that my AAP kid was reading by age three and reading pretty hefty stuff by second grade too (though not strictly or even predominantly "classics"--we let DC chose the books most of the time). AAP was a slight step up in challenge, but not nearly the lifesaver you claim it is and DC has been steadily bored in the program for the last five years. So I suspect that either your child just matured a lot between 2nd and 3rd grade, or that you are the kind of pushy parent who would give him "classics" to read to make sure he stayed "ahead" until he got to AAP, and he either didn't understand them (you can decode really well without understanding) or was so bored by some of them that he acted out (face it, some "classics" are truly boring--we don't even read them as adults).
By the way, my observation over the years is that a lot of AAP kids will also chose to read "Diary of a Wimpy Kid" over Tom Sawyer if given the chance. Perhaps your love of the AAP label has blinded you to the fact that your child still doesn't have an adequate peer group to match his advanced level (I presume at this point he's reading Marx and Nietzche).

With regards to intellectually disabled kids being mainstreamed, the examples you give are unrealistic. A child who is several years behind in vocabulary would be taught in a self-contained classroom. The parents will ask for it as FAPE. If they don't, the school will push for it because the teachers know they can't accommodate the child's needs in their classroom, and remember, [i]all these children need to pass the SOLs[/i]. The school will do almost anything it takes to help the child learn the material for that purpose.
For children with LD who are mainstreamed, the presence of the IA is supposed to tend to those children's needs and they don't impact the level of performance in the class for other children. In fact, my other child with LD often says that the IA in her class only occasionally spends time with her to answer a question or check a written answer and spends the majority of the time helping most of the kids in the class. So the presence of the IA actually helps everyone. The only time the IA serves my kid and at most a couple of other ones exclusively is when they are sent to a separate room for testing since their IEP mandates a small group, quieter setting.



[/quote]

Say you have a second grader who LOVES to read-- as in, he lets the shower run but doesn't get in because the book is too interesting. And doesn't sleep because he is reading under the covers. Some kids play soccer, he reads. And he has sensory issues, so he doesn't like TV or video games. He reads instead-- for hours a day on weekends unless you take the book away. Some kids do this-- it's their thing. And if they are highly gifted (with ADD hyper focus). And this child goes into K reading chapter books-- because that's what he chooses at the library & bookstore and he taught himself to read. So by 2nd grade, you have a kid reading at an 8th grade level, and it is actually hard to come up with books on his reading level that are subject/age appropriate. Very hard, because He's only 7, even if he reads at a 14 year olds level. Even the last 4 or so Harry Potter books are too scary. So you get lists from his teacher and work with the children's librarian and B&N children's section and discover that you can do a lot worse than things like Treasure Island and Swiss Family Robinson. So no, nobody gave my kids childhood classics and ordered them to read them. But if your child reads a book a day like mine do, then yes, you start suggesting these books, in addition to wimpy kid books (also read). This (with the ADD & sensory issues) is highly unusual, I realize. But it's the kid they handed me at the hospital (and to a lesser extent his sibling). This is also what makes it so hard to educate my kid in a GE classroom- asynchronous development (it's a real thing). I'd rather he spend time playing sports-- better physically & socially. But he hates it and I love him, as he was assigned to me. BTW: for all your sarcasm, We don't do college level philosophy at age 12. It was actually easier beginning around age 10 or so, because he became mature enough to handle a much wider age of YA content (Hunger Games, later Harty Potter, etc).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FCPS Budget Tool clearly states that closing centers and eliminating busing to centers would save $5.5 million.

The FCPS Budget Tool dollar amounts are reportedly incorrect. For example, immersion costs are underreported and eliminating immersion would actually save much more money than listed.

Reportedly incorrect? Is that wishful thinking, or do you have an actual source for this claim? I'm going with what's on the Budget Tool unless they come back with a correction, which they haven't. AAP costs a lot of money, plain and simple. And so does immersion, for that matter. Both are programs which should be eliminated in favor of beefing up the standard curriculum for all.

FCPS used to be an excellent school system, but isn't anymore. Why? Because it's trying to be all things for all families (except, of course the kids who fall somewhere in the middle, who are always overlooked) and it's just not working. The schools used to emphasize grammar, spelling, and teaching our kids to write correctly, but no more. It's a real shame what's become of FCPS.

There is a post on the FCAG Yahoo Group sharing the latest information from the Budget Task Force chair.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FCPS Budget Tool clearly states that closing centers and eliminating busing to centers would save $5.5 million.

The FCPS Budget Tool dollar amounts are reportedly incorrect. For example, immersion costs are underreported and eliminating immersion would actually save much more money than listed.

Reportedly incorrect? Is that wishful thinking, or do you have an actual source for this claim? I'm going with what's on the Budget Tool unless they come back with a correction, which they haven't. AAP costs a lot of money, plain and simple. And so does immersion, for that matter. Both are programs which should be eliminated in favor of beefing up the standard curriculum for all.

FCPS used to be an excellent school system, but isn't anymore. Why? Because it's trying to be all things for all families (except, of course the kids who fall somewhere in the middle, who are always overlooked) and it's just not working. The schools used to emphasize grammar, spelling, and teaching our kids to write correctly, but no more. It's a real shame what's become of FCPS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is dyslexic. I have to pay for very expensive afterschool tutoring that my ADHD kid has to sit through after 7 hours in school.

Is she getting FAPE? According to FCPS she is.

But AAP kids who would do just fine in a regular class with pull outs is apparently a huge injustice?

Please. These parents of high academic achievers are the most asinine, arrogant people in the world.

Absolutely agree. Why our public school system is paying for a program for mostly mainstream, average kids - the vast majority of whom have no special needs whatsoever - is beyond me. Oh wait: it's because those parents demand a special program for their kids and FCPS is can't seem to stand up to them and make clear that this is a PUBLIC school system. Special services should be reserved for kids who actually have special needs.

There are more gen ed parents than all the AAP parents combined. If the true root of this inequality is the AAP parent, then why aren't you all more organized and vocal about getting improved curricula for ge classes?

Anonymous wrote:So sorry if my response to you're blanket statement that "all parents of academic high achievers are the most asinine arrogant people in the world" seemed obnoxious to you. But talk about people in glass houses throwing stones. Here are some facts:

1. My DC DID spend second grade reading the childhood classics while the teacher taught the other kids stuff he already knew. It's what happens when you put a highly gifted kid who is several years advanced in math and English in a Gen Ed classroom, which is how you think things should be Sorry if his reading seems obnoxious- but what did you want him to do, exactly? His teacher kept saying it would get better in 3rd with AAP. It did. And while it may seem like a Humblebrag to you, for us it was a miserable year with a bored kid who was constantly in trouble (and yes, I know, I should have quit my job and home schooled, we've covered that).

2. Like ESL kids and kids on the spectrum, kids with intellectual disabilities (IQs of 70-80, generally known as IQs In the borderline intellectual functioning-- not my term, take it up with DSM IV) are being mainstreamed through IAs and push in services (one again-- NOT MY TERM) in Gen Ed classes. This is apparently the new alternative to pull outs. Kids with Intellectual Disabilities ARE SPECIAL ED KIDS and qualify for special Ed services. That's not insulting or inflammatory, it's a fact (and really, do you want to argue that kids with BIF don't or shouldn't qualify for special ed)? Special Ed is a broad term. But it's not inflammatory to note that some special Ed kids in mainstream classrooms have low IQ-- because, IRL, some do. some do. Some also have high IQs w/LDs (2e), are on the spectrum, are average IQs with LDs-- the term special Ed is a big umbrella in FCPS. Expecting one teacher to deal with all of these different needs at the same time is unrealistic and unfair. Calling me (the parent of kid who is 2e and therefore is also classed a sped) an ass because I point this out does not make my comment inflammatory.

And I certainly never said or implied anything negative (OR ANYTHING AT ALL) about the IQ of your dyslexic kid.

You are looking so hard for an insult (and going out of your way to make assumptions about and insult others). But NO ONE has insulted you.

So, once again, short and sweet: lots of kids qualify as special Ed. So of these have low IQs.

Not the PP, but just wanted to respond to the bolded: sure, "lots of kids qualify as Special Ed." However, the kids in AAP who are actually "special ed," or who have LDs, are a tiny minority. Providing centers for otherwise NT kids who should be in General Ed classes is outrageous. And that's what this thread is about, not how to best educate kids with an ACTUAL NEED for Special Ed. No one has even suggested doing away with special ed services. It's AAP which needs some serious paring down, and centers which need to be eliminated in favor of community schools with better enrichment. For ALL, by the way.

Anonymous wrote:So sorry if my response to you're blanket statement that "all parents of academic high achievers are the most asinine arrogant people in the world" seemed obnoxious to you. But talk about people in glass houses throwing stones. Here are some facts:

1. My DC DID spend second grade reading the childhood classics while the teacher taught the other kids stuff he already knew. It's what happens when you put a highly gifted kid who is several years advanced in math and English in a Gen Ed classroom, which is how you think things should be Sorry if his reading seems obnoxious- but what did you want him to do, exactly? His teacher kept saying it would get better in 3rd with AAP. It did. And while it may seem like a Humblebrag to you, for us it was a miserable year with a bored kid who was constantly in trouble (and yes, I know, I should have quit my job and home schooled, we've covered that).

2. Like ESL kids and kids on the spectrum, kids with intellectual disabilities (IQs of 70-80, generally known as IQs In the borderline intellectual functioning-- not my term, take it up with DSM IV) are being mainstreamed through IAs and push in services (one again-- NOT MY TERM) in Gen Ed classes. This is apparently the new alternative to pull outs. Kids with Intellectual Disabilities ARE SPECIAL ED KIDS and qualify for special Ed services. That's not insulting or inflammatory, it's a fact (and really, do you want to argue that kids with BIF don't or shouldn't qualify for special ed)? Special Ed is a broad term. But it's not inflammatory to note that some special Ed kids in mainstream classrooms have low IQ-- because, IRL, some do. some do. Some also have high IQs w/LDs (2e), are on the spectrum, are average IQs with LDs-- the term special Ed is a big umbrella in FCPS. Expecting one teacher to deal with all of these different needs at the same time is unrealistic and unfair. Calling me (the parent of kid who is 2e and therefore is also classed a sped) an ass because I point this out does not make my comment inflammatory.

And I certainly never said or implied anything negative (OR ANYTHING AT ALL) about the IQ of your dyslexic kid.

You are looking so hard for an insult (and going out of your way to make assumptions about and insult others). But NO ONE has insulted you.

So, once again, short and sweet: lots of kids qualify as special Ed. So of these have low IQs.

I'd like to believe you because I was very bored in school as a child and occasionally got into trouble for it and I think an advanced program would have helped me. I now have one child in AAP and I'm very sympathetic to the idea that an advanced program is beneficial but...

You claim your child was reading "the classics" in second grade and that somehow AAP addressed his boredom problems. It so happens that my AAP kid was reading by age three and reading pretty hefty stuff by second grade too (though not strictly or even predominantly "classics"--we let DC chose the books most of the time). AAP was a slight step up in challenge, but not nearly the lifesaver you claim it is and DC has been steadily bored in the program for the last five years. So I suspect that either your child just matured a lot between 2nd and 3rd grade, or that you are the kind of pushy parent who would give him "classics" to read to make sure he stayed "ahead" until he got to AAP, and he either didn't understand them (you can decode really well without understanding) or was so bored by some of them that he acted out (face it, some "classics" are truly boring--we don't even read them as adults).
By the way, my observation over the years is that a lot of AAP kids will also chose to read "Diary of a Wimpy Kid" over Tom Sawyer if given the chance. Perhaps your love of the AAP label has blinded you to the fact that your child still doesn't have an adequate peer group to match his advanced level (I presume at this point he's reading Marx and Nietzche).

With regards to intellectually disabled kids being mainstreamed, the examples you give are unrealistic. A child who is several years behind in vocabulary would be taught in a self-contained classroom. The parents will ask for it as FAPE. If they don't, the school will push for it because the teachers know they can't accommodate the child's needs in their classroom, and remember, all these children need to pass the SOLs. The school will do almost anything it takes to help the child learn the material for that purpose.
For children with LD who are mainstreamed, the presence of the IA is supposed to tend to those children's needs and they don't impact the level of performance in the class for other children. In fact, my other child with LD often says that the IA in her class only occasionally spends time with her to answer a question or check a written answer and spends the majority of the time helping most of the kids in the class. So the presence of the IA actually helps everyone. The only time the IA serves my kid and at most a couple of other ones exclusively is when they are sent to a separate room for testing since their IEP mandates a small group, quieter setting.

Anonymous wrote:The FCPS Budget Tool clearly states that closing centers and eliminating busing to centers would save $5.5 million.

The FCPS Budget Tool dollar amounts are reportedly incorrect. For example, immersion costs are underreported and eliminating immersion would actually save much more money than listed.

Anonymous wrote:My child is dyslexic. I have to pay for very expensive afterschool tutoring that my ADHD kid has to sit through after 7 hours in school.

Is she getting FAPE? According to FCPS she is.

But AAP kids who would do just fine in a regular class with pull outs is apparently a huge injustice?

Please. These parents of high academic achievers are the most asinine, arrogant people in the world.

Absolutely agree. Why our public school system is paying for a program for mostly mainstream, average kids - the vast majority of whom have no special needs whatsoever - is beyond me. Oh wait: it's because those parents demand a special program for their kids and FCPS is can't seem to stand up to them and make clear that this is a PUBLIC school system. Special services should be reserved for kids who actually have special needs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I absolutely won't be signing that petition. It's clear the authors care only about one group of kids - AAP - and will do and say anything to continue the favoritism shown to them. So many families, including my own, have had it with the constant inequity between what is offered to AAP students and what is "offered" Gen Ed students (hint: not nearly enough). General Education students aren't given the option of either staying at their base school or transferring to another school. In fact, they're given no options whatsoever.

Enough with AAP parents complaining that their kids have to "share" a classroom with Gen Ed students, and that the AAP kids "need" a special learning environment. I'm waiting for someone to look around at the non-AAP kids and realize that they, too, might just need a better curriculum and some attention directed their way, and that these students are, for all intensive purposes, no different than the vast majority of "AAP kids". Stop treating General Education students like second-class citizens and start realizing that AAP kids aren't somehow more worthy of extra funds and smaller classes.

As a taxpayer, I would be very happy to see AAP services cut. Enough is enough.

There are plenty of options. Have you considered applying for a magnet school or language immersion school?

Let's say it agin, because some parents are slow: on average, AAP classes are larger, not smaller. And the only extra funds are bussing (which many kids would use anyway) and testing (which all kids get). There are no extra instructional costs associated with AAP Level IV (unlike levels I-III, which use resources for pull outs).

At our center, the AAP classes are all SMALLER than the Gen Ed classes. As for your assertion that busing and testing are the only "extra funds" AAP uses, you clearly haven't been keeping up. The FCPS Budget Tool clearly states that closing centers and eliminating busing to centers would save $5.5 million. It's laughable that you're still insisting AAP doesn't cost the school system significant extra funds.

Clearly, "slow" applies to you. Try to keep up.