Anonymous
08/31/2015 12:03
Subject: SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
Anonymous wrote:I am a 5+ year parent at SWS. I am grateful that my kids got into and go to this school. At the same time, I am unhappy with the school's efforts around diversity.
I have talked to the principal on numerous occasions and received the same 'oh well - what can you do?' type response. Given another option for a school, we would take it. SWS has slid by on a lot of things because parents were happy on some levels with the education. I hope this most recent surge in voices questioning practices will result in some changes.
I used to buy in to the AA parents wanted different educational approaches for their children. I don't anymore - AA parents ranging from the security guard to others have commented that if they'd known about this school, they would have applied. There is a lot the school could be doing to reach out to AA parents - for starters, specifically asking current AA parents to volunteer at open houses, DCPS events and the MOTH school info night. Let's not give the school a pass.
In case you missed it PP: you should know that the AA families at SWS have both the brains and the balls to have this conversation for themselves and I'm sure they all want to be asked to testify/host open houses/be the face of he school every waking moment. That's hardly a "solution". You have plenty of other options. Go ahead, free up that spot for a black family.
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:59
Subject: Re:SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
Anonymous wrote:There isn't really much substance in the discussion here. Sounds more like a bunch of dissatisfied people who couldn't get in.
The racial aspect is ludicrous. John raised his kids in Capitol Hill twenty years ago when none of you would have set a foot there. If he was a racist at that point, he would have moved out to McLean (with all the other ones).
SWS is the most loving place you could be at and I understand that some of you might become "haters" because you didn't get in. Get over it. Life goes on. There are other great schools out there. If we didn't get in, I can think of five other good schools that would have been just fine.
There is no racism at school. Not among the staff, nor the kids. John will hire who is best suited for the job irrespective of skin color. The mission is to provide an education as close to Reggio Emilia principles as possible. And that's it. If you don't understand what that means, please familiarize yourself with what these principles are.
Shorter PP: My experience is the only one that is real, so shut up.
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:58
Subject: SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
Oh, don't worry, no one gets a pass around here. I'm sure there will always be something we can complain about. I'd say the school has a 10% window of increasing diversity before people start to complain there isn't enough "parent engagement" or "families local to the school" before the very same group of people start bitching about it.
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:57
Subject: Re:SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
There isn't really much substance in the discussion here. Sounds more like a bunch of dissatisfied people who couldn't get in.
The racial aspect is ludicrous. John raised his kids in Capitol Hill twenty years ago when none of you would have set a foot there. If he was a racist at that point, he would have moved out to McLean (with all the other ones).
SWS is the most loving place you could be at and I understand that some of you might become "haters" because you didn't get in. Get over it. Life goes on. There are other great schools out there. If we didn't get in, I can think of five other good schools that would have been just fine.
There is no racism at school. Not among the staff, nor the kids. John will hire who is best suited for the job irrespective of skin color. The mission is to provide an education as close to Reggio Emilia principles as possible. And that's it. If you don't understand what that means, please familiarize yourself with what these principles are.
The racial aspect is ludicrous. John raised his kids in Capitol Hill twenty years ago when none of you would have set a foot there. If he was a racist at that point, he would have moved out to McLean (with all the other ones).
SWS is the most loving place you could be at and I understand that some of you might become "haters" because you didn't get in. Get over it. Life goes on. There are other great schools out there. If we didn't get in, I can think of five other good schools that would have been just fine.
There is no racism at school. Not among the staff, nor the kids. John will hire who is best suited for the job irrespective of skin color. The mission is to provide an education as close to Reggio Emilia principles as possible. And that's it. If you don't understand what that means, please familiarize yourself with what these principles are.
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:53
Subject: SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
I am a 5+ year parent at SWS. I am grateful that my kids got into and go to this school. At the same time, I am unhappy with the school's efforts around diversity.
I have talked to the principal on numerous occasions and received the same 'oh well - what can you do?' type response. Given another option for a school, we would take it. SWS has slid by on a lot of things because parents were happy on some levels with the education. I hope this most recent surge in voices questioning practices will result in some changes.
I used to buy in to the AA parents wanted different educational approaches for their children. I don't anymore - AA parents ranging from the security guard to others have commented that if they'd known about this school, they would have applied. There is a lot the school could be doing to reach out to AA parents - for starters, specifically asking current AA parents to volunteer at open houses, DCPS events and the MOTH school info night. Let's not give the school a pass.
I have talked to the principal on numerous occasions and received the same 'oh well - what can you do?' type response. Given another option for a school, we would take it. SWS has slid by on a lot of things because parents were happy on some levels with the education. I hope this most recent surge in voices questioning practices will result in some changes.
I used to buy in to the AA parents wanted different educational approaches for their children. I don't anymore - AA parents ranging from the security guard to others have commented that if they'd known about this school, they would have applied. There is a lot the school could be doing to reach out to AA parents - for starters, specifically asking current AA parents to volunteer at open houses, DCPS events and the MOTH school info night. Let's not give the school a pass.
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:38
Subject: Re:SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
Anonymous wrote:I am sorry if I have posted this before, but it just made such an impression on me. I was one of the very few (maybe only?) non-white parents at an open house a few years back. Another parent (white) asked about diversity and what they're doing about it and the principal just seemed really put out by the question. He kind of shrugged and said, well, what can you do, we're not near any metro stations... because you know no minorities have cars or know how to use buses. it was a very weird moment.
I noticed this too when I visited. It was especially noticeable coming from open houses at nearby schools like CHML and 2 Rivers where the prospective parents were more reflective of the city's demographics.
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:37
Subject: Re:SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am sorry if I have posted this before, but it just made such an impression on me. I was one of the very few (maybe only?) non-white parents at an open house a few years back. Another parent (white) asked about diversity and what they're doing about it and the principal just seemed really put out by the question. He kind of shrugged and said, well, what can you do, we're not near any metro stations... because you know no minorities have cars or know how to use buses. it was a very weird moment.
What would you have wanted him to say? You can't make people choose your school, can you? Can YOU?
Acknowledging the problem and expressing some desire to fix it would have been a nice start. But he was almost hostile toward the questioner, like Oh this again, talking about that pesky race issue again instead of the happiness of children.
You couldn't pay me enough to be a Principal in this damn city. The gall, worrying more about the happiness of his students than the color of their skin. What a prick.
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:34
Subject: SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
^ Hey, the staff is at least reflective of the student body!
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:34
Subject: Re:SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am sorry if I have posted this before, but it just made such an impression on me. I was one of the very few (maybe only?) non-white parents at an open house a few years back. Another parent (white) asked about diversity and what they're doing about it and the principal just seemed really put out by the question. He kind of shrugged and said, well, what can you do, we're not near any metro stations... because you know no minorities have cars or know how to use buses. it was a very weird moment.
What would you have wanted him to say? You can't make people choose your school, can you? Can YOU?
Acknowledging the problem and expressing some desire to fix it would have been a nice start. But he was almost hostile toward the questioner, like Oh this again, talking about that pesky race issue again instead of the happiness of children.
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:33
Subject: SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Sure they are. Look at diversity in other citywide programs. Like Logan. Same neighborhood, 54% AA, 35% white. No citywide charter has managed to be so white. Maybe sibling preference explains a lot, but they should be knocking themselves out trying to recruit a wider mix of kids.
GUFFAW -- reverse the dynamics of that statement there and apply it to Miner, Payne, Burroughs, Eliot Hine, any of the 99% AA schools in this city. "Those black schools should be knocking themselves out trying to recruit some white kids!" There are literally 10 new spots a year at this school and everyone is wringing their hands about them. Practically every young kid local to the hill is white. Get off it.
Now, the hiring of teachers, yes I agree that's different and controllable, and very possibly an area for valid concern. But again OP, help me out with understanding what you're going to do with a blurb from an AA family that comes on here (BTW they're busy, I doubt they're even here, and you should know that they have both the brains and the balls to have this conversation for themselves) and says "Yes, we feel discriminated against and I've just been too afraid to mention it, thank God you've given me a venue here!" THEN you're going to take it up with the school? Or is this entire thread an easy way for you to assuage your own doubts and icky liberal tingles? "There, I've DONE something, I posted it on DCUM!"
Using Miner and Payne, etc, is a false equivalent, and you know it. Some of those schools HAVE tried hard to attract and retain white neighbors, with mixed results. Even though there are growing numbers of white children in DC, they are concentrated in a handful of DCPS and a small number of popular charters.
And there are plenty of motivated AA families in DC who knock themselves out to get their kids to better schools, whether they are charters or WOTP DCPS that have had historically had OOB seats. IF they're not applying to SWS, then why not? What does it hurt to take a good look at the program and see if it could be made more appealing to these families?
No one wants to actually read the arguments here, but I don't think the program itself is that attractive to many AA families. The lack of structure, the focus on art, Reggio is not for everyone. Why should they change their program to accommodate possible applicants? The whole point of it being city-wide is that it's a "Specialized" school. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Oh, please. There are plenty of non-white families who go for specialized programs. Maybe start with hiring a few teachers of color versus your white parents.
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:30
Subject: SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Sure they are. Look at diversity in other citywide programs. Like Logan. Same neighborhood, 54% AA, 35% white. No citywide charter has managed to be so white. Maybe sibling preference explains a lot, but they should be knocking themselves out trying to recruit a wider mix of kids.
GUFFAW -- reverse the dynamics of that statement there and apply it to Miner, Payne, Burroughs, Eliot Hine, any of the 99% AA schools in this city. "Those black schools should be knocking themselves out trying to recruit some white kids!" There are literally 10 new spots a year at this school and everyone is wringing their hands about them. Practically every young kid local to the hill is white. Get off it.
Now, the hiring of teachers, yes I agree that's different and controllable, and very possibly an area for valid concern. But again OP, help me out with understanding what you're going to do with a blurb from an AA family that comes on here (BTW they're busy, I doubt they're even here, and you should know that they have both the brains and the balls to have this conversation for themselves) and says "Yes, we feel discriminated against and I've just been too afraid to mention it, thank God you've given me a venue here!" THEN you're going to take it up with the school? Or is this entire thread an easy way for you to assuage your own doubts and icky liberal tingles? "There, I've DONE something, I posted it on DCUM!"
Using Miner and Payne, etc, is a false equivalent, and you know it. Some of those schools HAVE tried hard to attract and retain white neighbors, with mixed results. Even though there are growing numbers of white children in DC, they are concentrated in a handful of DCPS and a small number of popular charters.
And there are plenty of motivated AA families in DC who knock themselves out to get their kids to better schools, whether they are charters or WOTP DCPS that have had historically had OOB seats. IF they're not applying to SWS, then why not? What does it hurt to take a good look at the program and see if it could be made more appealing to these families?
No one wants to actually read the arguments here, but I don't think the program itself is that attractive to many AA families. The lack of structure, the focus on art, Reggio is not for everyone. Why should they change their program to accommodate possible applicants? The whole point of it being city-wide is that it's a "Specialized" school. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:25
Subject: SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Sure they are. Look at diversity in other citywide programs. Like Logan. Same neighborhood, 54% AA, 35% white. No citywide charter has managed to be so white. Maybe sibling preference explains a lot, but they should be knocking themselves out trying to recruit a wider mix of kids.
GUFFAW -- reverse the dynamics of that statement there and apply it to Miner, Payne, Burroughs, Eliot Hine, any of the 99% AA schools in this city. "Those black schools should be knocking themselves out trying to recruit some white kids!" There are literally 10 new spots a year at this school and everyone is wringing their hands about them. Practically every young kid local to the hill is white. Get off it.
Now, the hiring of teachers, yes I agree that's different and controllable, and very possibly an area for valid concern. But again OP, help me out with understanding what you're going to do with a blurb from an AA family that comes on here (BTW they're busy, I doubt they're even here, and you should know that they have both the brains and the balls to have this conversation for themselves) and says "Yes, we feel discriminated against and I've just been too afraid to mention it, thank God you've given me a venue here!" THEN you're going to take it up with the school? Or is this entire thread an easy way for you to assuage your own doubts and icky liberal tingles? "There, I've DONE something, I posted it on DCUM!"
Using Miner and Payne, etc, is a false equivalent, and you know it. Some of those schools HAVE tried hard to attract and retain white neighbors, with mixed results. Even though there are growing numbers of white children in DC, they are concentrated in a handful of DCPS and a small number of popular charters.
And there are plenty of motivated AA families in DC who knock themselves out to get their kids to better schools, whether they are charters or WOTP DCPS that have had historically had OOB seats. IF they're not applying to SWS, then why not? What does it hurt to take a good look at the program and see if it could be made more appealing to these families?
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:24
Subject: SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
Ok, we are at SWS and while our experience has been on balance positive, and, having come from a non-diverse Title I school I agree with the PP who says you should be careful what you wish for, I do agree there are some things about the atmosphere and leadership that are sort of icky feeling. Our family is not AA, so my feelings are not necessarily through that lens, but I could see how some of the "in-group/out-group" stuff could be perceived racially.
Some observations:
1. I am not sure how many spots were available to non-sibs in the PK3 lottery this year, but it seems like maybe somewhere between 6 and 8. At least 3 new AA families joined the PK3 class this year, and I know there were at least a few who joined PK3 last year too. Integration will probably be slow due to the sib preference discussed ad nauseum on this board, but I do see it happening.
2. I have a lot of complaints about aftercare, but see no problem with offering Irish Dance if people want it. My complaint is that most/all of their offerings are artsy rather than physical. The offerings tend to be skewed toward things girls, rather than boys, would enjoy.
3. Principal discretion after count day. Actually, that does NOT happen at most schools in high demand. Most of these schools are in neighborhoods where everyone knows each other's number and IB families are desperate to get in. There would be outrage if principals tinkered with the waitlist. I think the fact that PP thinks these post-count day shenanigans are normal speaks to the culture of SWS, frankly, that they can/should get away with things that other schools cannot.
4. The hiring of parents as teachers and staff: It is something that surprises me too. The thing that makes me most uncomfortable about it is that it reinforces the insular nature of the school. I have not found it is a place where leadership or parents like to be challenged, and hiring people who already accept the "culture" can be a way of avoiding those challenges. I have no idea if it was deliberate, but I would like to give the school the benefit of the doubt that it was not race-motivated, at the very least.
5. I have been pleased with some recent developments this year. Adding a language program is one. Getting rid of the policy where kids who were late (even on the first infraction) had to stand outside the classroom with their parents for 30 mins was another one. I understand there was some pressure from DCPS on this, and I appreciate them getting rid of a policy that was disproportionately punitive to working parents. It seems like whether it is through their own thoughtfulness or being pushed by DCPS, they are becoming more in line with the norms (in a good way).
In sum, I think that as the school grows, and becomes more city-wide, we are going to see a lot of changes. Some good, some bad, some good or bad depending on your perspective. I would think/hope things are going to become more diverse as time goes on. It really is a much better place than a lot of other options out there.
Some observations:
1. I am not sure how many spots were available to non-sibs in the PK3 lottery this year, but it seems like maybe somewhere between 6 and 8. At least 3 new AA families joined the PK3 class this year, and I know there were at least a few who joined PK3 last year too. Integration will probably be slow due to the sib preference discussed ad nauseum on this board, but I do see it happening.
2. I have a lot of complaints about aftercare, but see no problem with offering Irish Dance if people want it. My complaint is that most/all of their offerings are artsy rather than physical. The offerings tend to be skewed toward things girls, rather than boys, would enjoy.
3. Principal discretion after count day. Actually, that does NOT happen at most schools in high demand. Most of these schools are in neighborhoods where everyone knows each other's number and IB families are desperate to get in. There would be outrage if principals tinkered with the waitlist. I think the fact that PP thinks these post-count day shenanigans are normal speaks to the culture of SWS, frankly, that they can/should get away with things that other schools cannot.
4. The hiring of parents as teachers and staff: It is something that surprises me too. The thing that makes me most uncomfortable about it is that it reinforces the insular nature of the school. I have not found it is a place where leadership or parents like to be challenged, and hiring people who already accept the "culture" can be a way of avoiding those challenges. I have no idea if it was deliberate, but I would like to give the school the benefit of the doubt that it was not race-motivated, at the very least.
5. I have been pleased with some recent developments this year. Adding a language program is one. Getting rid of the policy where kids who were late (even on the first infraction) had to stand outside the classroom with their parents for 30 mins was another one. I understand there was some pressure from DCPS on this, and I appreciate them getting rid of a policy that was disproportionately punitive to working parents. It seems like whether it is through their own thoughtfulness or being pushed by DCPS, they are becoming more in line with the norms (in a good way).
In sum, I think that as the school grows, and becomes more city-wide, we are going to see a lot of changes. Some good, some bad, some good or bad depending on your perspective. I would think/hope things are going to become more diverse as time goes on. It really is a much better place than a lot of other options out there.
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:13
Subject: SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Sure they are. Look at diversity in other citywide programs. Like Logan. Same neighborhood, 54% AA, 35% white. No citywide charter has managed to be so white. Maybe sibling preference explains a lot, but they should be knocking themselves out trying to recruit a wider mix of kids.
GUFFAW -- reverse the dynamics of that statement there and apply it to Miner, Payne, Burroughs, Eliot Hine, any of the 99% AA schools in this city. "Those black schools should be knocking themselves out trying to recruit some white kids!" There are literally 10 new spots a year at this school and everyone is wringing their hands about them. Practically every young kid local to the hill is white. Get off it.
Now, the hiring of teachers, yes I agree that's different and controllable, and very possibly an area for valid concern. But again OP, help me out with understanding what you're going to do with a blurb from an AA family that comes on here (BTW they're busy, I doubt they're even here, and you should know that they have both the brains and the balls to have this conversation for themselves) and says "Yes, we feel discriminated against and I've just been too afraid to mention it, thank God you've given me a venue here!" THEN you're going to take it up with the school? Or is this entire thread an easy way for you to assuage your own doubts and icky liberal tingles? "There, I've DONE something, I posted it on DCUM!"
Anonymous
08/31/2015 11:08
Subject: SWS -- Atmosphere and Leadership
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So, you aren't friends with any of the AA families at the school? Ok. Can you imagine what they might say too? Should you actually have a conversation with one of them? "Yeah, it'd be nice if there were more color?" What "evidence" will be satisfactory for you? The kind you get on an anonymous listserv?
Your intentions might be well and good, but you're foo nothing but creating a platform here for people with no firsthand experience to provide their outside "theories".
But you don't need theories. You just need numbers. If SWS is a city-wide school, then there should not be a huge disparity between the demographics of the city and the school. Likewise, if the population of qualified teachers is racially balanced then you should not see a huge disparity. Furthermore there IS value in having teachers reflect the demographic - if you don't understand why, please do a little reading and educate yourself before you start opining.
Please see PP:
As the siblings age, the demographics should shift to be more representative of the city (like 2 Rivers is now), although you also have to consider the demographics of the applicant pool as there may be aspects of the school as noted by some PPs and in other SWS threads on this board that lead to families choosing not to apply.