Anonymous wrote:We make $450K/year. We're worth around $5M depending on the market. We live in a middle class neighborhood and we call ourselves middle class. Why? Because rich people suck. They're boring, shallow and competitive. If I had to live in Chevy Chase, I'd slit my wrists. I'd rather our kids were raised around people who respect money and hard work. We feel like impostors sometimes, but I'd rather feel that then worry all the time that my kids were hanging around with spoiled kids, joy riding with their drivers and thinking a ski vacation in Colorado is slumming it because we're not in Europe. Middle class work ethic made this country great and abandoning it based on our HHI would be ridiculous.

LOL.

You couldn't hang with the truly rich with your income and net worth even if you wanted to. The irony is that Chevy Chase is filled with people that are mostly like you: nice but not spectacular HHI and net worth. Most of them got there through hard work and a solid education. They are competitive in their profession, purpose driven, and are successful at what they do. They most likely have some wonderful stories to tell about the things they've encountered on their way up the social ladder. I love meeting these types of people in a social setting because many of them will pour forth with their experience because they are strong and confident.

Come to think of it, you are the one that's pretentious.

Anonymous wrote:We make $450K/year. We're worth around $5M depending on the market. We live in a middle class neighborhood and we call ourselves middle class. Why? Because rich people suck. They're boring, shallow and competitive. If I had to live in Chevy Chase, I'd slit my wrists. I'd rather our kids were raised around people who respect money and hard work. We feel like impostors sometimes, but I'd rather feel that then worry all the time that my kids were hanging around with spoiled kids, joy riding with their drivers and thinking a ski vacation in Colorado is slumming it because we're not in Europe. Middle class work ethic made this country great and abandoning it based on our HHI would be ridiculous.

Congrats on your success and I like your outlook, but there's no way you can call yourselves middle class with that net worth and HHI.

We make $450K/year. We're worth around $5M depending on the market. We live in a middle class neighborhood and we call ourselves middle class. Why? Because rich people suck. They're boring, shallow and competitive. If I had to live in Chevy Chase, I'd slit my wrists. I'd rather our kids were raised around people who respect money and hard work. We feel like impostors sometimes, but I'd rather feel that then worry all the time that my kids were hanging around with spoiled kids, joy riding with their drivers and thinking a ski vacation in Colorado is slumming it because we're not in Europe. Middle class work ethic made this country great and abandoning it based on our HHI would be ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest. My family has about a $350k HHI and I don't have middle class values. I like outsourcing and having the freedom to travel internationally. I send my kids to private schools.

Honestly, I think the people in my tax bracket who claim "middle class values" are mostly lying to themselves. I have colleagues with 1/3 my HHI (which is actually middle class-like) and I know they live very differently than us.

Whenever you see there is someone richer than you you can always imagine you are middle class. It's silly. Give it up.

I have a higher HHI than you do, and I have middle class values with an upper middle class lifestyle. We outsource, but we don't travel internationally and our kids go to public school. We have a paid off house worth less than 1 million dollars and drive 5 year old Japanese cars.
I'm curious how many millions in net worth you have.

We are in our late thirties/early forties and our estate is worth about $4m, and that's from work, not inheritance. We don't overspend, and are frugal in many ways. Our cars are actually 10 years old+. I'm not flashy. My clothes that I am wearing today cost less than $200 for everything I'm wearing including my shoes. I have a $4k engagement ring but no other jewelry that cost more than $200 or so. We could survive if I lost my job, but not DH, but he has tenure so can't be fired.

I'm just being honest that at this HHI I have choices middle class people don't have. I use some of them. I'm not going to claim that my life is as hard as the middle class, or that I have to make the same choices they do. I am lucky. I own it and don't have any illusions. The choice isn't middle class or Donald Trump. I'm close to being in the 1% and I'm not going to insult the person who can't just hire their nanny for some extra hours when a work emergency comes up, like I can, by claiming my life is just like theirs at the core. It's not. It's easier in many ways, and I accept that.

I appreciate your post.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll be honest. My family has about a $350k HHI and I don't have middle class values. I like outsourcing and having the freedom to travel internationally. I send my kids to private schools.

Honestly, I think the people in my tax bracket who claim "middle class values" are mostly lying to themselves. I have colleagues with 1/3 my HHI (which is actually middle class-like) and I know they live very differently than us.

Whenever you see there is someone richer than you you can always imagine you are middle class. It's silly. Give it up.

I have a higher HHI than you do, and I have middle class values with an upper middle class lifestyle. We outsource, but we don't travel internationally and our kids go to public school. We have a paid off house worth less than 1 million dollars and drive 5 year old Japanese cars.
I'm curious how many millions in net worth you have.

We are in our late thirties/early forties and our estate is worth about $4m, and that's from work, not inheritance. We don't overspend, and are frugal in many ways. Our cars are actually 10 years old+. I'm not flashy. My clothes that I am wearing today cost less than $200 for everything I'm wearing including my shoes. I have a $4k engagement ring but no other jewelry that cost more than $200 or so. We could survive if I lost my job, but not DH, but he has tenure so can't be fired.

I'm just being honest that at this HHI I have choices middle class people don't have. I use some of them. I'm not going to claim that my life is as hard as the middle class, or that I have to make the same choices they do. I am lucky. I own it and don't have any illusions. The choice isn't middle class or Donald Trump. I'm close to being in the 1% and I'm not going to insult the person who can't just hire their nanny for some extra hours when a work emergency comes up, like I can, by claiming my life is just like theirs at the core. It's not. It's easier in many ways, and I accept that.

Good post!

anonymous wrote:I won't say that everyone in the lower class or living in poverty is lazy, but there is strong correlation between this demographic segment, and behaviors such as laziness, lack of focus on education, and poor life choices in general.

This is absolutely true, especially the poor life choices part. These are the folks having tons of kids and then looking for handouts when they can't afford to feed and clothe them all.

anonymous wrote:On the flip side, some of the generational money I see are not hard working. They may have a nice degree from a nice school, but they don't use it. They travel a lot, drink a lot of wine, attend a lot of social functions, charity events, art exhibitions, etc. These people are not middle class and would fall into poverty if you isolate them from their wealth.

Also true. I have always thought that this is due to a lot of the folks in this situation not being hungry enough. They grew up with everything they could possibly want and never had to work for anything and they know they have it made inheritance-wise so they simply lack the fire that your parents and other truly middle class people have.

Anonymous wrote:Are "hard work" and "valuing education" exclusively middle class values?

There are people who are hardworking people and shiftless, lazy people of all classes.

I think people just like associating the "middle class" with things they like.

Not exclusive, but the middle class has a strong focus on hard work and education. My family lived below the poverty line when I was in my teens. My parents were new immigrants and had strong focus on hard work and education. And I don't just mean if you ask them in a survey "do you value hard work and education", but they actually lived like that. On the hard work front, they lead by example, putting in long hours, and made sure that the kids were not idling around. We got summer jobs, paper routes etc, as soon as it was legal for us to do so. For education, my parents moved around within their financial means to put us in good school districts, tutored us nightly to help us with our schoolwork. They made sure all of us went to college, and had good useful majors that had good income potential.

The US is such that if you have middle class values, and practice what you believe in, its overwhelmingly likely that you will have a middle class lifestyle. I won't say that everyone in the lower class or living in poverty is lazy, but there is strong correlation between this demographic segment, and behaviors such as laziness, lack of focus on education, and poor life choices in general.

On the flip side, some of the generational money I see are not hard working. They may have a nice degree from a nice school, but they don't use it. They travel a lot, drink a lot of wine, attend a lot of social functions, charity events, art exhibitions, etc. These people are not middle class and would fall into poverty if you isolate them from their wealth.

Are "hard work" and "valuing education" exclusively middle class values?

There are people who are hardworking people and shiftless, lazy people of all classes.

I think people just like associating the "middle class" with things they like.

For me, having middle class values is how I became affluent.

Anonymous wrote:If you're making $200 or 300K a year, you're in the top 5%. Yet so many people with these incomes insist they live a "middle class" lifestyle and have "middle class values." Why? Because you vote Democrat instead of Republican? Because you're not a member of a country club? Because you can't afford (like 99.99% of Americans) to fly by private jet?

Read The Millionaire Next Door.

The single biggest reason so many of us high earners feel like we are not is that housing prices in non-crappy school districts are obscene for anyone needing to commute to the region's core (inner Arlington or DC).

If we had no kids or made the same money but I stayed home to homeschool I would feel pretty loaded. As it is I instead stress about being able to afford to move to a tolerable MS/HS pyramid that does not require shifting our commutes beyond the hour mark.

Anonymous wrote:Yep, it's all about valuing hard work and education. Middle class values.

I have a master's degree, run a business, and work at least 60 hours a week. It got a little tougher after having a child. I was back at work two weeks later. I had a daycare for my daughter installed next to my office. HHI ~25M/year.

-- Melissa

and then to boost productivity and teamwork you ended the telework policy to bring all the other mothers back into the office.

Yep, it's all about valuing hard work and education. Middle class values.

I have a master's degree, run a business, and work at least 60 hours a week. It got a little tougher after having a child. I was back at work two weeks later. I had a daycare for my daughter installed next to my office. HHI ~25M/year.

-- Melissa

I used to work 3 jobs at once. I've worked at fast food restaurants, I've worked overnight shifts, I've worked jobs that I've absolutely hated, but I did it because I needed money and I needed to pay for my education. Now I make $300k a year. My values are still the same. Why would they change?

Because that's how they were raised.