Anonymous wrote:

warrenox wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

warrenox wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen, I think it's all very pie in the sky to say that immersion benefits at risk kids. At Tyler, they kick kids out of immersion if they're too unruly (or SpEd) because they don't want to scare/alienate the upper middle class white families. As MULTIPLE pps have said, in actuality, dual immersion programs ADD to segregation, they don't decrease it. At Tyler, white parents still woudn't be caught dead with their kids in the 'traditional' program.

Have these MULTIPLE people provided any statistics to support those claims? Everyone can have an opinion, but not everyone has a informed opinion.

Are the "traditional" programs working? Do you have dead white parents that can testify to this or is this all hyperbole?

Playing the race card isn't going to help any of the students; finding solutions together is the best option.

Stats? There are 0 white kids in Tyler traditional programs above the 4 year old class. ZERO.

http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/56-Tyler-Elementary-School/quality/#Dig_deeper


Those statistics there probably shows you the answer on how well the "traditional" program is working. What parent isn't concerned by those ratings?

I bet there are many black kids that are in the lottery system trying to move from Tyler as well, but that isn't your focus is it?

You are completely missing my point. Maybe you have me confused with another PP. Maybe you have me confused for a white person. I am not, for what it's worth. My point is that adding immersion doesn't desegregate a school - that's why I mentioned that there aren't white kids in Tyler Traditional. Of COURSE I am concerned about ALL the kids at Tyler - my own black kids (who I am pulling out of Tyler) included. My argument is that adding the immersion program didn't help 99% of them. It's a terrible, awful place.

Maybe we are talking past one another. Immersion programs are not going to get inbound students into traditional programs at those schools, I agree. If those programs are failing now, why would we fault anyone for not wanting to be a part of those programs? An immersion program can desegregate a school in the sense that parents, even non-Capital Hill parents (i.e. Northwest) will most likely be applying to get their child into spots for immersion programs, particularly ones where there aren't many other choices. This will change the demographics of a school to where it's not predominately one race, which is better for all students.

Immersion programs don't change a school overnight. It takes getting those students who started these programs at an early age to get to the 5th grade before you will see the 5th grade scores at that school change.

I totally understand your frustration with Tyler and hope you find a better school that fits you and your family. It's frustrating when it's not your local inbound school. My child will be inbound to Miner and I truly hope that something can change at that school before I have to make the difficult choice of getting into the lottery and taking my chances there.

Maury ES will offer Chinese starting Fall 2015 (continuing and adding to Brent's program it took over). Seriously fabulous idea to focus Miner in that direction, too. The two schools are 4 blocks apart and both feed to Eliot-Hine. Please don't make the homeless population some sort of guide. All schools around here do a fantastic job tending to many homeless children.

As for "immersion", I'm not entirely convinced. Maury started to draw families with a PS3-4 "immersion" Spanish program in about 2008 (it was in its infancy and therefore called "exposure" program). When time came to try to move it to full immersion as kids grew older, as is the case for Tyler, the plug was pulled. For the better I think, because there was no denying it that it divided the community at the school. With a sample of N=2, I would say Maury's experience compared to Tyler's demonstrates this was the right approach. Then again, in both instances, the "immersion" part, temporary or not, was a pivotal contributor to the school's success.

warrenox wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

warrenox wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen, I think it's all very pie in the sky to say that immersion benefits at risk kids. At Tyler, they kick kids out of immersion if they're too unruly (or SpEd) because they don't want to scare/alienate the upper middle class white families. As MULTIPLE pps have said, in actuality, dual immersion programs ADD to segregation, they don't decrease it. At Tyler, white parents still woudn't be caught dead with their kids in the 'traditional' program.

Have these MULTIPLE people provided any statistics to support those claims? Everyone can have an opinion, but not everyone has a informed opinion.

Are the "traditional" programs working? Do you have dead white parents that can testify to this or is this all hyperbole?

Playing the race card isn't going to help any of the students; finding solutions together is the best option.

Stats? There are 0 white kids in Tyler traditional programs above the 4 year old class. ZERO.

http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/56-Tyler-Elementary-School/quality/#Dig_deeper


Those statistics there probably shows you the answer on how well the "traditional" program is working. What parent isn't concerned by those ratings?

I bet there are many black kids that are in the lottery system trying to move from Tyler as well, but that isn't your focus is it?

You are completely missing my point. Maybe you have me confused with another PP. Maybe you have me confused for a white person. I am not, for what it's worth. My point is that adding immersion doesn't desegregate a school - that's why I mentioned that there aren't white kids in Tyler Traditional. Of COURSE I am concerned about ALL the kids at Tyler - my own black kids (who I am pulling out of Tyler) included. My argument is that adding the immersion program didn't help 99% of them. It's a terrible, awful place.

Anonymous wrote:

warrenox wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen, I think it's all very pie in the sky to say that immersion benefits at risk kids. At Tyler, they kick kids out of immersion if they're too unruly (or SpEd) because they don't want to scare/alienate the upper middle class white families. As MULTIPLE pps have said, in actuality, dual immersion programs ADD to segregation, they don't decrease it. At Tyler, white parents still woudn't be caught dead with their kids in the 'traditional' program.

Have these MULTIPLE people provided any statistics to support those claims? Everyone can have an opinion, but not everyone has a informed opinion.

Are the "traditional" programs working? Do you have dead white parents that can testify to this or is this all hyperbole?

Playing the race card isn't going to help any of the students; finding solutions together is the best option.

Stats? There are 0 white kids in Tyler traditional programs above the 4 year old class. ZERO.

http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/56-Tyler-Elementary-School/quality/#Dig_deeper


Those statistics there probably shows you the answer on how well the "traditional" program is working. What parent isn't concerned by those ratings?

I bet there are many black kids that are in the lottery system trying to move from Tyler as well, but that isn't your focus is it?

http://www.greatschools.org/washington-dc/washington/56-Tyler-Elementary-School/details/

This statistic shows that there is a higher percentage of white students than the DC average.

warrenox wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen, I think it's all very pie in the sky to say that immersion benefits at risk kids. At Tyler, they kick kids out of immersion if they're too unruly (or SpEd) because they don't want to scare/alienate the upper middle class white families. As MULTIPLE pps have said, in actuality, dual immersion programs ADD to segregation, they don't decrease it. At Tyler, white parents still woudn't be caught dead with their kids in the 'traditional' program.

Have these MULTIPLE people provided any statistics to support those claims? Everyone can have an opinion, but not everyone has a informed opinion.

Are the "traditional" programs working? Do you have dead white parents that can testify to this or is this all hyperbole?

Playing the race card isn't going to help any of the students; finding solutions together is the best option.

Stats? There are 0 white kids in Tyler traditional programs above the 4 year old class. ZERO.

Anonymous wrote:Miner also only has a large homeless population right now because the homeless shelter at DC General is IB for it. This shelter is closing soon and those kids will be spread out among other sites around the city. Its probably not smart to make long term plans with a population in mind that will be leaving.

If any more students leave Miner, what makes DCPS keep the school open? There already is only half the student population that was anticipated when they built the facilities. This can be contributed to the fact that many families who should be inbound to Miner choose to go the lottery route.

How do you stop this exodus from happening? Why not make a long term plan that would facilitate a desire for people in the lottery to choose Miner? Again, facilities are there.

Having an elementary school that is a desired destination is good for any community. Losing a school is a loss for the whole community.

Anonymous wrote:Listen, I think it's all very pie in the sky to say that immersion benefits at risk kids. At Tyler, they kick kids out of immersion if they're too unruly (or SpEd) because they don't want to scare/alienate the upper middle class white families. As MULTIPLE pps have said, in actuality, dual immersion programs ADD to segregation, they don't decrease it. At Tyler, white parents still woudn't be caught dead with their kids in the 'traditional' program.

Have these MULTIPLE people provided any statistics to support those claims? Everyone can have an opinion, but not everyone has a informed opinion. I've backed up my comments with professionals who support those claims. Where is your proof that dual immersion adds to segregation aside from your supposition of what white parents at Tyler are doing? You're putting everything in a racial context when it really may be about parents wanting what is best for their child.

Are the "traditional" programs working? Do you have dead white parents that can testify to this or is this all hyperbole?

Playing the race card isn't going to help any of the students; finding solutions together is the best option.

Anonymous wrote:Miner also only has a large homeless population right now because the homeless shelter at DC General is IB for it. This shelter is closing soon and those kids will be spread out among other sites around the city. Its probably not smart to make long term plans with a population in mind that will be leaving.

You're wrong about the shelter being inbounds for Miner, it's Payne that actually includes DC General, but you're right that there is a significant population of homeless youth at Miner (slightly more than at Payne even). But it doesn't much matter about boundaries, there is a separate policy allowing homeless children to remain in school where they were before they became homeless if they wish.

Details:
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2015/02/20/map-where-d-c-s-homeless-children-go-to-school/

Anonymous wrote:Miner also only has a large homeless population right now because the homeless shelter at DC General is IB for it. This shelter is closing soon and those kids will be spread out among other sites around the city. Its probably not smart to make long term plans with a population in mind that will be leaving.

DC General has been "closing soon" for a very long time. If it closes, there is no guarantee about what will replace it--could very well include a new shelter on the same site. It is probably not smart to make plans with the idea in mind that 17% of the students will be leaving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen, I think it's all very pie in the sky to say that immersion benefits at risk kids. At Tyler, they kick kids out of immersion if they're too unruly (or SpEd) because they don't want to scare/alienate the upper middle class white families. As MULTIPLE pps have said, in actuality, dual immersion programs ADD to segregation, they don't decrease it. At Tyler, white parents still woudn't be caught dead with their kids in the 'traditional' program.

So let's just throw up our hands and say "screw you IB families who would like to go to Miner! Hope you do well in the lottery!"

Why can't they go to Miner WITHOUT language immersion??? Because they don't want to associate with the poor kids?? Because that's the only conclusion I can draw. There are ways to improve a school without adding a program to entice rich people. Go to the school, join the PTA, raise money, write grant proposals, find out what teachers need and help them.

Miner also only has a large homeless population right now because the homeless shelter at DC General is IB for it. This shelter is closing soon and those kids will be spread out among other sites around the city. Its probably not smart to make long term plans with a population in mind that will be leaving.

Anonymous wrote:Listen, I think it's all very pie in the sky to say that immersion benefits at risk kids. At Tyler, they kick kids out of immersion if they're too unruly (or SpEd) because they don't want to scare/alienate the upper middle class white families. As MULTIPLE pps have said, in actuality, dual immersion programs ADD to segregation, they don't decrease it. At Tyler, white parents still woudn't be caught dead with their kids in the 'traditional' program.

So let's just throw up our hands and say "screw you IB families who would like to go to Miner! Hope you do well in the lottery!"

Listen, I think it's all very pie in the sky to say that immersion benefits at risk kids. At Tyler, they kick kids out of immersion if they're too unruly (or SpEd) because they don't want to scare/alienate the upper middle class white families. As MULTIPLE pps have said, in actuality, dual immersion programs ADD to segregation, they don't decrease it. At Tyler, white parents still woudn't be caught dead with their kids in the 'traditional' program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Miner could potentially be a food place for a dual language program. But I think the organizers aren't including the whole community. Not many parents from the surrounding apartment complexes where The majority of Miner parents live read DC urban mom and as a parent at Miner, I find it interesting that I'm first seeing the announcement of this meeting on this forum. The school is already becoming divisive. I think that we have to be more conscious to include the majority of parents and not a few. Why mandarin? Was there a vote from the general parent population? I don't recall getting a survey and I check books bags and talk to my child's teachers daily.

Well said. I'd also like to know the history of this "grass-roots" movement.

I've had a chance to speak with the lady leading the effort for an Immersion Program at Miner.

A few things I learned:

- Mandarin is the language she would like to see; DCPS would decide what language to offer by what resources are available to them. Spanish apparently isn't an option since they already have a few Spanish Immersion programs.

-Mandarin is a Level 5 language, which is difficult for adults, but negligible difference for kids under 13 to learn. If you have a grasp of a Level 5 language, then it's immensely easier to learn a Level 1-4.

-Everyone involved in this grass roots are parents of child inbound to Miner. It seems to be a learn as you go process and no one is a professional organizer. I heard some ideas that there needs to be a reaching out of people that may not communicate by social media and the message was well received. Gimbiya, the parent leading the discussions, has been to ANC meetings, and has put together various meetings in the community to show films and lead discussions. I think there is a understanding that this message needs to be spread more effectively so that all community stakeholders know about this movement.

http://speakingintonguesfilm.info/

-Immersion programs have been shown to desegregate communities

http://www.nationaljournal.com/next-america/population-2043/how-a-public-chinese-immersion-school-is-desegregating-st-louis-20140909

-Miner has a student population that is less than half what the facilities can handle. Miner currently lost their science teacher as enrollment decreased as parents have looked to put their kids in the lottery system for other schools instead of going to Miner, their local school. Because of the facilities to handle an increase of kids that would be looking to get into a Immersion Program, Miner is a ideal fit. This potentially could decrease the wait-list of other nearby schools like Maury.

-Immersion programs have been shown to benefit at-risk students and may possibly be the only chance these kids have at acquiring a fluency in a second language

http://www.carla.umn.edu/immersion/acie/vol2/Bridge2.2.pdf

- The belief that an immersion program is detrimental to a student's studies of reading and writing are unfounded: "English-proficient immersion students who achieved relatively high levels of second-language proficiency also acquired higher levels of English language skills and metalinguistic awareness—that is, the ability to think about how various parts of a language function."

http://www.carla.umn.edu/immersion/documents/ImmersionResearch_TaraFortune.html

-Understanding that parents will not be able to "help" with homework, there are many resources out there to help with tutoring which would be a benefit for any student

http://paassc.com/


If nothing else, this grassroots movement is an excellent thing because it has brought a focus to Miner that has at times been lacking.

Play pump, my god!