Anonymous
06/02/2015 06:21
Subject: Re:BASIS to Deal?
+1. BASIS weeds out kids who could handle their curriculum with a little more support, particularly a proper summer school to prepare to retake comprehensive exams instead of just a study packet. BASIS also weeds out too many of its strongest students, mainly by practically locking them in a less-than-healthy environment all day long, showing 11 year olds endless PP presentations in darkened rooms. By this time of year, too many BASIS kids are pale and look exhausted. Also, BASIS is absurdly anti field trip, in one of the best locations for walking field trips on earth, and doesn't promote other forms of cheer (spirit weeks etc.). Teachers have too much on their plates to organize fun.
To be fair to BASIS though, funding constraints limit what they're trying to do - they need more resource people they can't afford, which will remain true as long as our politicians won't agree to give charters the same per student outlays DCPS gets. Loads of BASIS parents seem to have taken the position that the kid can gut the place out for middle school to gain an edge on Walls or private school admissions.
BASIS has my support for keeping families like mine in the city, period; I just wish they'd do what they're doing a whole lot better, with a campus with grounds and a gym, a real PTA, student government, much more fresh air (e.g. reinstating 7th grade PE) etc.
To be fair to BASIS though, funding constraints limit what they're trying to do - they need more resource people they can't afford, which will remain true as long as our politicians won't agree to give charters the same per student outlays DCPS gets. Loads of BASIS parents seem to have taken the position that the kid can gut the place out for middle school to gain an edge on Walls or private school admissions.
BASIS has my support for keeping families like mine in the city, period; I just wish they'd do what they're doing a whole lot better, with a campus with grounds and a gym, a real PTA, student government, much more fresh air (e.g. reinstating 7th grade PE) etc.
Anonymous
06/01/2015 18:08
Subject: Re:BASIS to Deal?
From OP - a number of you have written encouraging comments and I just wanted to thank you all given that it didn't make sense to keep doing so individually.
I appreciated your comments on English at BASIS too. In 5th and 6th grade I have found it to require reading that I think was often too advanced - with vocabulary most do not know until high school or college and taht did not help the child comprehend or do their best. Also I did not think it was easy. I agree there was not enough done to teach writing though I think my son's 6th grade teacher did a better job on that. Are parents of hte older students saying that 76th and 8th grade English were not good? or maybe my child had new teachers - in fact I thnk he did each year.
I have been pleased with the math in 5th and 6th, for those looking at Basis. I can see a problem if you get to high school and have not had all of geometry but most high schools don't expect any geometry so i would think your child can take it in 9th, though it may be hard to convince them to go from 9th to pre-cal in 10th. I am told that when Basis kids leave they find they know some of the math being taught in other schools at their grade level but not all. I don't know if that is true.
Personally, I don't feel that we are being run out of BASIS due to any bias (someone referred to that phenomenon), nor do I think what I have heard other parents who have left say "BASIS was not right for my child or my child is not a serious enough student for BASIS". Instead, right now, I think the BASIS system is not flexible enough to accomodate different learning needs, though I think they could absoutely do so without watering down their standards. TThere are good people there though, trying to do their best to educate and help kids despite their lack of flexibilty as teachers and administrators. As a public school I think they need to develop more flexibility, especially in DC where they came in touting to the charter board the ability to teach all kids and elevate all kids academically. A weed-out testing system paid for with public taxpayer money is not fair or appropriate, in my view, certainly not at this age. In a private school it would be acceptable and it makes sense that their newer schools are private. But the DC school is not so I believe they have an obligation to successfully educate all whom they admit.
While kids in Europe take A and O level exams they do so at age 16 or 17 and many other kids are weeded out of the college bound system after middle school. That is not the American way and I am glad it is not. I don't think BASIS or any American school should emulate that. - My two cents.
I appreciated your comments on English at BASIS too. In 5th and 6th grade I have found it to require reading that I think was often too advanced - with vocabulary most do not know until high school or college and taht did not help the child comprehend or do their best. Also I did not think it was easy. I agree there was not enough done to teach writing though I think my son's 6th grade teacher did a better job on that. Are parents of hte older students saying that 76th and 8th grade English were not good? or maybe my child had new teachers - in fact I thnk he did each year.
I have been pleased with the math in 5th and 6th, for those looking at Basis. I can see a problem if you get to high school and have not had all of geometry but most high schools don't expect any geometry so i would think your child can take it in 9th, though it may be hard to convince them to go from 9th to pre-cal in 10th. I am told that when Basis kids leave they find they know some of the math being taught in other schools at their grade level but not all. I don't know if that is true.
Personally, I don't feel that we are being run out of BASIS due to any bias (someone referred to that phenomenon), nor do I think what I have heard other parents who have left say "BASIS was not right for my child or my child is not a serious enough student for BASIS". Instead, right now, I think the BASIS system is not flexible enough to accomodate different learning needs, though I think they could absoutely do so without watering down their standards. TThere are good people there though, trying to do their best to educate and help kids despite their lack of flexibilty as teachers and administrators. As a public school I think they need to develop more flexibility, especially in DC where they came in touting to the charter board the ability to teach all kids and elevate all kids academically. A weed-out testing system paid for with public taxpayer money is not fair or appropriate, in my view, certainly not at this age. In a private school it would be acceptable and it makes sense that their newer schools are private. But the DC school is not so I believe they have an obligation to successfully educate all whom they admit.
While kids in Europe take A and O level exams they do so at age 16 or 17 and many other kids are weeded out of the college bound system after middle school. That is not the American way and I am glad it is not. I don't think BASIS or any American school should emulate that. - My two cents.
Anonymous
06/01/2015 17:41
Subject: BASIS to Deal?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:pp here. I mean there are kids who transferred from BASIS to deal who know advanced concepts but lack basic ones.
such as?
Not the pp, but we are dealing with the same issues.
We have been at BASIS since the first year. Geometry being part of the Algebra I and Algebra II, is not being taught well. DS is in preCal, but needs to do take Geometry next year when we transfer from BASIS.
Aside from math, which has been explained here - with Saxon, unless you get through the one year Precalc course you have not finished Geometry, it is a textbook that assumes kids will stay, I have only heard of one bad math teacher at Basis. Math is something they seem to me to do really well. And really thoroughly. English? They teach the grammar, but in 8th grade we are still waiting for a decent teacher to teach writing. Our younger child has one though. I don't think you can really "know" advanced concepts without understanding the basic ones. I think they do a tremendous job of providing the building blocks for Bio, Phys and Chem (and my 8th grader uses a Bunsen burner, so don't start about how we have no science lab).
There is teacher turnover, and teachers are switching back and forth. One of our best is from Latin, moved the first year and has stayed. But part of the turnover is Basis fires bad teachers. If their kids don't do well on the BASIS wide portions of the precomps and comps, they are gone, among other things. We also have some gems who are awesome teachers and true role models, including an Econ teacher who is a retired lobbyist and is working for free, and many PhD's who pass their knowledge and enthusiasm straight to the kids. It is not discussion oriented. It is based on acquiring knowledge and skills, and part of that is memorization but not as much as you would think.
I think the hardest thing to handle is the amount of work, starting in 5th grade. But another parent said that they did not think their school did such a good job transitioning from being play based to academically oriented, and so it is a kind of good thing that Basis is just Basis all the way through IMO. It is sad that the amount of work overwhelms some kids, and once you fall behind, even being sick for a week, can really mean tough times ahead. But I like the constant testing to make sure the kids are really getting what they are being taught, and I like the comps which prepare you for APs and all the other high stakes testing that goes on in high school. But at the outset, it can absolutely be overwhelming.
OP, Deal will allow your child to go fast enough in math and offer enough science so the trade off is not worth it. And he will get into a good college if he performs well. They do try really hard with 5th graders to teach them the system and there are no comps. So you kind of have a year to figure out whether Basis is the right place for you and your kid. If we were doing their homework with them or if they were stressed in 6th grade we would leave. You have figured it out and although it is sad because of his interest in math and science, go to Deal and then apply to McKinley Tech and Banneker (although they are apparently hard core on the homework).
We had one kid who we thought might get stressed out and instead the constant testing has made the kid more relaxed about everything except precomps, comps, and APs, which we took for the first time this year. But we think they did pretty well on the APs, Basis kids in general seem to do so - I think because the precomps and comps 6th-8th have prepared them to master an entire year's worth of material... And now that our first ones have been taken, the fear is gone, and they were not as impossible as child expected....just like the comps.
But I really think you have no choice, especially because of the self esteem issues. Adolescence is a very dangerous time for African American boys, and if they are academically oriented and do not get discouraged you have won half the battle. I am sorry. Please tell the school you are leaving if you decide not to go til after comps, but call Deal and ask if they would make your boy repeat the year if he failed the class because comps are half of your class grade and it sounds like he might......... You want to know the answer and if the answer is he would have to repeat a year, that would damage his self esteem even more than trying to adjust at the tail end of a year. Academically he will probably do fine coming in even now at Deal, especially if they put him back a year in math because of the Geometry. Just don't let them put him in Geometry, because he probably does not know enough yet to pass the class coming in so late. Good luck and best wishes.
From OP - Thanks so much! Before I read this we had recently done much of what you said. I appreciate hearing the voice of another Basis parent(s) who see the same challenges we see. We think we have an answer and we thinkit will work out emotionally for him as well as academically. We will see what happens in high school but I am aiming for a private school where I think he can show his talents but also get closer attention and recognition for his abilities. We'll see.
Anonymous
06/01/2015 17:26
Subject: Re:BASIS to Deal?
I spoke to the math guru at BASIS and he said that the proof that Saxon math works is all of the 5's on AP Calculus at BASIS schools. Plus they have very high pass rates in all other AP exams.
Anonymous
06/01/2015 16:41
Subject: BASIS to Deal?
Anonymous wrote:However, you guys are fooling yourselves if you think that BASIS is rooting them in the math fundamentals. They move too fast for it. My child can do the advanced concepts and I KNOW he is really slow on some basic concepts. I trusted the system last year and assumed he was being reinforced in these basics. Early this year, I discovered that he was not and am working with him. He resists because "he knows all the advanced concepts" and does not want to accept that what I am reinforcing is important. He went in strong in writing because his elementary had writer's workshop daily but he has regressed there. Keep you heads in the sand. Being able to do something on paper and understanding the application of it are two different things. I'm not happy because I am considering putting him in summer school next summer and he works to hard with good grades to have to spend five weeks of his summer in academics that he should have learned doing the school year.
Can the PP explain what basic concepts their child doesn't know? And, as a parent, how did you find out that he doesn't know them? I'm sincere in asking this question because as a fellow BASIS parent, I look at my child's math grade (which is decent) and I look at their textbook (which looks really hard to me) and I feel like they're learning a whole lot of math. I wouldn't know what to even ask my child to find out if he doesn't really know what he's doing.
I would also like to know this as a non good at math BASIS parent whose child is doing well at math but has no way to evaluate "basic concepts." What do you mean? What "basic concepts" are our kids missing? I get that if they leave before completing Precal they are in trouble because of the failure to do a separate year of Geometry. But what else?
I agree about the writing issue although it seems to me they are getting better, but can we go back to the math here? My kids seem really solid in math but I have no way to evaluate it either............
What "basic concepts?" What "advanced concepts" Could you please be more concrete? Offer an example? What level math is your child in?
Anonymous
05/31/2015 08:48
Subject: Re:BASIS to Deal?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:sorry conspiracy theorist referring to the "if they don't want you, you will be pushed out."
No social promotion and no special favors and the CJ is pretty clear when your child is in trouble.
But back to the math issue - what "basic concepts" are you talking about and what level math was your child in at the time?
Do you really believe in what you are saying?
Another poster here. In the 3 years at BASIS we have not seen any special favors at BASIS at all. Also, the grading is based overwhelmingly on objective assessments. Additionally all the syllabi are very specific on what constitutes the grade a student receives and usually tests and quizzes make up the majority of the grade.
Anonymous
05/31/2015 04:12
Subject: Re:BASIS to Deal?
Anonymous wrote:sorry conspiracy theorist referring to the "if they don't want you, you will be pushed out."
No social promotion and no special favors and the CJ is pretty clear when your child is in trouble.
But back to the math issue - what "basic concepts" are you talking about and what level math was your child in at the time?
Do you really believe in what you are saying?
Anonymous
05/30/2015 20:54
Subject: Re:BASIS to Deal?
sorry conspiracy theorist referring to the "if they don't want you, you will be pushed out."
No social promotion and no special favors and the CJ is pretty clear when your child is in trouble.
But back to the math issue - what "basic concepts" are you talking about and what level math was your child in at the time?
No social promotion and no special favors and the CJ is pretty clear when your child is in trouble.
But back to the math issue - what "basic concepts" are you talking about and what level math was your child in at the time?
Anonymous
05/30/2015 20:51
Subject: BASIS to Deal?
We are not staying for high school and my child aggressively wants to go to college. It is also nice to know that 8th grade science does labs, can't wait. However, you guys are fooling yourselves if you think that BASIS is rooting them in the math fundamentals. They move too fast for it. My child can do the advanced concepts and I KNOW he is really slow on some basic concepts. I trusted the system last year and assumed he was being reinforced in these basics. Early this year, I discovered that he was not and am working with him. He resists because "he knows all the advanced concepts" and does not want to accept that what I am reinforcing is important. He went in strong in writing because his elementary had writer's workshop daily but he has regressed there. Keep you heads in the sand. Being able to do something on paper and understanding the application of it are two different things. I'm not happy because I am considering putting him in summer school next summer and he works to hard with good grades to have to spend five weeks of his summer in academics that he should have learned doing the school year.
Can the PP explain what basic concepts their child doesn't know? And, as a parent, how did you find out that he doesn't know them? I'm sincere in asking this question because as a fellow BASIS parent, I look at my child's math grade (which is decent) and I look at their textbook (which looks really hard to me) and I feel like they're learning a whole lot of math. I wouldn't know what to even ask my child to find out if he doesn't really know what he's doing.
Ok now the conspiracy theorist has appeared. This is also hogwash in my opinion.
I would also like to know this as a non good at math BASIS parent whose child is doing well at math but has no way to evaluate "basic concepts." What do you mean? What "basic concepts" are our kids missing? I get that if they leave before completing Precal they are in trouble because of the failure to do a separate year of Geometry. But what else?
Anonymous
05/30/2015 17:40
Subject: BASIS to Deal?
Anonymous wrote:pp, glad to hear your child is doing well and that you do not mind your child not having sports. Obviously the school wants you to be part of its community and wants you to be a happy parent. So the schol will help your child with extra tutoring, extra chances to get better grades and soon.
But how would you feel if your very hard working child started all of a sudden getting lousy grades and you were never told about it and you were caught off guard? How would you feel when your child goes to mastery defense but is unable to take the test for whatever reason. Wouldn't you think you were being targeted? Well this is how BDC is getting rid of students on the unwanted list. Has anyone heard of such things happening at Deal?
This is nonsense. All teachers are accessible via email or via their weekly parent teacher hour if you have questions about your child. Also, grades are regularly posted in the CJ. Additionally if you take the time to look through your kid's accordion file, then you will see test and quiz results too.
As for mastery defense, there are opportunities for mastery defense offered 4 days a week before and after school. The weekly tests also have mastery defense questions as well. The math teachers offer student hours 9 hours each week before and after school and every math teacher is available to help your kid.
My kid has done mastery defense just about every week without any problems whatsoever.
Anonymous
05/30/2015 14:35
Subject: BASIS to Deal?
pp, glad to hear your child is doing well and that you do not mind your child not having sports. Obviously the school wants you to be part of its community and wants you to be a happy parent. So the schol will help your child with extra tutoring, extra chances to get better grades and soon.
But how would you feel if your very hard working child started all of a sudden getting lousy grades and you were never told about it and you were caught off guard? How would you feel when your child goes to mastery defense but is unable to take the test for whatever reason. Wouldn't you think you were being targeted? Well this is how BDC is getting rid of students on the unwanted list. Has anyone heard of such things happening at Deal?
But how would you feel if your very hard working child started all of a sudden getting lousy grades and you were never told about it and you were caught off guard? How would you feel when your child goes to mastery defense but is unable to take the test for whatever reason. Wouldn't you think you were being targeted? Well this is how BDC is getting rid of students on the unwanted list. Has anyone heard of such things happening at Deal?
Anonymous
05/30/2015 01:18
Subject: BASIS to Deal?
Anonymous wrote:Totally agree with pp about it being BS-my kid is honors almost every term and without question all A's and therefore always 90's club, and has akready decided he wants to attend MIT, but he wont stay for high school. He too has regressed in his writing ability. Not everyone in DC with great academic aspirations stays at BAsis through HS, which is why kids at Wilson and Walls and privates end up at such great colleges-Basis has yet to graduate a class, so who knows how many will end up graduating from BDC to even go to college.
sorry for my single sloppy sentence. Absolutely did not mean that kids who leave BDC here are not college bound or do not want to go to college.. Was talking about the European system and the original premise as explained by Olga Block, which is a reality there with O levels and A levels not here - . I do think the Basis kids will go to college though.
The reality here is that about 40% of kids at all the BASIS schools leave after 8th grade for a variety of reasons - many just want a different type of high school experience, larger, with sports, whatever. Here they absolutely go to Walls and Wilson and will go on to great colleges - my kid also wants to go to MIT. Did not mean to insult the students who decide to leave. Again I screwed up conflating two ideas I was in a rush and I am sorry. It was not what I meant to say at all. I'm sure the same is true in AZ, that the kids who leave go to college. BDC is a new school and it has had its growing pains but for a new school I think it is doing pretty well.
I like Saxon math because my kid appears to know math. I think Basis knows how to do a lot of things right, and don't want high school sports. I think we are going to stay for high school. I like the friends my kid has made as well. I think most of the science classes have been good, some of the teachers are great. Don't completely agree with the passive nature of the instruction.
And agree with you that English has been terrible and also don't know what to do about this in terms of my child because they also have regressed. The 5th grade teacher is pretty much teaching the basics from what I have heard. But I agree with the other parent about feeling frustrated on this point because my kid is getting good grades and working hard so it seems unfair and is difficult to deal with the whole writing issue but we are going to have to do something this summer at home.
Anyway, again, I just reread my post which was written far too quickly and I am really sorry that I stupidly said that kids leave BDC because they don't want to go to college. NOT what I meant at all, but definitely what I wrote. Decided not to leave this alone because I sound like an a$$hole and it was a mistake. Please accept my apologies.
Saxon math appears to be working at the other Basis schools and I think it is working for us.
Anonymous
05/29/2015 10:31
Subject: BASIS to Deal?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:^^ doesn't all of DCPS use the same textbooks for math, i.e., not Saxon? The attack was on the Saxon method of teaching math with geometry mixed in instead of as a separate class, which is why BASIS expats end up getting screwed when they return to DCPS at Deal or Walls or wherever. The PP thinks BASIS goes too fast, but all they are doing is getting through each of the Saxon textbooks from front to back in one year.
They go too fast, go one chapter after the other, sometimes skip chapters expecting the kids to do it on their own. The aim is to cover the book.
As for the pp whose kid is doing really great, it does not mean much.
Saxon books have lessons, not chapters and they do a lesson each day. The class my DS is in didn't skip lessons. I have no idea of the exact number, but I think they got through about 105 - 110 lessons out of something like 130 total. I can kind of see how a teacher might skip a lesson though and it wouldn't be the end of the world. Each lesson has 30 problems and most of the questions are reviewing concepts from previous lessons.