Anonymous wrote:Parents sure can't parent anymore and you look like fools when your kids look like tramps.

I don't acknowledge that as a possibility... because I don't think anyone looks like a "tramp" ever, no matter what they wear. What the heck is that anyway, besides some judgmental sexist nonsense? I'll be happy as long as my DD has the confidence in herself to simply choose what she wants to wear and feels comfortable in regardless of what others, including me, think of the outfit or what people with narrow standards may think of her. Why should anyone else's opinion be relevant if they aren't the one wearing the clothes? If someone thinks I'm a fool because I've raised a DD who makes her own decisions on her own attire, that's someone whose entire thought process is so opposed to mine that I don't care for their opinion anyway.

Anonymous wrote:Parents sure can't parent anymore and you look like fools when your kids look like tramps.

Eh. I'll worry about me; you worry about you.

Parents sure can't parent anymore and you look like fools when your kids look like tramps.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, OP. This has nothing to do with slut shaming, but rather teaching vulnerable youngsters that (a) how they present themselves matters and (b) we live in a pedophilic society that sexualizes and objectifies children, especially girls. Of course girls and women should be able to live free of fear of victimization, but this is the world we live in. It just makes sense to keep butts, vaginas, and breasts covered.



I prefer this sentence: Girls and women should be able to live free of fear of victimization.

Yes. I also believe there should be no war and no poverty, but alas, we haven't put an end to them yet.
So, in the meantime, I will teach my MS-aged daughter to dress modestly, so that she doesn't give anyone the wrong impression. And I will teach my HS son to do the same.

What impression? And are you worried about her reputation or her safety? Because it is NOT a survivor's fault for being sexually assaulted or having any other crime committed against them, regardless of what they were wearing. What causes rape and sexual assaults? People without an understanding of consent and boundaries, and people who feel entitled regardless of another person's rights... in short, rapists cause rape. I've seen no evidence anywhere that "dressing modestly" prevents rape or that wearing more revealing clothes causes it, if that's what you were worried about.

Teaching your DD that she is responsible for altering what she chooses to wear based on the chance of someone else being a jerk or a criminal, however, might cause a problem in terms of the message you are sending her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, OP. This has nothing to do with slut shaming, but rather teaching vulnerable youngsters that (a) how they present themselves matters and (b) we live in a pedophilic society that sexualizes and objectifies children, especially girls. Of course girls and women should be able to live free of fear of victimization, but this is the world we live in. It just makes sense to keep butts, vaginas, and breasts covered.

I prefer this sentence: Girls and women should be able to live free of fear of victimization.

Yes. I also believe there should be no war and no poverty, but alas, we haven't put an end to them yet.
So, in the meantime, I will teach my MS-aged daughter to dress modestly, so that she doesn't give anyone the wrong impression. And I will teach my HS son to do the same.

So she doesn't give anyone the wrong impression? (What wrong impression, by the way?) Or so that she doesn't get victimized? Dressing "modestly" doesn't prevent you from being victimized. It doesn't even reduce your chances of being victimized. The only thing that prevents victimization is not encountering a victimizer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree, OP. This has nothing to do with slut shaming, but rather teaching vulnerable youngsters that (a) how they present themselves matters and (b) we live in a pedophilic society that sexualizes and objectifies children, especially girls. Of course girls and women should be able to live free of fear of victimization, but this is the world we live in. It just makes sense to keep butts, vaginas, and breasts covered.



I prefer this sentence: Girls and women should be able to live free of fear of victimization.

Yes. I also believe there should be no war and no poverty, but alas, we haven't put an end to them yet.
So, in the meantime, I will teach my MS-aged daughter to dress modestly, so that she doesn't give anyone the wrong impression. And I will teach my HS son to do the same.

Not the poster you're responding to. That's a valid choice, I guess, but I personally chose the exact opposite tactic. I believe that teaching my kids such a thing would simply be buying into and perpetuating the messed up way our culture treats such things, so I won't. I instead tell them the reality of what some people may think, or the impression some people may form based on different types of clothes, but I don't try to impose my modesty standards on anyone else including my kids. Instead I simply tell my children they can choose what they're comfortable wearing, but they need to understand the rules and expectations and the likely results of making choices outside of that. There's nothing wrong with pretty much whatever anyone wants to wear, in most cases.

What even is modesty anyway, or what should it be besides each person's individual standards of comfort? For some people, modest is covered from head to toe, others believe in covering their hair, or females not wearing pants, or skirts must be past the knee, or shorts must be fingertip length, strapless tops are ok versus spaghetti straps versus wide straps versus sleeves, no cleavage or some or totally nude on top is fine... these are all *someone's* standards for female modesty and appropriateness... and I don't have the right to impose my own personal standards on those who believe differently, so neither should anyone else. I actually kind of hate the word modest. It means little, objectively, but always gets so charged and frequently becomes sexist.

In general our house rule is the kids either have to obey the school dress code or make a stand to me for why it's wrong to do so, at which point if it's an ethical issue for them we will figure out an alternative somehow. That hasn't come up. They almost always follow the dress code and only very rarely violate it and take the consequences.

Anonymous wrote:I agree, OP. This has nothing to do with slut shaming, but rather teaching vulnerable youngsters that (a) how they present themselves matters and (b) we live in a pedophilic society that sexualizes and objectifies children, especially girls. Of course girls and women should be able to live free of fear of victimization, but this is the world we live in. It just makes sense to keep butts, vaginas, and breasts covered.



I prefer this sentence: Girls and women should be able to live free of fear of victimization.

Yes. I also believe there should be no war and no poverty, but alas, we haven't put an end to them yet.
So, in the meantime, I will teach my MS-aged daughter to dress modestly, so that she doesn't give anyone the wrong impression. And I will teach my HS son to do the same.

Anonymous wrote:I agree, OP. This has nothing to do with slut shaming, but rather teaching vulnerable youngsters that (a) how they present themselves matters and (b) we live in a pedophilic society that sexualizes and objectifies children, especially girls. Of course girls and women should be able to live free of fear of victimization, but this is the world we live in. It just makes sense to keep butts, vaginas, and breasts covered.

I prefer this sentence: Girls and women should be able to live free of fear of victimization.

I agree, OP. This has nothing to do with slut shaming, but rather teaching vulnerable youngsters that (a) how they present themselves matters and (b) we live in a pedophilic society that sexualizes and objectifies children, especially girls. Of course girls and women should be able to live free of fear of victimization, but this is the world we live in. It just makes sense to keep butts, vaginas, and breasts covered.

Anonymous wrote:Not OP but MS girl mom, and as moms of all MS girls know, developmentally they are steeped in pack-mode. The world will end if they don't replicate what their alpha-girl of fashion is doing. It's very hard to get your kid to behave if the others don't. If other girls, or especially the alpha girl, covers her bum, then it gives them permission to cover their bums as well.

Unfortunately the alpha girl of fashion often gets to be alpha in the group because she's the least restricted of the girls, and the most plugged into the mass media's idea of what's acceptable dress for MS girls. She's watching shows that the other kids are not allowed to, and uses that information as power to attain alpha status.

And you, the parent, are chopped liver in all of this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Starting in on the slut shaming there a wee early, don't you think, OP?

Not OP, but wow, over-react much? The whole point is that it's inappropriate school wear to have your ass-ets exposed like you're at a video shoot. It's middle school for heavens sake, why is it ok with so many parents that their girls are exposing their rears? Fashion or no fashion?

And yes, I feel the same about boys exposing their underwear, and say the same to boys all the time. School is not a nightclub or party.

Which is exactly why, if OP has a problem, OP should talk to the person who is in charge of the school. If OP is not in charge of my child's school, my child's clothes are none of OP's business.

Anonymous wrote:

The clothes are not sexually suggestive. The interpretation made by people viewing the clothes is the problem. There are cultures where women can be topless and it's not a problem, but here a girl showing a little too much cleavage is wearing something inappropriate. It's not the top - it's the observer.

Why should you have to teach your child that the casual sundress she prefers to wear without an undershirt might flash "side boob" and that someone else might "think" something about her. How wrong is that? Your child is now responsible for the disgusting cultural acceptance that any stranger can sexualize her? And judge her for his own inappropriate thoughts?

As the parent of a daughter I understand the concerns. But I am also constantly at war with myself over them. The disgusting behavior or thoughts of others are not her responsibility.

It's also the body the top is on. The same top can be "modest" on a small-chested woman but "immodest" on a large-chested woman. That's one major reason I don't like school dress codes -- because they're frequently enforced on girls/women as body codes instead of clothing codes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If OP is speaking as person from a school, it is his/her business?

If OP is the principal of a middle school, OP should not be wasting OP's time on DCUM telling parents of middle-school girls to not let their daughters wear short shorts.

What about it OP is a principal on a vacation day? Or a teacher on a vacation day? Or a counselor on a vacation day? Or on a planning period? Or needing a brain break as we all sometimes do?

Anonymous wrote:Starting in on the slut shaming there a wee early, don't you think, OP?

Not OP, but wow, over-react much? The whole point is that it's inappropriate school wear to have your ass-ets exposed like you're at a video shoot. It's middle school for heavens sake, why is it ok with so many parents that their girls are exposing their rears? Fashion or no fashion?

And yes, I feel the same about boys exposing their underwear, and say the same to boys all the time. School is not a nightclub or party.

Anonymous wrote:
I'm the Bingo PP. I think you're right but at some point the girls have to be taught that sexually suggestive clothes is sexually suggestive. They don't inherently know that. They don't know that some dance moves are mimicking sex acts unless you tell them so. My DD has a lot of body confidence and I love that and she will attract unwanted attention in the future as we all have. She needs to have as much information upon which to base her decisions as possible. She doesn't have as much world experience as I do in this department, so some explaining and guidance is necessary.

The clothes are not sexually suggestive. The interpretation made by people viewing the clothes is the problem. There are cultures where women can be topless and it's not a problem, but here a girl showing a little too much cleavage is wearing something inappropriate. It's not the top - it's the observer.

Why should you have to teach your child that the casual sundress she prefers to wear without an undershirt might flash "side boob" and that someone else might "think" something about her. How wrong is that? Your child is now responsible for the disgusting cultural acceptance that any stranger can sexualize her? And judge her for his own inappropriate thoughts?

As the parent of a daughter I understand the concerns. But I am also constantly at war with myself over them. The disgusting behavior or thoughts of others are not her responsibility.