Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:29     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I would address it matter of factly and in terms he can understand. I would NOT shame him as he is too little to recognize what he is saying. I WOULD ask him where he got the idea. Kids do come up with crazy, inappropriate things on their own but that is very specific and he probably either heard or misunderstood something.


+1 to all of this. 9 times out of 10 when my child has said something like this it came from someone at school. These times serve as an opportunity to say "some people think X, but we do not, and it is wrong to judge people based on where they live, what they look like, their abilities, their religion, etc." We make it very clear that we will not abide such judgmental talk or discriminatory behavior in our house. You have to lead by example and you can do that by being matter of fact, not by shaming. You want your child to talk to you so you can share your values - not shut them down with shame or punishment.

OH MY GOOODNESS PEOPLE WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT SHAMING THEIR KIDS -- WHO - WHO SAID IT PLEASE -- WHO SAID IT??
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:28     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
That's great, but try raising 4 biracial kids. The lines of black and white aren't so subtle to most of the outside world, on both sides of the coin.

Just saw an article this am that Michelle Obama's mom had concerns about her daughter marrying a biracial man. Google it, I am a Luddite and can't post well.


What happens outside of our homes is not controllable in many cases.

Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:28     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
Anonymous wrote:12:11, on 4, if the kid learns he can't say those things to you, the parent, but he keeps thinking them, then we have a serious problem. If she can't have an ongoing dialogue with him about these ideas she won't be able to ensure he's gotten to the truth of equality. That's why a number of us are counseling against being so emphatic that you shame the kid into silence with his mother, who is the only person to whom he seems to have made these remarks.

HUH? I don't get the idea of telling someone "that's not how we talk about people", "that's not what we say about people" is shaming a kid. ESPECIALLY, when all along I, and other posters, have said it is part of an ongoing dialogue and education. That just seems very off to me. I tell my kids all sorts of stuff that we do not do, and teach them what and how to do the right thing. There is no shame involved. Where in the world did the shame come in?
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:26     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
Anonymous wrote:I would address it matter of factly and in terms he can understand. I would NOT shame him as he is too little to recognize what he is saying. I WOULD ask him where he got the idea. Kids do come up with crazy, inappropriate things on their own but that is very specific and he probably either heard or misunderstood something.


+1 to all of this. 9 times out of 10 when my child has said something like this it came from someone at school. These times serve as an opportunity to say "some people think X, but we do not, and it is wrong to judge people based on where they live, what they look like, their abilities, their religion, etc." We make it very clear that we will not abide such judgmental talk or discriminatory behavior in our house. You have to lead by example and you can do that by being matter of fact, not by shaming. You want your child to talk to you so you can share your values - not shut them down with shame or punishment.
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:25     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
Anonymous wrote:White woman married 26 years to AA man with 4 kids.
First, I would ask my child where the whole light and dark skin issue is coming from. It is coming from someone, and your child is old enough to tell you.

Secondly, most white kids don't say "dark" or "light" skin color. They say "white" or "black."

AA people do use "light" and "dark" skin tone to make judgements on physical attractiveness and desirability. Have you thougt that perhaps AA children are using those words and your child is picking it up from them?

I would def ask my child where those judgements on skin color are coming from.


This is not true. I'm AA and I use light and dark simply as a physical descriptor. It has nothing to do with attractiveness or desirability. Some may think one is more desirable, but simply saying someone is dark or light has nothing to with any of what you said.
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:20     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
White parent here. When we talk about skin color we say lighter and darker. I've never actually said "white" or "black" because those aren't accurate descriptions. My DH has dark olive skin and I'm super pale so we have a lot of shades in our family alone. That made it easier to extend to other people. Sometimes skin is lighter, sometimes darker. No big deal.

We can get into ethnicities and cultural differences as my kids become aware of them. When they were very little they just talked about the differences they could see.
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:19     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:He may be getting it from another kid in his class. My 4 year old has never mentioned anything about race but I do notice she says things that I never say. Nothing bad but just things I can tell she has probably picked up from other kids at school. Racism is a learned behavior so he is picking it up from someone. Maybe another family member made a comment?

But you do need to talk with him and tell him what racism is and that it is wrong and hurtful.

Racism may be learned but categorizing things by color is very normal and natural. Just because kids are noticing color or even saying things that sound racist doesn't mean they necessarily picked it up from someone else.


what her son said goes beyond categorizing. He specifically said he will not play with a child if they have dark skin. So yes her son is displaying racist behavior. If you think that is not racist, then I don't know what else to say to you.
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:16     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
12:11, on 4, if the kid learns he can't say those things to you, the parent, but he keeps thinking them, then we have a serious problem. If she can't have an ongoing dialogue with him about these ideas she won't be able to ensure he's gotten to the truth of equality. That's why a number of us are counseling against being so emphatic that you shame the kid into silence with his mother, who is the only person to whom he seems to have made these remarks.
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:14     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have tips on how to begin talking about race and diversity with preschool-aged kids?


OP don't stress about finding the best book that explains and illustrates the intricacies of race and diversity and don't stress about trying to follow the specific steps most recommended by child psychologists to open the discussion about race and diversity...just start the friggin conversation already.
It's not going to be a one-time-and-all-taken-care-of-talk --- not if you want any genuine results that is.
It's going to be an ongoing two-way conversation between you and your child where sometimes you answer his questions and sometimes you take a moment to point out microaggressions he may not notice.
It's going to be an ongoing two-way conversation between you and your child where sometimes he's expressing his own opinions and sometimes you take a moment to explaining your own implicit biases.
Much like parenting as a whole there is no specific script and there is no surefire method, but also just like parenting as a whole you are the key.
It's not about what some author says, its not about what the Top-10-Tips in some magazine are...its about you.
It's about your love and your support and your presence and your guidance and your diligence toward raising your child to become an objective, inclusive, and respectful adult.

I think that you are right about starting the conversation, but I think it is also important to read up on racism and the politics of color. Sometimes, as adults you do not realize how the things we do and say and systems from which we benefit can sometimes marginalize/generalize the people we are trying to be considerate of . In other words, do some self-educating on the topic because we don't always realize and recognize our own insensitivities and prejudices, even tho that is not our intention.
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:11     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just to be clear, I'm not 11:36 but I am the person the angry hashtag user was attacking. A number of us here disagree and we have different ways of expressing it.

I'm not quite clear who you are saying you are, but I am 11:11. I want to make it clear that I am not angry, I am frustrated, very frustrated. I am allowed to be that. Using the label of "angry" is an easy default used way often when the express deeply felt emotions, including frustration, disappointment and sometimes sadness.
Honestly, all I was trying to express is that there is nothing wrong with telling a small child, in no uncertain terms, that we do not judge a person's value based on external characteristics. And yes, hitting someone and causing physical harm is a good analogy. Kids understand "hurt", physically and emotionally. There are times when you have to tell a child to "stop" doing something and provide the deeper and broader explanation. Conversations about race, and the development of morals/values around race is a lifelong endeavour. It just amazes me that people would think it is damaging to tell a child to not place personal value based on racial characteristics and that if they do it is a natural stage that we must tread just so verrrryyy lightly because we could hurt their feelings by re-directing that line of thinking. I am black, my child is black and from early on we taught DC that EVERYONE is different from one another and that we celebrate EVERYONE'S uniqueness and that we endeavour not to identify people by race or to assess their value based on race. And yes, I have no problem saying that I find it arrogant and often a manifestation of white privilege for someone who is not a person of color, to tell a person of color how to discuss race/racism/politics of color in this society. And the poster saying that their kindergartner has black friends. SMDH, having friends of color does not preclude anyone from being racist. People can be racist and have filipino/cambodian/black/dominican/mexican friends. It so happens that they see that individual as "different' from the rest. No, your DC is not racist, but for you to even not understand that having friends of color eliminates racism shows how very uneducated you are on the topic.


No one said having a black friend means you aren't racist. I was encouraging the OP to use her child's black friend as an example in how to think about race and equality, as a way of making the child see that skin color doesn't determine who the person is. The fact that you totally misread that I think shows that you are assuming we are all speaking from a bad place. I also never suggested that the reason to not just shut down the kid's comments was out of worry for his feelings. The concern here is not just teaching a child to not say hurtful things, we all want the child not to THINK those things either. My arguments have been about getting to that goal successfully.


1) 10:37 said this: "This kid has friends and role models who aren't white. He's not about to launch a hate campaign. "
I don't know if you are 10:37, but that is the comment I was referring to

2) No one said anything about anyone coming from a "bad place"

3) Exactly what have I been saying that does not indicate a strategy or desire to successfully get to the goal of raising kids who are not racist?

4) How is telling a child that there are certain things we do not say preclude successfully teaching them to not be racist????
Please to explain?
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:06     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have tips on how to begin talking about race and diversity with preschool-aged kids?


OP don't stress about finding the best book that explains and illustrates the intricacies of race and diversity and don't stress about trying to follow the specific steps most recommended by child psychologists to open the discussion about race and diversity...just start the friggin conversation already.
It's not going to be a one-time-and-all-taken-care-of-talk --- not if you want any genuine results that is.
It's going to be an ongoing two-way conversation between you and your child where sometimes you answer his questions and sometimes you take a moment to point out microaggressions he may not notice.
It's going to be an ongoing two-way conversation between you and your child where sometimes he's expressing his own opinions and sometimes you take a moment to explaining your own implicit biases.
Much like parenting as a whole there is no specific script and there is no surefire method, but also just like parenting as a whole you are the key.
It's not about what some author says, its not about what the Top-10-Tips in some magazine are...its about you.
It's about your love and your support and your presence and your guidance and your diligence toward raising your child to become an objective, inclusive, and respectful adult.
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:05     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
Anonymous wrote:White woman married 26 years to AA man with 4 kids.
First, I would ask my child where the whole light and dark skin issue is coming from. It is coming from someone, and your child is old enough to tell you.

Secondly, most white kids don't say "dark" or "light" skin color. They say "white" or "black."

AA people do use "light" and "dark" skin tone to make judgements on physical attractiveness and desirability. Have you thougt that perhaps AA children are using those words and your child is picking it up from them?

I would def ask my child where those judgements on skin color are coming from.

Great point. It will be easier to address if you know where this is coming from.
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:04     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Holy shit, if my kid said that her entire world would stop. "How would you feel if all the kids with the coolest toys wouldn't let you play because you're white? We are all the same on the inside. We all bleed red blood. Our own president is black. You really wouldn't play with his daughters because they have dark skin?"

I would make it VERY clear RIGHT AWAY that we don't treat people poorly or ignore them because of how they are born!


Whoa. Try therapy.


I don't need therapy. My kid does not get to walk around unintentionally practicing to be in the KKK. We are Jewish, and people can't see that just by looking at us. We are lucky in that regard, because a lot of the same people who hate blacks hate Jews. When I overheard my kid singsong "No boys allowed" at age 4, I zipped right over and pulled her away from the playground structure to have a serious talk. We do NOT exclude people for how they were born.


No one is disagreeing that we won't allow our children to grow up to be racists. The question is what is the best method to get there. You think that fast and dramatic action is best, and apparently you think it is the best way to show your own non-racist bona fides, but I think your method can be counterproductive and my goal isn't to prove to others that my child isn't racist, my goal is to make him not racist. I don't want my child to not be racist because I told him so. I want him to know and understand human equality. OP can ask her child, calmly and quietly, if the child would be a different person with different eye color? Would mommy be different if she had a different skin color? No and no. OP's child has a best friend who is black; OP can ask the child how sad he would be if he hadn't become friends with that child. We can have a war on racism without bombing the crap out of small children.

OMG ! How is anyone "bombing" small children? It's telling them and teaching them HOW TO TREAT PEOPLE. Just like if my kid was hitting someone with a stick -- quick response of "Stop, we don't do that, it can hurt the person" and you have a deeper discussion about empathy -- one fit for their level of discussion.
But - yes, it is important to let them know from the beginning that those kinds of comments and judgements are not tolerated, acceptable or "good".
Wow! You seem like a particularly sensitive and naive person. Must be nice, guess you were never the kid who got comments related to your color, race, hair texture, etc. If so, I would venture that you would have a broader understanding of the entire issue.
#whiteprivilege
#whitepeopletellingpeopleofcolorhowtoteachwhitepeopletonotberacist


Shut up, you #angryblackwomanwhoassumeseveryonewhodisagreeswithheriswhite

Jesus. I am so relieved you don't interact with any children but your own anymore. You're toxic.

You have me confused with another poster, who I assume was some kind of teacher. Who says I am black, I certainly did not. Black people are not the only people of color you know -- or maybe you don't know. SMDH!


Shake your damn head all you want. Be sure to ponder why you are such a sanctimonious bitch while you're at it.

What exactly makes me sanctimonious, but not you? You jumped all over the other posters who said that you need to be clear and firm when telling kids about how "not" to talk about/refer to other people. As if telling them "No, you don't say you Matt is "fat" " is somehow going to scar little Johnny. Or that by saying that, you are not also going further and actively teaching them empathy. You were quite upset that other posters were very clear about telling their kids that behaviour is wrong. But I am somehow sanctimonious?
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:03     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
White woman married 26 years to AA man with 4 kids.
First, I would ask my child where the whole light and dark skin issue is coming from. It is coming from someone, and your child is old enough to tell you.

Secondly, most white kids don't say "dark" or "light" skin color. They say "white" or "black."

AA people do use "light" and "dark" skin tone to make judgements on physical attractiveness and desirability. Have you thougt that perhaps AA children are using those words and your child is picking it up from them?

I would def ask my child where those judgements on skin color are coming from.
Anonymous
Post 03/18/2015 12:01     Subject: How to talk race and diversity with a preschooler?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Just to be clear, I'm not 11:36 but I am the person the angry hashtag user was attacking. A number of us here disagree and we have different ways of expressing it.

I'm not quite clear who you are saying you are, but I am 11:11. I want to make it clear that I am not angry, I am frustrated, very frustrated. I am allowed to be that. Using the label of "angry" is an easy default used way often when the express deeply felt emotions, including frustration, disappointment and sometimes sadness.
Honestly, all I was trying to express is that there is nothing wrong with telling a small child, in no uncertain terms, that we do not judge a person's value based on external characteristics. And yes, hitting someone and causing physical harm is a good analogy. Kids understand "hurt", physically and emotionally. There are times when you have to tell a child to "stop" doing something and provide the deeper and broader explanation. Conversations about race, and the development of morals/values around race is a lifelong endeavour. It just amazes me that people would think it is damaging to tell a child to not place personal value based on racial characteristics and that if they do it is a natural stage that we must tread just so verrrryyy lightly because we could hurt their feelings by re-directing that line of thinking. I am black, my child is black and from early on we taught DC that EVERYONE is different from one another and that we celebrate EVERYONE'S uniqueness and that we endeavour not to identify people by race or to assess their value based on race. And yes, I have no problem saying that I find it arrogant and often a manifestation of white privilege for someone who is not a person of color, to tell a person of color how to discuss race/racism/politics of color in this society. And the poster saying that their kindergartner has black friends. SMDH, having friends of color does not preclude anyone from being racist. People can be racist and have filipino/cambodian/black/dominican/mexican friends. It so happens that they see that individual as "different' from the rest. No, your DC is not racist, but for you to even not understand that having friends of color eliminates racism shows how very uneducated you are on the topic.


No one said having a black friend means you aren't racist. I was encouraging the OP to use her child's black friend as an example in how to think about race and equality, as a way of making the child see that skin color doesn't determine who the person is. The fact that you totally misread that I think shows that you are assuming we are all speaking from a bad place. I also never suggested that the reason to not just shut down the kid's comments was out of worry for his feelings. The concern here is not just teaching a child to not say hurtful things, we all want the child not to THINK those things either. My arguments have been about getting to that goal successfully.