And sorry, I meant no connection to "shades of grey" the ridiculous novel. That was purely coincidental. -- or Freudian maybe...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm on board with how this could happen, sure. I guess it's the definition of rape. If someone changes their mind, isn't conscious or isn't actively saying "YES"then it's rape. period. And that applies to a man or a woman.

So - how do we feel about a woman who is saying "no,no, no" but actively undressing, groping a man, and doing all of the work to make intercourse happen. Is it still rape because of the "no" in the scenario?

Yes. And you put her in a cab or just walk away.

I just find that the letter of the law can't really extend to all of the nuances and confusion and miscommunication that can take place during sex. I realize consent must be given, but I also don't think a man should forcefully STOP a woman who is doing everything within her power to have sex with him except for saying the word "no." and risk hurting her to stop the act from occurring. You just "put her in a cab" or "walk away" right? But, it's not that easy, it wasn't that easy for OP's 200 lb man to do - that's what YOU'RE arguing here right?

Everyone wants to act like there's a black and a white here, but there are more shades of grey than I think people want to be comfortable with and that the law can possibly encompass. A petite woman "raping" a 200 lb man, is an area that feels a little more grey to me than if you switched the roles there. That's a fact - and I don't see why we can't say that and have that conversation without being called idiotic, misinformed people.

Perhaps the answer is both parties sign consent forms before they get naked and start having sex? However, if either one wants to stop and says so to the other, the signed consent form wouldn't matter. I guess it matters that both trust each other.

Anonymous wrote:And ya - rape aside a the pretending to be boyfriend thing is just kookoo

Probably the guilt of "we had sex so we must date"

Anonymous wrote:How does a guy have sex when he's passed out drunk?

Men can be physically excited easily. It does not mean consent. I've seen my husband with a boner in his sleep. That does not mean I can jump right on it (although I'm sure he wouldn't mind!)

Anonymous wrote:I'm on board with how this could happen, sure. I guess it's the definition of rape. If someone changes their mind, isn't conscious or isn't actively saying "YES"then it's rape. period. And that applies to a man or a woman.

So - how do we feel about a woman who is saying "no,no, no" but actively undressing, groping a man, and doing all of the work to make intercourse happen. Is it still rape because of the "no" in the scenario?

Yes. And you put her in a cab or just walk away.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know...male or female, if the story is essentially that they had consensual sex but were really tired (and then voluntarily went to the person's house for a second round of consensual-but-tired sex) and then dated the person for 8 months because of a guilt trip? Nope.

As a woman, I want to feel empathy for this man.

My truth is that it takes enough of my mental and physical energy to navigate the waters of interacting with men to protect my own safety from being sexually assaulted, whether that is going out of my way to avoid cat-called while walking down the street, groped on the metro, hit-on at work, making sure I am sober to give consent to sex or knowing when to trust a man I date to not rape me, to then also add to MY responsibility as a 5'3" 125 pound woman, that I could one day be accused of raping a 200 pound, 6 foot tall man who has a months- long relationship with me, later to claim it was all forced and against his will. Exhausting.

Nice to know that you think being small absolves you from the responsibility of the law.

Consent is consent - whether you are 120 lbs and your victim is 200 lbs, or vice versa. If the other party has consumed alcohol in enough quantity that their judgement is in question, and you haven't - then you are in a position that they may not be able to legally consent. That has nothing to do with size, weight, gender, race.. And everything to do with the fact that they are legally unable to consent. And if they say no.. It means no. Whether they are male or female, 130lbs or 200lbs. Why is that so hard to understand?

Anonymous wrote:OP, I don't know what to tell you. If this man feels that he was assaulted, it's probably a good idea to treat him with respect rather than dismissing him as "a grown man with supposedly full cognitive abilities and functioning."

If his account is fabricated, that is still indicative of a pretty troubled individual who deserves compassion and mental health assistance. Since he is not your good friend, I would strongly advise that you just stop thinking about this and let it go. If he was your close friend, I would advise whatever compassion and support you would offer to a female friend who confided that she was sexually assaulted by her boyfriend and manipulated into staying in an abusive relationship.

This. I don't understand what your investment is in this other than wanting to trash someone you don't really know? This is the best response here. You have nothing to gain or lose here, just let it go. The man is clearly suffering for some reason. Get a grip on yourself.

Anonymous wrote:I don't know...male or female, if the story is essentially that they had consensual sex but were really tired (and then voluntarily went to the person's house for a second round of consensual-but-tired sex) and then dated the person for 8 months because of a guilt trip? Nope.

As a woman, I want to feel empathy for this man.

My truth is that it takes enough of my mental and physical energy to navigate the waters of interacting with men to protect my own safety from being sexually assaulted, whether that is going out of my way to avoid cat-called while walking down the street, groped on the metro, hit-on at work, making sure I am sober to give consent to sex or knowing when to trust a man I date to not rape me, to then also add to MY responsibility as a 5'3" 125 pound woman, that I could one day be accused of raping a 200 pound, 6 foot tall man who has a months- long relationship with me, later to claim it was all forced and against his will. Exhausting.

I'm on board with how this could happen, sure. I guess it's the definition of rape. If someone changes their mind, isn't conscious or isn't actively saying "YES"then it's rape. period. And that applies to a man or a woman.

So - how do we feel about a woman who is saying "no,no, no" but actively undressing, groping a man, and doing all of the work to make intercourse happen. Is it still rape because of the "no" in the scenario?

Anonymous wrote:I don't know...male or female, if the story is essentially that they had consensual sex but were really tired (and then voluntarily went to the person's house for a second round of consensual-but-tired sex) and then dated the person for 8 months because of a guilt trip? Nope.

So you don't think it was legitimate rape, then?

I don't know...male or female, if the story is essentially that they had consensual sex but were really tired (and then voluntarily went to the person's house for a second round of consensual-but-tired sex) and then dated the person for 8 months because of a guilt trip? Nope.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. If he hadn't also claimed that she forced him into a months long relationship as girlfriend and boyfriend, because she raped him one night, then I would have more empathy for him. He is a grown man with supposedly full cognitive abilities and functioning. Did he have Stockholm Syndrome, where he was held prisoner in his own mind? Or did he regret the relationship and instead of accepting his own adult choices and responsibility, he blames her?

OP, turn the tables, just for a moment in your head and imagine this was a women. Do you blame your female friends for being in a suite relationships? If a female friend of yours was in an emotionally (or physically) abusive relationship and at then end said her ex raped her, would you be more sympathetic?

If you wouldn't be, then that's okay. But it doesn't negate their experience any less.

Men are validly victims of do rustic abiuse, assault, and rape. Due to societal "norms", there isn't a lot of support for them. They receive responses from friends and family much like what you're doing. It doubles their pain, suffering, and impairs their ability to heal and move on. The fact that this man is bringing this up much after the relationship is closed demonstrates it could well be true.

OP, I don't know what to tell you. If this man feels that he was assaulted, it's probably a good idea to treat him with respect rather than dismissing him as "a grown man with supposedly full cognitive abilities and functioning."

If his account is fabricated, that is still indicative of a pretty troubled individual who deserves compassion and mental health assistance. Since he is not your good friend, I would strongly advise that you just stop thinking about this and let it go. If he was your close friend, I would advise whatever compassion and support you would offer to a female friend who confided that she was sexually assaulted by her boyfriend and manipulated into staying in an abusive relationship.

OP here. If he hadn't also claimed that she forced him into a months long relationship as girlfriend and boyfriend, because she raped him one night, then I would have more empathy for him. He is a grown man with supposedly full cognitive abilities and functioning. Did he have Stockholm Syndrome, where he was held prisoner in his own mind? Or did he regret the relationship and instead of accepting his own adult choices and responsibility, he blames her?