Anonymous
03/08/2015 12:08
Subject: Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
I cannot for the life of me imagine a therapist who would not think a teen who is depressed and expressing the desire to commit suicide needs medication. Just stunned.
Aside from the fact that his life is at risk -- and I understand this whole idea that you ask if they have a plan to determine if its "real" but teens who commit suicide are far more impulsive than adults. The whole "he doesn't have a plan" thing is a false sense of security. But there is something else. Depression is both caused by and alters brain chemistry. Medication treats it because it is a medical disorder. And untreated depression alters brain chemistry so that it becomes more difficult to treat, especially in a teen whose brain is still developing. The decisions you are making now will alter his life. You need to do everything you possibly can to get on top of this situation.
I'm a mother of a child who became dangerously depressed and the difference with meds was so striking that I can't imagine allowing that kind of suffering to continue when there is treatment available. trust me, we tried therapy. It did absolutely nothing until we treated the medical disorder.
OP, I think you think your MD is enough here but you really truly need to take your DS to a psychiatrist, not a simple therapist. You won't, of course. you seem dug in. This "one day" when he may need meds has already come.
Aside from the fact that his life is at risk -- and I understand this whole idea that you ask if they have a plan to determine if its "real" but teens who commit suicide are far more impulsive than adults. The whole "he doesn't have a plan" thing is a false sense of security. But there is something else. Depression is both caused by and alters brain chemistry. Medication treats it because it is a medical disorder. And untreated depression alters brain chemistry so that it becomes more difficult to treat, especially in a teen whose brain is still developing. The decisions you are making now will alter his life. You need to do everything you possibly can to get on top of this situation.
I'm a mother of a child who became dangerously depressed and the difference with meds was so striking that I can't imagine allowing that kind of suffering to continue when there is treatment available. trust me, we tried therapy. It did absolutely nothing until we treated the medical disorder.
OP, I think you think your MD is enough here but you really truly need to take your DS to a psychiatrist, not a simple therapist. You won't, of course. you seem dug in. This "one day" when he may need meds has already come.
Anonymous
03/08/2015 11:53
Subject: Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
His vitamin D is low? Good God....
You're adorable.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/reading-between-the-headlines/201307/vitamin-d-deficiency-and-depression
What does this have to do with psychiatry? Glad you asked. Recent studies by Springer (link is external), and research results reported in the New England Journal of Medicine (link is external) and by the Vitamin D Council (link is external), are indicating a link to depression. Of note: Canadian researchers (link is external) reviewed 14 studies, consisting of 31,424 participants and found a strong correlation between depression and a lack of Vitamin D. The lower the Vitamin D level, the greater the chance of depression. But, the big question is still causality. Does one get depressed because of a deficiency of Vitamin D, or does depression lower the vitamin level?
"What we know now is that there are strong indications that maintaining adequate levels of vitamin D are also important for good mental health. A few minutes of sunlight exposure each day should be enough for most people to maintain an adequate vitamin D status."
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/286496.php
But feel free to keep popping your SSRI's and such without doing root cause analysis.
I know more about this subject than you will ever know. I understand low vitamin D *may* cause depression, this article is talking about mild depression. Not suicidal ideation. The difference between those two is the difference between life and death, please stop trying to talk the OP out of doing what is right for her son.
Anonymous
03/08/2015 11:45
Subject: Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
Anonymous wrote:
His vitamin D is low? Good God....
You're adorable.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/reading-between-the-headlines/201307/vitamin-d-deficiency-and-depression
What does this have to do with psychiatry? Glad you asked. Recent studies by Springer (link is external), and research results reported in the New England Journal of Medicine (link is external) and by the Vitamin D Council (link is external), are indicating a link to depression. Of note: Canadian researchers (link is external) reviewed 14 studies, consisting of 31,424 participants and found a strong correlation between depression and a lack of Vitamin D. The lower the Vitamin D level, the greater the chance of depression. But, the big question is still causality. Does one get depressed because of a deficiency of Vitamin D, or does depression lower the vitamin level?
"What we know now is that there are strong indications that maintaining adequate levels of vitamin D are also important for good mental health. A few minutes of sunlight exposure each day should be enough for most people to maintain an adequate vitamin D status."
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/286496.php
But feel free to keep popping your SSRI's and such without doing root cause analysis.
Anonymous
03/08/2015 11:41
Subject: Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
0P first of all I'm very sorry that you're going through such a difficult situation .
I only have a few things to say he might tell you that coming out has nothing to do with this but I sure you it is probably the bulk of it it is a very weighty decision- and I can't even imagine how difficult that was for him but I commend him as you should.
Secondly he just might be in an environment that is not friendly towards that and for that reason feels very alone.
Please do all in your power up which thankfully there's a lot you can do before he's 18 after 18 all gloves are off
There is help and it is amazing what good cognitive therapy and medication can do best of luck to you
I only have a few things to say he might tell you that coming out has nothing to do with this but I sure you it is probably the bulk of it it is a very weighty decision- and I can't even imagine how difficult that was for him but I commend him as you should.
Secondly he just might be in an environment that is not friendly towards that and for that reason feels very alone.
Please do all in your power up which thankfully there's a lot you can do before he's 18 after 18 all gloves are off
There is help and it is amazing what good cognitive therapy and medication can do best of luck to you
Anonymous
03/08/2015 11:41
Subject: Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP you are going down a very dangerous path and I fear for your child. You've bought into this ridiculous ideology that drugs are a quick fix and that antidepressants are more harmful than helpful. It is this kind of dangerous thinking that has led to a dramatic increase in teen suicides since the black box warning went on anti-depressants. Depression kills.And you have been deluded by the fact that you have medical training in one area into thinking you know about this other area.
Going to the gym does not cure suicidal ideations. Having friends over does not cure suicidal ideations. Your DC is misinformed about medications and you are reenforcing his misinformation. Your DS is actively suicidal and you have not educated yourself in terms of what that means with respect to brain chemistry or the dynamics that lead such kids to take their own lives. You are going by your gut and your gut is wrong. Your DS' life is in danger and you need every tool in the arsenal.
Far FAR more teens die by suicide who are not on medication than who are and that problem is getting worse because of uninformed parents like you.
With all due respect, I think I know my own child a bit more than you do. Again, with all due respect, as a physician in the ER I am schooled in recognizing SI and know the difference between one with a plan and no plan. I also know that medications are necessary and helpful in many circumstances. I do not believe there are warranted here YET, read that one little word you missed in my PP's, Y-E-T. If his therapist decides he needs it, he will be on it. We both agree he's not there. It is Winter, his vitamin D was low, we are supplementing that right now. Thank you for your thoughts, but easy there with many assumptions.
His vitamin D is low? Good God....
Anonymous
03/08/2015 11:40
Subject: Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
Anonymous wrote:OP you are going down a very dangerous path and I fear for your child. You've bought into this ridiculous ideology that drugs are a quick fix and that antidepressants are more harmful than helpful. It is this kind of dangerous thinking that has led to a dramatic increase in teen suicides since the black box warning went on anti-depressants. Depression kills.And you have been deluded by the fact that you have medical training in one area into thinking you know about this other area.
Going to the gym does not cure suicidal ideations. Having friends over does not cure suicidal ideations. Your DC is misinformed about medications and you are reenforcing his misinformation. Your DS is actively suicidal and you have not educated yourself in terms of what that means with respect to brain chemistry or the dynamics that lead such kids to take their own lives. You are going by your gut and your gut is wrong. Your DS' life is in danger and you need every tool in the arsenal.
Far FAR more teens die by suicide who are not on medication than who are and that problem is getting worse because of uninformed parents like you.
Agree 100%.
OP, your actions toward your son are dangerous. Do yourself a favor and contact other parents who have had a child commit suicide, they will tell you that the biggest indicator of code red alarms for is saying you plan to commit suicide. I fear for his safety. Perhaps you don't know that the very people responding to you are professionals in this area, this is not an opinion, this is real. You are foolish to think that his socializing with other kids, or going to a gym, is any indication that he isn't suicidal or that you or your husband can keep him safe.
Anonymous
03/08/2015 11:31
Subject: Re:Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
I am the anti-drug poster from before and am glad to hear OP is trying something else first. It's sad that most doctors these days will prescribe anti depressants and other psycho pharmaceuticals as if they were cough drops. Especially developing brains are sensitive already and adding drugs to the mix is not a good idea unless there are no other options. Exercise, social contact, a healthy diet and making sure vitamins are in order are proven measures to treat depression. OP is doing the right thing as long as a professional therapist is also part of the picture...and it is! So, best of luck to you and your son (and the entire family) OP, you ARE doing the right thing. Don't let anybody take away that gut feeling and trust in your own judgement...you have the help you need right now.
Anonymous
03/08/2015 11:24
Subject: Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
Anonymous wrote:OP you are going down a very dangerous path and I fear for your child. You've bought into this ridiculous ideology that drugs are a quick fix and that antidepressants are more harmful than helpful. It is this kind of dangerous thinking that has led to a dramatic increase in teen suicides since the black box warning went on anti-depressants. Depression kills.And you have been deluded by the fact that you have medical training in one area into thinking you know about this other area.
Going to the gym does not cure suicidal ideations. Having friends over does not cure suicidal ideations. Your DC is misinformed about medications and you are reenforcing his misinformation. Your DS is actively suicidal and you have not educated yourself in terms of what that means with respect to brain chemistry or the dynamics that lead such kids to take their own lives. You are going by your gut and your gut is wrong. Your DS' life is in danger and you need every tool in the arsenal.
Far FAR more teens die by suicide who are not on medication than who are and that problem is getting worse because of uninformed parents like you.
With all due respect, I think I know my own child a bit more than you do. Again, with all due respect, as a physician in the ER I am schooled in recognizing SI and know the difference between one with a plan and no plan. I also know that medications are necessary and helpful in many circumstances. I do not believe there are warranted here YET, read that one little word you missed in my PP's, Y-E-T. If his therapist decides he needs it, he will be on it. We both agree he's not there. It is Winter, his vitamin D was low, we are supplementing that right now. Thank you for your thoughts, but easy there with many assumptions.
Anonymous
03/08/2015 10:17
Subject: Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
OP you are going down a very dangerous path and I fear for your child. You've bought into this ridiculous ideology that drugs are a quick fix and that antidepressants are more harmful than helpful. It is this kind of dangerous thinking that has led to a dramatic increase in teen suicides since the black box warning went on anti-depressants. Depression kills.And you have been deluded by the fact that you have medical training in one area into thinking you know about this other area.
Going to the gym does not cure suicidal ideations. Having friends over does not cure suicidal ideations. Your DC is misinformed about medications and you are reenforcing his misinformation. Your DS is actively suicidal and you have not educated yourself in terms of what that means with respect to brain chemistry or the dynamics that lead such kids to take their own lives. You are going by your gut and your gut is wrong. Your DS' life is in danger and you need every tool in the arsenal.
Far FAR more teens die by suicide who are not on medication than who are and that problem is getting worse because of uninformed parents like you.
Going to the gym does not cure suicidal ideations. Having friends over does not cure suicidal ideations. Your DC is misinformed about medications and you are reenforcing his misinformation. Your DS is actively suicidal and you have not educated yourself in terms of what that means with respect to brain chemistry or the dynamics that lead such kids to take their own lives. You are going by your gut and your gut is wrong. Your DS' life is in danger and you need every tool in the arsenal.
Far FAR more teens die by suicide who are not on medication than who are and that problem is getting worse because of uninformed parents like you.
Anonymous
03/08/2015 10:03
Subject: Re:Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
Anonymous wrote:
You have NO idea what my agenda is. It might help to ask instead of blindly judging. The teenager in question is talking to his Mom. He does not want to be admitted. He has opened up. The reasons for his depression are known. All of this means that therapy is the first thing to try. Not drugging him. Watching him closely, staying in contact and getting professional help is what he needs - not immediate treatment with pharmaceutical drugs. It's nothing but sad how quickly people with no proper education are to tell OP that what her son needs is medication. Or a psych ward. You judge ME for telling her not to turn to drugs first - yet you have no more knowledge than me and tell her to trust pharmaceutical drugs...okay...
Pharmaceutical drugs are not proven to cure any mental diseases. None of them have ever cured a patient. Some of them sometimes help with some of the symptoms - but at the same time they are proven to do damage. Suicidal thoughts and tendencies as well as actual suicide are proven to be caused by anti depressants for example. That's not something I am making up. Drugs are chemistry messing with people's brains. That is not ever a good thing. I am glad OP seems to have some knowledge of how psychopharmacy really works. It sounds like that's exactly why she is looking for OTHER advice.
So OP. Talking to your son is the best thing you can do right now. Take him seriously, both with him saying he wants to end his life AS WELL as his opinions about therapy, drugs, psych wards etc. Therapy against somebody's will never works. So he needs to be on board with whatever you are going to do. Maybe talking to you is enough. Maybe he needs to find the right therapist. Maybe a support group with kids his age might be the right thing for him. Maybe he needs distraction from the things that depress him. Sports, hobbies etc. I think the most important thing for you personally might be to talk to a therapist yourself and get proper advice there because this board is anonymous strangers...you don't know what anyone on here really knows or doesn't know. Best to be on the safe side and get professional help.
Thank you PP. Your advice is sound. Being a medical professional I know what impact pharmaceuticals have and I am not interested in heading down that path RIGHT NOW. Young minds are complicated as is, I'm not going to mess with them further adding chemicals in the mix that he may be dependent on the rest of his life unless he needs it. He's been going to the gym with me or his dad, talking to a therapist (although he says it's "stupid"), having his friends over (they are still here since Friday and holy crap do they eat A TON!), and spending more time with the family. I know my child and he came to me because he wanted help, and I am listening and we are helping him on our terms, my son and mine. He is adamant against drugs, he's even read they increase suicidal thoughts in teenagers. He does not want to do that right now. I appreciate all the advice but more people should heed the "drugs are not always the answer" advice. Some things have no quick fix, I think this is one of those things.
Anonymous
03/08/2015 08:34
Subject: Re:Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Stay away from drugs. That's a very strong and very personal piece of advise. Psycho-pharmaceutical drugs do more harm than good. If you're on the fence about this I recommend watching "Psychiatry - An industry of death". Therapy is good. Loads of good therapists out there. Lots of places to get help. But stay away from the drugs. And stay away from hospitalization during which you and/or your son do not have control over whether he has to take drugs or not and generally over what will happen to him there.
Ask him under which circumstances he might accept help, ask him what he can think of that he might need right now. I agree to not leave him alone - but do talk to him about it. Respect him deeply right now. Explain to him what you are doing and why. Do not ever go over his head if you can at all avoid it. The "He will hate you for a short while and then everything will be peachy" is a blanket statement that can end very badly.
This is the worst advice I have seen on DCUM, next to not vaxing your kids. As someone who was suicidal a while ago, drugs are what got me out of it. I still take Zoloft today. And it is generic....
Sure, in an absolute emergency, or when long time therapy doesn't help drugs can be a short-term stabilizing method that works. But for a teenager with very obvious reasons for the way he feels and no previous history of having tried therapy but nothing helped so now we try medication...no, drugs are not the way to go.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. This is the kind of advice that kills teens, plain and simple.
I agree, dangerous advice from someone with an anti drug agenda.
You have NO idea what my agenda is. It might help to ask instead of blindly judging. The teenager in question is talking to his Mom. He does not want to be admitted. He has opened up. The reasons for his depression are known. All of this means that therapy is the first thing to try. Not drugging him. Watching him closely, staying in contact and getting professional help is what he needs - not immediate treatment with pharmaceutical drugs. It's nothing but sad how quickly people with no proper education are to tell OP that what her son needs is medication. Or a psych ward. You judge ME for telling her not to turn to drugs first - yet you have no more knowledge than me and tell her to trust pharmaceutical drugs...okay...
Pharmaceutical drugs are not proven to cure any mental diseases. None of them have ever cured a patient. Some of them sometimes help with some of the symptoms - but at the same time they are proven to do damage. Suicidal thoughts and tendencies as well as actual suicide are proven to be caused by anti depressants for example. That's not something I am making up. Drugs are chemistry messing with people's brains. That is not ever a good thing. I am glad OP seems to have some knowledge of how psychopharmacy really works. It sounds like that's exactly why she is looking for OTHER advice.
So OP. Talking to your son is the best thing you can do right now. Take him seriously, both with him saying he wants to end his life AS WELL as his opinions about therapy, drugs, psych wards etc. Therapy against somebody's will never works. So he needs to be on board with whatever you are going to do. Maybe talking to you is enough. Maybe he needs to find the right therapist. Maybe a support group with kids his age might be the right thing for him. Maybe he needs distraction from the things that depress him. Sports, hobbies etc. I think the most important thing for you personally might be to talk to a therapist yourself and get proper advice there because this board is anonymous strangers...you don't know what anyone on here really knows or doesn't know. Best to be on the safe side and get professional help.
Anonymous
03/07/2015 09:58
Subject: Re:Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Stay away from drugs. That's a very strong and very personal piece of advise. Psycho-pharmaceutical drugs do more harm than good. If you're on the fence about this I recommend watching "Psychiatry - An industry of death". Therapy is good. Loads of good therapists out there. Lots of places to get help. But stay away from the drugs. And stay away from hospitalization during which you and/or your son do not have control over whether he has to take drugs or not and generally over what will happen to him there.
Ask him under which circumstances he might accept help, ask him what he can think of that he might need right now. I agree to not leave him alone - but do talk to him about it. Respect him deeply right now. Explain to him what you are doing and why. Do not ever go over his head if you can at all avoid it. The "He will hate you for a short while and then everything will be peachy" is a blanket statement that can end very badly.
This is the worst advice I have seen on DCUM, next to not vaxing your kids. As someone who was suicidal a while ago, drugs are what got me out of it. I still take Zoloft today. And it is generic....
Sure, in an absolute emergency, or when long time therapy doesn't help drugs can be a short-term stabilizing method that works. But for a teenager with very obvious reasons for the way he feels and no previous history of having tried therapy but nothing helped so now we try medication...no, drugs are not the way to go.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. This is the kind of advice that kills teens, plain and simple.
I agree, dangerous advice from someone with an anti drug agenda.
Anonymous
03/06/2015 13:04
Subject: Re:Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Stay away from drugs. That's a very strong and very personal piece of advise. Psycho-pharmaceutical drugs do more harm than good. If you're on the fence about this I recommend watching "Psychiatry - An industry of death". Therapy is good. Loads of good therapists out there. Lots of places to get help. But stay away from the drugs. And stay away from hospitalization during which you and/or your son do not have control over whether he has to take drugs or not and generally over what will happen to him there.
Ask him under which circumstances he might accept help, ask him what he can think of that he might need right now. I agree to not leave him alone - but do talk to him about it. Respect him deeply right now. Explain to him what you are doing and why. Do not ever go over his head if you can at all avoid it. The "He will hate you for a short while and then everything will be peachy" is a blanket statement that can end very badly.
This is the worst advice I have seen on DCUM, next to not vaxing your kids. As someone who was suicidal a while ago, drugs are what got me out of it. I still take Zoloft today. And it is generic....
Sure, in an absolute emergency, or when long time therapy doesn't help drugs can be a short-term stabilizing method that works. But for a teenager with very obvious reasons for the way he feels and no previous history of having tried therapy but nothing helped so now we try medication...no, drugs are not the way to go.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. This is the kind of advice that kills teens, plain and simple.
Anonymous
03/06/2015 12:55
Subject: Re:Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Stay away from drugs. That's a very strong and very personal piece of advise. Psycho-pharmaceutical drugs do more harm than good. If you're on the fence about this I recommend watching "Psychiatry - An industry of death". Therapy is good. Loads of good therapists out there. Lots of places to get help. But stay away from the drugs. And stay away from hospitalization during which you and/or your son do not have control over whether he has to take drugs or not and generally over what will happen to him there.
Ask him under which circumstances he might accept help, ask him what he can think of that he might need right now. I agree to not leave him alone - but do talk to him about it. Respect him deeply right now. Explain to him what you are doing and why. Do not ever go over his head if you can at all avoid it. The "He will hate you for a short while and then everything will be peachy" is a blanket statement that can end very badly.
This is the worst advice I have seen on DCUM, next to not vaxing your kids. As someone who was suicidal a while ago, drugs are what got me out of it. I still take Zoloft today. And it is generic....
Sure, in an absolute emergency, or when long time therapy doesn't help drugs can be a short-term stabilizing method that works. But for a teenager with very obvious reasons for the way he feels and no previous history of having tried therapy but nothing helped so now we try medication...no, drugs are not the way to go.
Anonymous
03/06/2015 08:55
Subject: Re:Teenage son just told me he is suicidal and depressed......
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I work at a psych hospital and see people like this everyday. If you can take him to a psychiatrist today do it. If you can't then take him to the ER. Please take this seriously. He says in 2 years but since he has actual plans to kill himself you need to take it seriously and it's an emergency!!!
Pump the brakes a bit. I've worked inpatient psych as well and while this kid is clearly asking for help, its not necessarily an "emergency!!!". S/I with a vague plan 2 years out and no imminent threat to self or others- that's not inpatient criteria. Especially with no failed outpatient.
OP- thank him for sharing something so personal and painful. Let him know that you love him, you will never judge him, you want him to always tell you things like this, and ask him to agree to tell you if he ever feels imminently suicidal. In short, have him contract for his own safety. Tell him you think he should see a therapist and ask if he will agree to see someone. Have him be an active participant in his therapy, even now. If he won't agree to see a therapist, talk and LISTEN, find out his reservations, see if you can help him overcome them. Call your insurance company or his primary care and ask for a referral to a therapist. Get him to an appointment as soon as possible.
If he cannot contract for his own safety or he shows signs of imminently harming himself, take him to an ER or call the police.
This is good advice. He needs you. I know a teenager committed to a psych institution and it is not a fun place to be - it also can really interfere with his plans for college. Of course, if you think there is not other option, do it. But it is not something to do lightly. I was also suicidal but never did anything. the important thing is you act as you are doing...taking action with therapy, time, attention, etc...
This is bullshit. My child is going to college and their time spent at a psych institution is not part of any applications or any part of the process. They were accepted to all colleges they applied to. I'm not saying everyone needs a psych instition, but people absolutely shouldn't be dissuaded from this option thinking it will mess up college. You know what messes up college? Being dead at 17.
I'm the "pump the brakes" PP- Its not bullshit (although I disagree with the college concern). An inpatient stay is going to be 3-7 days tops. If he isn't an imminent danger to himself or others, he may not even be admitted. Thoughts of suicide without a specific plan is NOT inpatient criteria so their insurance likely won't cover the $1,000 per day cost. Now- if there are different facts or signs that he's going to hurt himself NOW then the story is different.
This kid needs to see a therapist ASAP. He needs to contract for safety. But an inpatient stay will do nothing except start him on meds and keep him in a safe, locked environment for a few days. That's it. He may not need meds and he isn't an immediate danger to himself. Hell, the meds will take up to a month to kick in, depending on what is prescribed.
Make sure he's safe and get him to a therapist.