Anonymous
Post 02/26/2015 11:23     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:wow, OP. Her son is not a normal functioning adult, he has medical issues that are complicated. What do you expect her to do? Just ship him off to an institution?


Yes that they have been talking about doing. The sooner he does the more of a chance he has at overcoming this and starting to live a life of semi normalcy. They are not helping anyone by him being put up in his room. At almost 24 he has no skills, no education, no job,etc....it is a fact that the vast majority of young adults who go into intensive residential therapy come out markedly improved. She knows this but as her friend I feel like I should gently encourage her to really start thinking about this as not only an option but something she needs to do. First and foremost for him and then secondly for their family.


I'm on your side, OP. I have a friend who will be 40 this year who is still being enabled by his parents... he's also still living with them, can't hold a job, etc. I am sure it is so hard to consider sending a child away for treatment but I can tell you for sure it's so hard watching a 40 year old man repeat the same pattern because he knows he can crash at his parents' house anytime he needs to, no matter what he's done, under any circumstances. This is a person with a criminal record, in fact he didn't call me on birthday in 2014 because he was in jail. What did his parents do when he got out? Bought him another car, part of his new charges was crashing up the last one but "he needs it" if he's ever going to get a job though he has never held a job in his life short of "working" with his dad, when he shows up.

My friend had 3 younger brothers who have all managed to be successful, I believe their parents were just lucky that the other boys chose a completely opposite path and didn't follow their brother down his.

Uhh..big difference between crazy and being lazy.
DUH!


My friend has drug and mental health issues, which is why I posted here, because it's relevant. DUH!


Different poster here but you said that his siblings "chose an opposite path", as if a person with mental illness has any choice in the matter. His brothers didn't suffer with the same illness, right? So gimme a break!
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2015 11:16     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:wow, OP. Her son is not a normal functioning adult, he has medical issues that are complicated. What do you expect her to do? Just ship him off to an institution?


Yes that they have been talking about doing. The sooner he does the more of a chance he has at overcoming this and starting to live a life of semi normalcy. They are not helping anyone by him being put up in his room. At almost 24 he has no skills, no education, no job,etc....it is a fact that the vast majority of young adults who go into intensive residential therapy come out markedly improved. She knows this but as her friend I feel like I should gently encourage her to really start thinking about this as not only an option but something she needs to do. First and foremost for him and then secondly for their family.


I'm on your side, OP. I have a friend who will be 40 this year who is still being enabled by his parents... he's also still living with them, can't hold a job, etc. I am sure it is so hard to consider sending a child away for treatment but I can tell you for sure it's so hard watching a 40 year old man repeat the same pattern because he knows he can crash at his parents' house anytime he needs to, no matter what he's done, under any circumstances. This is a person with a criminal record, in fact he didn't call me on birthday in 2014 because he was in jail. What did his parents do when he got out? Bought him another car, part of his new charges was crashing up the last one but "he needs it" if he's ever going to get a job though he has never held a job in his life short of "working" with his dad, when he shows up.

My friend had 3 younger brothers who have all managed to be successful, I believe their parents were just lucky that the other boys chose a completely opposite path and didn't follow their brother down his.

Uhh..big difference between crazy and being lazy.
DUH!


My friend has drug and mental health issues, which is why I posted here, because it's relevant. DUH!
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2015 11:12     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I have watched families go through what you described, except people were brutally honest with them about their son's behavior.

The son will end up in jail or dead. Those are their two endings for their son.

Death or jail. Choose.

Residential treatment is the only choice for them before death or jail.

Tell them bluntly the truth. I see the mothers of these boys who are now dead, and their lives and the lives of their other children are never the same. The younger kids turned out fine. But for some reason, the oldest son was troubled. Maybe he was spoiled or mentally ill. He is dead now.


OMG what a grim post. I think to say that anyone who is suffering from mental illness will end up dying or in jail is extremely ignorant, hateful and very irresponsible.


Young men such as the OP describes will end up either dead or in jail, without residential treatment.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2015 11:10     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
Anonymous wrote:I have watched families go through what you described, except people were brutally honest with them about their son's behavior.

The son will end up in jail or dead. Those are their two endings for their son.

Death or jail. Choose.

Residential treatment is the only choice for them before death or jail.

Tell them bluntly the truth. I see the mothers of these boys who are now dead, and their lives and the lives of their other children are never the same. The younger kids turned out fine. But for some reason, the oldest son was troubled. Maybe he was spoiled or mentally ill. He is dead now.


OMG what a grim post. I think to say that anyone who is suffering from mental illness will end up dying or in jail is extremely ignorant, hateful and very irresponsible.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2015 10:44     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
I have watched families go through what you described, except people were brutally honest with them about their son's behavior.

The son will end up in jail or dead. Those are their two endings for their son.

Death or jail. Choose.

Residential treatment is the only choice for them before death or jail.

Tell them bluntly the truth. I see the mothers of these boys who are now dead, and their lives and the lives of their other children are never the same. The younger kids turned out fine. But for some reason, the oldest son was troubled. Maybe he was spoiled or mentally ill. He is dead now.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2015 08:48     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
Anonymous wrote:OP, you are a judgmental ass.

My sister was hugely helped by ECT (shock) therapy.

It is extremely difficult to get inpatient therapy. For insurance to pay, you have to be deemed an immediate danger to yourself or others. Moreover, there is no effective inpatient therapy for schizophrenia. They can mix up his meds, but you stated that he has been on all the meds.

Try re-reading your post with the word "cancer" instead of "mental illness". That's how much of an ass you are.


Wow a little harsh. I don't agree with everything about OP's post but do sense she genuinely wants to help and is confused on how to go about it. I am not expert but will just say that sounds like she needs a good friend. I love that you are arranging meals (one less thing to worry about) and taking care of the younger son (priceless to him I am sure). They are fighting a battle every single day, of which there is no escaping. I cannot imagine living it every and night.

It is so crazy when you think that prisoners deemed mentally ill ON OUR TAX DOLLARS get treatment and residential/rehabilitative herapy but a "normal honest citizen" does that get that privilege. Seem backwards? Yes I agree.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2015 08:43     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
Anonymous wrote:OP, you are a judgmental ass.

My sister was hugely helped by ECT (shock) therapy.

It is extremely difficult to get inpatient therapy. For insurance to pay, you have to be deemed an immediate danger to yourself or others. Moreover, there is no effective inpatient therapy for schizophrenia. They can mix up his meds, but you stated that he has been on all the meds.

Try re-reading your post with the word "cancer" instead of "mental illness". That's how much of an ass you are.


Please shut up and go away. No need for name calling. I cannot stand ignorant rants like yours. The OP came here asking for advice. There is a respectful way to give it. If you don't agree then state so in a civilized way PLEASE. How old are you?

She said he MAY have schizophrenia. None of us know the whole story here. She sees things from her perspective and I am from the mindset that true friends speak openly to one another. I would not badger her to death but put it out there asking if there is the option to send him to a program (if they can afford it of course) but am assuming they can since you mention they have been looking into it. Hopefully the shock therapy might work. My husbands boss's son tried it and it did not but eventually they found meds that did.

Best of luck and OP you sound like a caring concerned friend, ignore the negativity here there are a lot of miserable people out there!
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2015 08:12     Subject: Re:How to approach a friend in total denial
OP Sounds a bit beside herself with the situation. But it is a terrible one. "Sending someone mentally ill off" is a very expensive option that does not always work. Not everyone responds to treatment and medication the way you would hope. You are talking about $1000/day. With absolutely no guarantee. The son is not going to "learn a skill" "get an education" and so on. It is not like being developmentally delayed where there is a successful program to find a place in society. mental illness can bite down hard and intractably. Not too many families have that kind of extra money for months on end. It is a very bad situation.
signed, BTDT
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2015 07:03     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
Not all people can live normal lives. And yes he might end up living in his parents house forever never having a job. Where I'm from this is actually somewhere normal, I know crazy huh
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2015 06:44     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is it hard to get an adult into a supportive group home or independent living program if they have schizophrenia?


Yes, it's incredibly hard.


But what happens when his parents pass away? What becomes if people in this situation? So very sad.


Usually either siblings (or other family) step in to help care for the person, or they end up homeless.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2015 06:38     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is it hard to get an adult into a supportive group home or independent living program if they have schizophrenia?


Yes, it's incredibly hard.


But what happens when his parents pass away? What becomes if people in this situation? So very sad.
Anonymous
Post 02/26/2015 00:28     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
Anonymous wrote:OP, you are a judgmental ass.

My sister was hugely helped by ECT (shock) therapy.

It is extremely difficult to get inpatient therapy. For insurance to pay, you have to be deemed an immediate danger to yourself or others. Moreover, there is no effective inpatient therapy for schizophrenia. They can mix up his meds, but you stated that he has been on all the meds.

Try re-reading your post with the word "cancer" instead of "mental illness". That's how much of an ass you are.


Listen, if we want to help de-stigmatize mental illness and educate people about it, calling well-meaning people who want to help names is not the way to go about it. OP may be off-base in some respects, but I think her concern is genuine. She came here for help to try and figure out how to best support her friend. Many people have offered solid advice based on their personal experience and provided constructive criticism to her. That is how we can help educate folks, not by reacting to misconceptions with anger.

And a side note - can we please stop referring to the mentally ill as "crazy?" That label perpetuates the stigma.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2015 23:50     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
Anonymous wrote:You cannot truly fathom what their life is like. Don't you think they've considered this option, and reconsidered it, again and again? It may be that he's never able to function without extensive support; schizophrenia is a brutal disease. Selfish is not a word that you should use to describe them, ever.


Exactly.

Anonymous
Post 02/25/2015 22:12     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
OP, I grew up with an older brother with severe mental illness. It was hell. He took up all of my parents' time and energy and I resented him for it. In short, I was the younger brother you mention. I had a lot of anger at my parents too.

That was a long time ago. I now understand his illness better and realize he is very sick and always will be. It's heartbreaking. And now that I am a mom, I can't even imagine the pain his illness has caused my parents. Have some empathy for the parents. They are going through hell.

For the younger brother - I can tell you that what I wanted most when I was in that situation is escape. I desperately wanted to be out of the house, away from the craziness at home. So it's great that you are letting him spend time at your home, and I encourage you to continue to do so. You're probably doing him a much greater service than you realize.
Anonymous
Post 02/25/2015 21:17     Subject: How to approach a friend in total denial
OP, you are a judgmental ass.

My sister was hugely helped by ECT (shock) therapy.

It is extremely difficult to get inpatient therapy. For insurance to pay, you have to be deemed an immediate danger to yourself or others. Moreover, there is no effective inpatient therapy for schizophrenia. They can mix up his meds, but you stated that he has been on all the meds.

Try re-reading your post with the word "cancer" instead of "mental illness". That's how much of an ass you are.