Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not anti testing. Tests are important the anger and frustration is at these tests and at Pearson and how they have changed the public school experience. Why can't kids have more recess, gym, play, creative lesson plans for teachers? Because these stupid tests dominate and the teachers and principals need the kids to do well so they are scared to take time out of the day for important age appropriate work. Instead they want to max out on every moment of the school day to "teach to the test" so scores go up. Because teachers and principals are evaluated on these scores. For raises, job security etc... It's a terrible system and our kids are getting screwed. So, testing is fine - but it needs to be meaningful teacher designed assessment

Then lobby against Pearson, or help promote or design a better test. I'm all for teacher creativity, but gluing crepe paper to paper plates shouldn't replace mastery of reading or addition. I personally think the school day is too long, and kids would focus better with more recess and PE.

Seriously. the choice isn't between gluing crepe paper and taking standardized tests. And parents shouldn't have to go into the test design business any more than they should be expected to go into the textbook writing business to assure a decent public school education for their children. They also shouldn't be encouraged to skip direct contact with their kids' schools by lobbying against Pearson. Parents can have a lot of clout on the local level -- if they use it

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One more time. People in the opt-out movement aren't "afraid of the test" for their own child. They are rightly concerned about the quality of THE PARCC test ( not all standardized testing) in terms of its validity. And also in terms of how high stakes tests that aren't well made will effect school culture, teacher latitude for creativity, early childhood education, narrowing of the curriculum and manufactured failure for children so tech companies can come in a "save the day".

For what its worth, it isn't just parents. It is school officials, assessment experts and experienced educators across the whole country who have similar concerns.

So you can take your whole "scaredy-cat-parent" schtick and shove off.

I'd happily advocate for well structured, appropriate tests. I've been following the anti-testers for a while though, and it seems there is no test which ever makes them happy. And the testing companies do not ever save the day, they offer a new and improved test, or books and prep materials. I've seen several posts about the anxiety the tests supposedly create in the poster"s child, and I'd suggest the parent look close to home for the source of that anxiety or at the specific teacher

So far as I can recall this is the first time that someone supporting NCLB testing has acknowledged that parents and home actually affect student learning. Interesting that it comes out only in blaming parents for the audacity of questioning the value of the tests.

I think it's perfectly clear that parents and home affect student learning, but they also affect student stress. I'd bet that the child whose parents don't even ask about the test has a different perception from the one whose parents ask repeatedly "Is your test tomorrow? Did you have a test today? How was the test? Did you understand the test? Did you finish the test?"

I believe testing is an essential tool to ensure quality of education, but I also acknowledge that some tests are duds (and I speak as a former teacher).
Would you drive a car which was never independently tested? Just rely on the manufacturers, because clearly they made the car themselves and are professionals?
Would you take medications from a lab which had never been tested and verified for content and potency by an outside agency?
Why is education such a 'hands off and let the teachers do their thing' business?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does DCPS have a standard form or procedure to use to opt out. I find the various information out there to be confusing and I don't want to be manipulated into having my kids take the test or being "duped" into it. I also don't want to incur the Principal's wrath for making this decision. Thoughts?

Don't know, but I doubt there's a standard form -- They wouldn't want anyone finding it on the website and getting the idea to opt out. though maybe this comment will give them the idea to devise such a form -- in which case I predict that it will be very long and complicated with the intent of discouraging parents from completing it and just caving and taking the test. It will also probably have no legal weight, so don't be intimidated, if it comes to that.

Also, keep in mind that some schools are known for discouraging known "poor performers" from showing up on testing days, so they won't bring the scores down, so obviously some kids are already opting out -- with the active help of the schools.

^^ and without a standardized form

Anonymous wrote:Does DCPS have a standard form or procedure to use to opt out. I find the various information out there to be confusing and I don't want to be manipulated into having my kids take the test or being "duped" into it. I also don't want to incur the Principal's wrath for making this decision. Thoughts?

Don't know, but I doubt there's a standard form -- They wouldn't want anyone finding it on the website and getting the idea to opt out. though maybe this comment will give them the idea to devise such a form -- in which case I predict that it will be very long and complicated with the intent of discouraging parents from completing it and just caving and taking the test. It will also probably have no legal weight, so don't be intimidated, if it comes to that.

Also, keep in mind that some schools are known for discouraging known "poor performers" from showing up on testing days, so they won't bring the scores down, so obviously some kids are already opting out -- with the active help of the schools.

Anonymous wrote:
1. By not centering learning around the tests -- which are to make administrators look as good as possible -- not to help students or teachers -- for them the tests have the opposite effect.

2. By not teaching to the test all year round -- just have some time set aside for the tests themselves -- those results would truly show how kids are doing

3. By realizing that "failing schools" is a misnomer implying that the the main, perhaps only, cause of poor learning is the school building itself -- this is really crazy, as I think everyone realizes (at some level) that it's first the kids in the school that make the difference -- and its the limitations of their parents that make the difference in the kids. Next come the teachers --and teachers are limited by these standardized tests, as they have been saying for years. Last is the "school" itself -- if it's in poor condition or has limited space that will have some effect, but we all know good students (maybe ourselves) can come out of such schools.

I'd like to see teachers being given credit for moving a child reading at 3rd grade level to 6th grade level in a year, even if the child is actually an 8th grader.
However, I also want to think that the concepts being taught to my 4th grader in Ms Olsen's class are the same as he'd learn in Mr Jones' 4th grade class down the hall or across town. FWIW, I'm also a proponent of repeating grades if the material isn't mastered, and more identification and remediation with learning-disabled kids or those who are just behind. This is one reason why I'm fine with tests twice a year. I'd want to know if my child had lost a year, or half a year of gains in school, if my child had made no progress or less progress tan his peers. And I'd like to have a way to identify ineffective teaching, or a child who cannot learn in the current setting.
If you look at the special needs forum, you'll see parents complaining that they CAN'T get their child tested or evaluated in a timely fashion in order to qualify for IEP's or 504s. And over here we have parents complaining about their kids being tested
Unlike private schools, public schools don't get to pick their students, and schools can't ensure that the students are liberated from the hobbling effects of poverty. That isn't their battle to fight.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One more time. People in the opt-out movement aren't "afraid of the test" for their own child. They are rightly concerned about the quality of THE PARCC test ( not all standardized testing) in terms of its validity. And also in terms of how high stakes tests that aren't well made will effect school culture, teacher latitude for creativity, early childhood education, narrowing of the curriculum and manufactured failure for children so tech companies can come in a "save the day".

For what its worth, it isn't just parents. It is school officials, assessment experts and experienced educators across the whole country who have similar concerns.

So you can take your whole "scaredy-cat-parent" schtick and shove off.

I'd happily advocate for well structured, appropriate tests. I've been following the anti-testers for a while though, and it seems there is no test which ever makes them happy. And the testing companies do not ever save the day, they offer a new and improved test, or books and prep materials. I've seen several posts about the anxiety the tests supposedly create in the poster"s child, and I'd suggest the parent look close to home for the source of that anxiety or at the specific teacher

So far as I can recall this is the first time that someone supporting NCLB testing has acknowledged that parents and home actually affect student learning. Interesting that it comes out only in blaming parents for the audacity of questioning the value of the tests.

When opting out be firm and resolute. The School will likely try to sway you. But you DO have the choice.

I'm surprised so many people are blinding accepting of this new test. I would assume you haven't even looking into the information of done any research on it.

Anonymous wrote:I have tried contacting multiple at OSSE regarding this very question and they have been perfectly useless. My next stop is DME. Also thinking of going to low cost private.

It's because they don't want you to know that there is no penalty for not taking the tests because they want you to take the tests because it helps them, not you or your kid.

They can't outright lie, so they are evasive.

Specifically: http://fairtest.org/k-12/high%20stakes

Helpful Information: http://fairtest.org

Does DCPS have a standard form or procedure to use to opt out. I find the various information out there to be confusing and I don't want to be manipulated into having my kids take the test or being "duped" into it. I also don't want to incur the Principal's wrath for making this decision. Thoughts?

Anonymous wrote:We have 3 kids in JKLM who score very high but we will be opting out this year. We encourage others to do the same.

Please could you give a step by step description of how you are doing this for the rest of us to learn. What is first, how to you identify testing days and what happens on those days? How do you address it with your children? What are their reactions?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
teachers give tests too - and they know your kid. There's no magic to standardized tests devised for NCLB --- they are all about keeping testing companies in business and perpetuating the whole NCLB mess. Is that what you want as a parent?

What I want as a parent is some uniformity, which comes from standardized outside tests. I want to think that if I move my 6th grader from Stokes to Hardy, he won't be behind. I want to know that if I get relocated to Boca Raton midyear, my 6th grader won't be lost in math or whatever, or repeating material. You may have seen on this forum complaints that Basis kids who went to walls had to repeat a class due to geometry not being covered in sequence. I don't want that type of mess.
When your child applies to college, that 4.6gpa counts for little if the SAT doesn't mirror those grades, and there are reasons that colleges look closely at standardized tests as well as those given by individual teachers

This. People who say "the teacher can give tests" don't seem to understand the word "standardized." Not saying that the tests are currently good, but the answer is not eliminating all standardized tests. The answer is having a reasonable number of better tests.

I understand standardized completely and know there's a difference between how the SAT's are used and the NCLB tests are used. SAT's are a national measure and are taken any a subset of students wanting to get into (most) institutes of higher learning. As for moving to Boca Raton -- they use different standardized tests than DCPS, so they won't help much there. You can find out about the Stokes/Hardy differences much better by visiting the school and talking to parents/teachers about kids like yours. In short, the kind of "mess" you want to avoid can't be fixed by DCPS standardized tests used for NCLB. Those tests are the kind that are "taught to" so pull the highest possible scores out of the kids to make the schools district look as good as possible -- they are not meant to help your kid learn and have nothing to do with their grades, which some kids know very well.

The first bolded point is exactly why I favor an external standardized test. Below benchmark? Time for intervention. I can't find out about the educational situation at Stokes vs Hardy simply by talking to parents. Firstly, I'm an outsider...how am I going to find out which impartial parents I could talk to? Buttonhole one outside the building at pick up time?Do teachers do sit downs with parents of students who aren't even enrolled in that school? Ask the main office for a list of parents who'd be willing to talk to me? I doubt that last would lead to any non-boosters. I like external tests, for may reasons. I just may not like the tests, or like the loss of recess etc. For decades there's been hand-wringing about failing schools. How else do you propose that we as a society identify those failing schools so they can be brought up to speed?

1. By not centering learning around the tests -- which are to make administrators look as good as possible -- not to help students or teachers -- for them the tests have the opposite effect.

2. By not teaching to the test all year round -- just have some time set aside for the tests themselves -- those results would truly show how kids are doing

3. By realizing that "failing schools" is a misnomer implying that the the main, perhaps only, cause of poor learning is the school building itself -- this is really crazy, as I think everyone realizes (at some level) that it's first the kids in the school that make the difference -- and its the limitations of their parents that make the difference in the kids. Next come the teachers --and teachers are limited by these standardized tests, as they have been saying for years. Last is the "school" itself -- if it's in poor condition or has limited space that will have some effect, but we all know good students (maybe ourselves) can come out of such schools.

We have 3 kids in JKLM who score very high but we will be opting out this year. We encourage others to do the same.