Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. US has been lagging prior to 2.0 and we were supplementing before that. My response was basically that if you are unhappy with MCPS math then you supplement at home.

I am in no way and shape saying that I am comparing the Math achievement of all students in China and India and Eastern Europe with American kids. I am comparing the performance of the middle class students of these countries to the US students. Considering how humongous their middle class population is, they will have a significant impact on the global market for white collar jobs.

Let's take the scores of only MCPS (the best school district) and we can see how very dismal the showing is. What is the failure rate on Algebra 2 exams?

No, if you're going to compare the performance of middle-class students in China and India and Eastern Europe to students in the US, then you'll have to compare it to middle-class students in the US (or middle-class students in MCPS) -- not all students.

Ummm...sure. Are we allowed to remove from the mix of US students those whose parents are immigrants from the countries we are comparing them to? How about removing the East Europeans and Asian lineage kids - who are supplementing here too?

That "lagging Asian countries" red flag has been waving for 30 years, meanwhile the US consistently has the most steady economy, has the highest advances in science and technology.

It's a drum beat scare tactic that is not true.

I've been in high tech development for 40 years and have also taught at engineering universities, you do get a wave like the outsourcing to India or even Japan, but it always comes back. I have been around many Asian students, and they do well because they cluster up, study constantly and are very exclusionary. Part of the problem was the language barrier, part of it was they just don't like Americans very much.

Guess what, they don't get the high paying jobs. They have no creativity, they are afraid of any original ideas and rarely become lead designers or architects.

First generation Asian-Americans assimilate very quickly and are just like their American counterparts.

The math in MCPS is ridiculous, we don't need some nebulous Asian standard, we set the standard and need to work on doing better than we did yesterday, not sliding back whole grade levels in instruction.

Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:

Which Asian countries outperform the US? Let me help you out. You don't have to leave the country. Go to your neighborhood school and ask your secondary school children who the high performers are?

My children's classmates are not Asian countries (or any other countries).

Sustained. Answer the question. Ask you children?

What question am I supposed to answer? Who are the high performers at the high school we are zoned for? The only way this would answer the questions of which countries in Asia are outperforming the US, and on which measures, is if your thinking were going like this:

-many high performers at the US high school we are zoned for have parents who come from India.
-therefore India is outperforming the US.
-I know that India is outperforming the US because many high performers at the US high school we are zoned for have parents who come from India.

Anonymous wrote:

They have tutoring within the MCPS schools? This is not the same as the Saturday schools, right?

Perhaps if the non-Asian kids in this country were tutored everyday after school and on weekends, the US would show a better ranking in the PISA tests, too. Perhaps if the US government had much better social welfare programs, and the families didn't have to worry about healthcare, heating bills, retirement, etc.. we'd perform better on the PISA tests.

I read an article about how in Finland, when a kid was labeled as "failing", the kid received all kinds of services - from child psychologists to social welfare advocates. They would provide a team of professionals to help the "failing" kid. Perhaps if we had such great services, we wouldn't have to have "no child left behind" type initiatives.

Yes, the have tutoring and classes on Saturday and Sunday at MCPS schools. At least in Potomac and Bethesda. These services are not run by MCPS.

Would they be considered "middle class"?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. US has been lagging prior to 2.0 and we were supplementing before that. My response was basically that if you are unhappy with MCPS math then you supplement at home.

I am in no way and shape saying that I am comparing the Math achievement of all students in China and India and Eastern Europe with American kids. I am comparing the performance of the middle class students of these countries to the US students. Considering how humongous their middle class population is, they will have a significant impact on the global market for white collar jobs.

Let's take the scores of only MCPS (the best school district) and we can see how very dismal the showing is. What is the failure rate on Algebra 2 exams?

No, if you're going to compare the performance of middle-class students in China and India and Eastern Europe to students in the US, then you'll have to compare it to middle-class students in the US (or middle-class students in MCPS) -- not all students.

MCPS would still lag behind. And this is inspite of the fact that what passes for middle class in these countries would qualify as the poorest of the population of Montgomery County.

If we compare the middle class students with the middle class students here. Hand's down these other nations would win. However, this being a free nation and all, this is entirely your choice what kind of advantages you want to give to your children.

I see the same faces - at the prep classes, at the magnet orientation meetings at school or college orientation meetings, at awards ceremonies, at state level scholastic meets, STEM competitions...faces of immigrants from these countries.

They have tutoring within the MCPS schools? This is not the same as the Saturday schools, right?

Perhaps if the non-Asian kids in this country were tutored everyday after school and on weekends, the US would show a better ranking in the PISA tests, too. Perhaps if the US government had much better social welfare programs, and the families didn't have to worry about healthcare, heating bills, retirement, etc.. we'd perform better on the PISA tests.

I read an article about how in Finland, when a kid was labeled as "failing", the kid received all kinds of services - from child psychologists to social welfare advocates. They would provide a team of professionals to help the "failing" kid. Perhaps if we had such great services, we wouldn't have to have "no child left behind" type initiatives.

Yes, the have tutoring and classes on Saturday and Sunday at MCPS schools. At least in Potomac and Bethesda. These services are not run by MCPS.

Anonymous wrote:

Which Asian countries outperform the US? Let me help you out. You don't have to leave the country. Go to your neighborhood school and ask your secondary school children who the high performers are?

My children's classmates are not Asian countries (or any other countries).

Sustained. Answer the question. Ask you children?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The US has been lagging behind prior to CC, so I don't understand how your argument addresses this specific topic. If we had kept the same curriculum and standards, you'd probably be complaining about them, too. So, again, your complaint has nothing to do with CC standards.

And yes, trying to compare the US education to other countries, especially the high-achieving Asian ones is an apples to oranges comparison. I found it really funny how the PISA country rankings singled out Shanghai from China. That was obviously a way to make "China" seem like it was higher in the rankings than they truly are. China has a huge underclass. If they took the whole of China, how would they rank? Would you be so inclined to say China has higher math standards?

If the US only took the scores from the wealthy cities, like the way China did, I'm sure the US would come up much higher in the rankings.

http://world.time.com/2013/12/04/china-is-cheating-the-world-student-rankings-system/

I'm actually from Korea, and I know what their education system is like.

Yes. US has been lagging prior to 2.0 and we were supplementing before that. My response was basically that if you are unhappy with MCPS math then you supplement at home.

I am in no way and shape saying that I am comparing the Math achievement of all students in China and India and Eastern Europe with American kids. I am comparing the performance of the middle class students of these countries to the US students. Considering how humongous their middle class population is, they will have a significant impact on the global market for white collar jobs.

Let's take the scores of only MCPS (the best school district) and we can see how very dismal the showing is. What is the failure rate on Algebra 2 exams?

How do you compare the "middle class" from those countries to the US? The scores are not segregated by "class". MCPS is also not "middle class" nor is it homogeneous. Seriously? Have you been to the eastern side of the county?

Anonymous wrote:

Yes. US has been lagging prior to 2.0 and we were supplementing before that. My response was basically that if you are unhappy with MCPS math then you supplement at home.

I am in no way and shape saying that I am comparing the Math achievement of all students in China and India and Eastern Europe with American kids. I am comparing the performance of the middle class students of these countries to the US students. Considering how humongous their middle class population is, they will have a significant impact on the global market for white collar jobs.

Let's take the scores of only MCPS (the best school district) and we can see how very dismal the showing is. What is the failure rate on Algebra 2 exams?

No, if you're going to compare the performance of middle-class students in China and India and Eastern Europe to students in the US, then you'll have to compare it to middle-class students in the US (or middle-class students in MCPS) -- not all students.

Anonymous wrote:
You don't have to go to an Asian country for weekend tutoring. They do this in Montgomery County. Have you attended any MCPS school over the weekends? Asian tutoring parlors. I wonder what MCPS (Starr) does with all the proceeds (rentals/fees)?

They have tutoring within the MCPS schools? This is not the same as the Saturday schools, right?

Perhaps if the non-Asian kids in this country were tutored everyday after school and on weekends, the US would show a better ranking in the PISA tests, too. Perhaps if the US government had much better social welfare programs, and the families didn't have to worry about healthcare, heating bills, retirement, etc.. we'd perform better on the PISA tests.

I read an article about how in Finland, when a kid was labeled as "failing", the kid received all kinds of services - from child psychologists to social welfare advocates. They would provide a team of professionals to help the "failing" kid. Perhaps if we had such great services, we wouldn't have to have "no child left behind" type initiatives.

Anonymous wrote:
The US has been lagging behind prior to CC, so I don't understand how your argument addresses this specific topic. If we had kept the same curriculum and standards, you'd probably be complaining about them, too. So, again, your complaint has nothing to do with CC standards.

And yes, trying to compare the US education to other countries, especially the high-achieving Asian ones is an apples to oranges comparison. I found it really funny how the PISA country rankings singled out Shanghai from China. That was obviously a way to make "China" seem like it was higher in the rankings than they truly are. China has a huge underclass. If they took the whole of China, how would they rank? Would you be so inclined to say China has higher math standards?

If the US only took the scores from the wealthy cities, like the way China did, I'm sure the US would come up much higher in the rankings.

http://world.time.com/2013/12/04/china-is-cheating-the-world-student-rankings-system/

I'm actually from Korea, and I know what their education system is like.

Yes. US has been lagging prior to 2.0 and we were supplementing before that. My response was basically that if you are unhappy with MCPS math then you supplement at home.

I am in no way and shape saying that I am comparing the Math achievement of all students in China and India and Eastern Europe with American kids. I am comparing the performance of the middle class students of these countries to the US students. Considering how humongous their middle class population is, they will have a significant impact on the global market for white collar jobs.

Let's take the scores of only MCPS (the best school district) and we can see how very dismal the showing is. What is the failure rate on Algebra 2 exams?

Anonymous wrote:PP really?? Don't play dumbo.

Yes, really. Answer the questions.

1. Which Asian countries? Asia is a big continent with lots of countries.
2. Which measures are you using to conclude the Asian countries outperform the US?

Anonymous wrote:Which Asian countries outperform the US? Let me help you out. You don't have to leave the country. Go to your neighborhood school and ask your secondary school children who the high performers are?

My children's classmates are not Asian countries (or any other countries).

Which Asian countries outperform the US? Let me help you out. You don't have to leave the country. Go to your neighborhood school and ask your secondary school children who the high performers are?

PP really?? Don't play dumbo.