Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 17:46     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am so frustrated when people who are pro-vaccine and denigrate people who delay immunizations as anti-science are also using dramatic, non-factual language.

It's fine to have different opinons, but when someone tells me that vaccines are 100% safe, with no chance of side effects and that all the vaccine preventable diseases had been eradicated it really doesn't do a lot to convince me. The exemptions in most states have been around since the 60's, so parents making new decisions is not something that occurred solely in the last decade. Plenty of parents questioned the safety of vaccines well, well before Andrew Wakefield.

Measles and pertussis behave in completely different ways, and cannot be controlled in the same way. Whooping cough has NEVER been eradicated in this country, and in fact there is a possibility it is changing its genetic structure: http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/pertussis-evolving/
Fully vaccinated individuals can carry pertussis with no clinical signs, and the vaccine is <80% effective (and that is generous).

Also only Measles is primarily dangerous to children. Rubella and mumps are hazardous to pregnant women and teenage/adult men. The MMR is coming under fire for perhaps not protecting against mumps as well as advertised: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html





Sorry, OP, you are anti-science.

The proof of this is all the inaccuracies in your post. No one ever said vaccines are 100% safe. No one ever said they didn't have side effects. No one ever said vaccine-preventable illnesses have been eradicated (though we'd be a whole lot closer if people got their kids vaccinated). Just because the measles and pertussis vaccines are given in the same shot doesn't mean they are the same vaccine, they are combined. No vaccine is 100% effective, but 80% is very high and the effectiveness of the measles vaccine is even higher.

And none of this makes any sense. If you only give your child treatments that are 100% effective with no side effects, ever, then you never give your child any medication of any kind.

I realize people like you are feeling defensive because of the shaming going on but really you should be shamed. Your ignorance shows through. Do you know how many children died of measles before vaccines? How many suffered permanent brain damage? But that sort of rational argument holds no weight with you because while you scream about needing facts, you discard them one by one as not good enough. No facts will ever be good enough for you. Stay away from em and my family.

+1
It's sometimes hard to believe we live in America.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 17:38     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
You should have to pay higher insurance premiums if you didn't or delay vaccinating
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 17:08     Subject: Re:Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
An infant that is being breastfed receives whatever immunities his or her mother has, so babies actually can have some protection before they are vaccinated. One of my children was born during a measles outbreak and the doctor was very reassuring that my baby had a lot of protection through my immunities (which had been checked during pregnancy).


Guess my breastmilk was inferior. My oldest got chicken pox while I was BFing him. He was too young to get the vaccine. I had chicken pox when I was a kid and had shingles 2 years before he was born so I know my antibodies to the chicken pox virus were high.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 17:08     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
My pediatrician has never once mentioned that I should avoid tylenol before vaccines. I learned about it from the internet
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 17:04     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Right...but the point is some of the pro-vaccine rhetoric is not actually fact. Which is extremely frustrating for people who really do want to know how things work and what certain risks are.
For instance, I just looked up rotavirus and breastfeeding. While the vaccine must be administered by 4 months so for vaccination is doesn't really matter, it was interesting that studies show a strong protective benefit from breastfeeding - but only for the first year. Also breastfeeding right after the vaccination may make the vaccine less effective.
Many people on DCUM have recommended giving Tylenol before vaccinations to help combat soreness....that's great except Tylenol can make the vaccines less effective. Again, accurate information is vital


The Tylenol thing before vaccines is new (a study came out in the last few years that suggests it may reduce the effctiveness of vaccines). I think this just means that you shouldn't get your advice from the Internet. Our pediatrician was all over this when the evidence came out.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 17:04     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:

Ermmmm... actually, not all parents in developing countries say that.

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/15/6/09-0087_article

Religious opposition by Muslim fundamentalists is a major factor in the failure of immunization programs against polio in Nigeria, Pakistan and Afghanistan. This religious conflict in the tribal areas of Pakistan is one of the biggest hindrances to effective polio vaccination. Epidemiologists have detected transmission of wild poliovirus from polio-endemic districts in Afghanistan, most of which are located in the southern region of this country bordering Pakistan, to tribal areas of Pakistan. This transmission has resulted in new cases of polio in previously polio-free districts. The local Taliban have issued fatwas denouncing vaccination as an American ploy to sterilize Muslim populations. Another common superstition spread by extremists is that vaccination is an attempt to avert the will of Allah. The Taliban have assassinated vaccination officials, including Abdul Ghani Marwat, who was the head of the government’s vaccination campaign in Bajaur Agency in the Pakistani tribal areas, on his way back from meeting a religious cleric. Over the past year, several kidnappings and beatings of vaccinators have been reported. Vaccination campaigns in Nigeria and Afghanistan have also been hampered by Islamic extremists, especially in the Nigerian province of Kano in 2003, which has resulted in the infection returning to 8 previously polio-free countries in Africa.


Rich hippies, Tea Party paranoiacs, and the Taliban... the anti-vax movement is making for some strange bedfellows.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 17:00     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
OP, what is your point? You claim you vaccinated your kids and your only really problem here is that someone on the internet said vaccines are 100% safe.

The fact that someone on the internet is wrong does not negate the fact there is a whole lot of science behind vaccines that is right.

And whoever said lots of kids are injured by vaccines, I call foul. Far, far FAR more children have died or had permanent brain damage from measles than from the measles vaccine.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 16:58     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Whether you agree or not there clearly are people with differing opinons.


Yes and if you express an opinion that is stupid as shit in my presence, I will tell you so.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 16:57     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric


Ermmmm... actually, not all parents in developing countries say that.

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/15/6/09-0087_article

Religious opposition by Muslim fundamentalists is a major factor in the failure of immunization programs against polio in Nigeria, Pakistan and Afghanistan. This religious conflict in the tribal areas of Pakistan is one of the biggest hindrances to effective polio vaccination. Epidemiologists have detected transmission of wild poliovirus from polio-endemic districts in Afghanistan, most of which are located in the southern region of this country bordering Pakistan, to tribal areas of Pakistan. This transmission has resulted in new cases of polio in previously polio-free districts. The local Taliban have issued fatwas denouncing vaccination as an American ploy to sterilize Muslim populations. Another common superstition spread by extremists is that vaccination is an attempt to avert the will of Allah. The Taliban have assassinated vaccination officials, including Abdul Ghani Marwat, who was the head of the government’s vaccination campaign in Bajaur Agency in the Pakistani tribal areas, on his way back from meeting a religious cleric. Over the past year, several kidnappings and beatings of vaccinators have been reported. Vaccination campaigns in Nigeria and Afghanistan have also been hampered by Islamic extremists, especially in the Nigerian province of Kano in 2003, which has resulted in the infection returning to 8 previously polio-free countries in Africa.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 16:57     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
I don't think we can force every random person to only speak accurate facts. People should be getting their medical info from medical professionals. We pro-vaccinators would be comfortable with that.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 16:52     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Right...but the point is some of the pro-vaccine rhetoric is not actually fact. Which is extremely frustrating for people who really do want to know how things work and what certain risks are.
For instance, I just looked up rotavirus and breastfeeding. While the vaccine must be administered by 4 months so for vaccination is doesn't really matter, it was interesting that studies show a strong protective benefit from breastfeeding - but only for the first year. Also breastfeeding right after the vaccination may make the vaccine less effective.
Many people on DCUM have recommended giving Tylenol before vaccinations to help combat soreness....that's great except Tylenol can make the vaccines less effective. Again, accurate information is vital
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 16:49     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
OP, I don't know of any credible medical professional who says any medical procedure, e.g., vaccines, is 100% safe. That just doesn't exist. But when you look at the actual risks, the benefits overwhelmingly outweigh the costs, for both individuals and society. You know darn well that the lack of truth comes from the anti-vaccine rhetoric, not those in support of it.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 16:47     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Whether you agree or not there clearly are people with differing opinons.


People can have any opinion they chose. However, it is a fact that 99 percent of children who get the MMR or chicken pox vaccine do not have a serious adverse reaction.

And, if current public holds, laws will be passed making it very difficult for parents to enroll children who are medically able to receive vaccines but have not done so from entering public school.


Over 99%. 99% would be 1/100 kids having a serious reaction.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 16:44     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Whether you agree or not there clearly are people with differing opinons.


But people aren't entitled to their own facts.
Anonymous
Post 02/05/2015 16:32     Subject: Lack of true scientific understanding in all vaccine rhetoric
Anonymous wrote:Whether you agree or not there clearly are people with differing opinons.


People can have any opinion they chose. However, it is a fact that 99 percent of children who get the MMR or chicken pox vaccine do not have a serious adverse reaction.

And, if current public holds, laws will be passed making it very difficult for parents to enroll children who are medically able to receive vaccines but have not done so from entering public school.