Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP says: gaslighting sounds like an understatement. He says this is how everyone acts in a big city (I moved here from a small town) and that this is what everyone does. I'm just over sensitive, blah blah blah.

Then why did she call him immediately when she saw your number? Why did he demand you leave her alone? Why did she start crying and insisting she wasn't a bad person? Cheating is one thing, but lying and trying to make you believe you're crazy is another. He is having an affair and treating you poorly.

This. If it was just 2 colleagues/friends going out for drinks (for 4 HOURS - yeah right), there wouldn't have been that string of phone calls. If I (a woman) am out to drinks with a male colleague and say we've just left the bar and his wife calls my phone -- I would likely not pick up as I wouldn't recognize the number or if I picked up I'd say "hey Steve's wife -- we actually just left an event so I'm not with him right now, I'm happy to email him and tell him you're looking for him" -- if I knew I was doing nothing, no other explanation or tears would be necessary, and I'd assume that he had told her that he was out with a female and she was ok with it; if he hadn't -- oh well, not my problem to cry about it and tearfully explain when I did nothing wrong.

This whole string of -- you called her; he immediately called you demanding you not speak to her; you demanded to speak to her; she called you and started with tears and "I'm not a bad person" suggests that they BOTH know they're doing something wrong and he's trying to pull one over on you by saying "oh you simple country girl, this is how big city life is."

I'm not as averse to male-female coworker friendships as most of this website -- mostly bc I work in a profession with long hours and travel BUT I think it's different when we're on the road in Vancouver and decide to get a drink bc neither of us can get home to our family that night anyway; even then I'd never stay out for that many hours alone with one male colleague as I wouldn't want him or anyone to get the wrong idea. It's more like -- we both have to eat, we're both sick of room service, let's just go grab something and be done and back to our respective hotel rooms in 60-90 min where you can watch TV, call your family, whatever. BUT when you're working a 9-5 job in the same city as your family, who goes out after work with one colleague of the opposite sex for FOUR+ hours when your wife and kids are waiting at home for you!? I'd kind of understand if a group of people went out and lost track of time or if this was the firm Christmas party and they decided to hit up a bar after, but 4+ hours with one woman -- yeah -- they're doing it.

I am sorry but he sounds like he is cheating. Since he is not the father of your kids, I would pack his bags and leave them at the door saying he made his choice. You sound like a great person and do not need this.

Anonymous wrote:OP says: gaslighting sounds like an understatement. He says this is how everyone acts in a big city (I moved here from a small town) and that this is what everyone does. I'm just over sensitive, blah blah blah.

Then why did she call him immediately when she saw your number? Why did he demand you leave her alone? Why did she start crying and insisting she wasn't a bad person? Cheating is one thing, but lying and trying to make you believe you're crazy is another. He is having an affair and treating you poorly.

Anonymous wrote:From OP: I found out because he didn't come home when he said - he said he was coming home for dinner around 5. I texted him, no reply at around 8:30. About 9:30 still no word. He has heart problems so I'm getting worried. I go into our phone bill online and I see hundreds of text messages between my husband and this number. I call the number. It's this woman's voice mail. i see on the computer an immediate call going to my husband. then my husband calls me and orders me not to speak with her. i said to my husband, she had better speak to me now. She calls me. she starts weeping and saying I'm not a bad person, I'm not a bad person." I said what's going on? She replies DH is a dear friend. I asked what does that mean? Then she spills that he confides in her. I said like what? And she goes on about the things in the original post and swears that they are just friends. So, since I'm getting only denials, I'm dealing with what I know are facts - that he trashes me when he's out with this woman. He says he was ignorant that it's an unspoken boundary - that no one knows that you shouldn't go around trashing your wife, that I don't socialize much and this is normal behavior.

He says he coming home at 5 and he is not home and not even calling at 930? hundreds of texts? She calls back crying and he orders you not to talk to her? this is not happy hour, this is not an emotional affair, this is a full blown an affair. Unfortunately it does not sound like he will be at all remorseful. I suggest you look on surviving infidelity and do a 180. Ask him to leave, tell him he is free to conduct his affair, but not while he is living with you, see a lawyer.

Time to get a divorce.

Anonymous wrote:OP says: Does it matter if its an affair or an EA? It would both feel the same to me. I asked him directly if he would show me his phone. I'm not going to sneak behind his back. He had already wiped it from all data.

Actually what has me flipped is I really had no clue that he didn't think things were going well or at least normal. The negative picture given to to this lady from work bothers me because its very different from my perception. I understand people need to vent, I don't think work is the place to do it. I am actually not sure that he speaks this way to everyone at work, and I'm not about to take a survey.

I would be more flipped about trusting him and finding out I was lied to. I have never been a person who felt I had to check up on or spy on my spouse, and I felt that he would be truthful and faithful. Maybe it would just make me sad.

It's clear that Somethings off. I don't know what to do to even try to begin to fix this.

Right now my position is: if DH wasn't clear enough about my expectations of minimal loyalty and really didn't know not to trash me at work, now I've requested it to stop along with the happy hours with this lady.

DH is saying the one with the problem is me.

What's the next step?

I already thought he was cheating, but this is additional proof. He should not have erased those messages. That means he wrote something he doesn't want you to know. Anything he does with another woman that he's hiding from his wife (even just texts) is cheating. Period. You're done. Get out of there, who knows what else he's going to order you to do.

Anonymous wrote:From OP: I found out because he didn't come home when he said - he said he was coming home for dinner around 5. I texted him, no reply at around 8:30. About 9:30 still no word. He has heart problems so I'm getting worried. I go into our phone bill online and I see hundreds of text messages between my husband and this number. I call the number. It's this woman's voice mail. i see on the computer an immediate call going to my husband. then my husband calls me and orders me not to speak with her. i said to my husband, she had better speak to me now. She calls me. she starts weeping and saying I'm not a bad person, I'm not a bad person." I said what's going on? She replies DH is a dear friend. I asked what does that mean? Then she spills that he confides in her. I said like what? And she goes on about the things in the original post and swears that they are just friends. So, since I'm getting only denials, I'm dealing with what I know are facts - that he trashes me when he's out with this woman. He says he was ignorant that it's an unspoken boundary - that no one knows that you shouldn't go around trashing your wife, that I don't socialize much and this is normal behavior.

Oh, so he already cheated. Don't worry about what he complained about, address the fact that he cheated and now he's lying about it.

OP says: gaslighting sounds like an understatement. He says this is how everyone acts in a big city (I moved here from a small town) and that this is what everyone does. I'm just over sensitive, blah blah blah.

OP, you are sort of fixated on the wrong things right now. It's not the trashing you or not that matters. It's the lying to you and evading your inquiries.

What you should do is decide if you want to stay married to him and try and fix the problems or not. This is your decision, not his. Hint: the problems are NOT the ones he's reported to this woman. The problem is his lying to you, his attempts to manipulate you, and his cultivating affairs. He is going to try and make you think you caused this by clipping too many coupons or whatever. Keep your eye on the ball. HE caused this by having an affair. He broke vows. You did not. It's a big problem to fix but some people do it. Are you going to be one of them?

After you've made that decision--for yourself--you proceed. Either you work to fix the problems by scheduling therapy, etc or you start working on the divorce.

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is an affair, whether physical or emotional. He is on the verge of gas lighting you, if he hasn't started to already. His complaints about you and your marriage is the bait to lure the OW.

a pp here. He already is gaslighting her. He's telling OP that his behavior is normal and she's the weird one for thinking it's wrong.

Anonymous wrote:OP says: Does it matter if its an affair or an EA? It would both feel the same to me. I asked him directly if he would show me his phone. I'm not going to sneak behind his back. He had already wiped it from all data.

Actually what has me flipped is I really had no clue that he didn't think things were going well or at least normal. The negative picture given to to this lady from work bothers me because its very different from my perception. I understand people need to vent, I don't think work is the place to do it. I am actually not sure that he speaks this way to everyone at work, and I'm not about to take a survey.

I would be more flipped about trusting him and finding out I was lied to. I have never been a person who felt I had to check up on or spy on my spouse, and I felt that he would be truthful and faithful. Maybe it would just make me sad.

It's clear that Somethings off. I don't know what to do to even try to begin to fix this.

Right now my position is: if DH wasn't clear enough about my expectations of minimal loyalty and really didn't know not to trash me at work, now I've requested it to stop along with the happy hours with this lady.

DH is saying the one with the problem is me.

What's the next step?

OP, I'm so sorry. Based on your updates he is cheating on you- physically cheating on you! This woman would NOT have started crying and saying she was not a terrible person just for having some happy hours and conversation (inappropriate though it may be).
And since his stance is that you have the problem, it doesn't sound like he is going to break off this affair and work on your marriage. You should start preparing yourself for all potential outcomes, OP.

Is he going out with just her or a group. Before kids I was one of two women in our Happy Hour crowd. I heard every complaint you can think of above the wives of the married ones. People talk about their lives all the time, however if it getting back to you, your husband chose the wrong person with whom to share. Also if they are going out alone for drinks to chat I think it would make me uncomfortable.

OP, this is an affair, whether physical or emotional. He is on the verge of gas lighting you, if he hasn't started to already. His complaints about you and your marriage is the bait to lure the OW.

wake up, OP, he's having an affair.

no one sends hundreds of texts to a coworker.

and no one freaks out when said coworker's wife calls the number.

sorry. I'm willing to bet its a physical affair. He will deny, deny, deny and gaslight you. Be prepared.

Anonymous wrote:I think he's trying to start an affair with her. He's comparing you unfavorably to her and suggesting that he's in an unhappy marriage. Which may or may not be true, but that's what he's telling her because that's what guys do when they want to justify an affair to themselves and to the prospective OW. Keep tabs on him, OP. Trouble is brewing. Hopefully she isn't interested.

+1

This is step one to seeing if someone is open to an affair - complaining about their spouse.