She *could* be lying...but now that there's an investigation underway, she'll be quickly discredited if she made the whole thing up.

My two cents: something obviously happened that night and the school obviously has some sort of record of the victim contacting school personnel and discussing the matter...otherwise the school would have immediately come out to defend itself by saying this is the first they are hearing about this.

I am stunned that the victim's friends were so cold and uncaring, despite her obvious distress and what sounds like visible injuries from being beaten. When I think back to my freshman year of college i can not imagine even one of my friends reacting that way, let alone a whole group of them. Telling her she should have enjoyed it? That she'll be "that girl" and ruin their chances at getting into a sorority or fraternity? I just can't wrap my brain around the fact that it wasn't just one crappy (personality disordered) friend who treated her this way, but several, according to the article. And that their own social status was the first thing they thought of upon seeing her immediately afterward in obvious physical and emotional distress. Unfathomable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm going to be majorly flamed for putting this out there, but why is everyone so absolutely certain that the allegations are true?

You should be "majorly flamed." What precisely would anyone gain from claiming to have been raped by seven men? Why do you people fasten on false allegations - which do happen - even though not reporting rape is far more common?

I can completely understand why she wouldn't have reported it right away and I also have no doubt that rape is underreported. The problem I have with this article and the reactions is that it is making many very serious and shocking claims that are tarnishing the school and there is no proof that they occurred. Everyone involved in the article from the alleged victim, assailant and friends are all anonymous. The article makes claims that I honestly have a hard time fathoming. That the seven men premeditated an incredibly violent gang rape, that her friends that supposedly saw her immediately afterwards reacted in an incredibly callous way, that she saw the man a few days later and he thanked her for the great evening, and even the remark later on from the girl who said she should have just enjoyed having sex with seven hot psy phi's seem a bit hard for me to accept. Of course, it's possible that it could all be true. What's also a possibility, is that the woman who approached Rolling Stone with these allegations could for whatever reason be lying. Yes, sexual atrocities can and do occur, even at places like UVA; but there are unstable women who lie about rape also.

Double geez 9:39 - that "always only ever rapes"???

WTF? So they don't always rape...just sometimes?

I am male and went to UVA in the 80s. I always had a hard time understanding the fraternity system. It serves no useful purpose other than to codify and isolate existing social groups. The reality is that it just served as a way for older students to score alcohol for selected underage students.

After reading this article, I think the whole system should be banned. I understand that many frats are probably fine, but if you have no social value or negative social value in the form of criminal behavior like rape, drugs, etc, then what is the point. Force these guys to live off campus where it is harder to lure Freshman and where the legal jurisdiction is clear.

I am disgusted by this story and I hope at a minimum that Kappa Psi Phi is gone. This is just as bad as Penn State, an institution that systemically ignore abuse to protect it's name.

Geez, 9:39...try reading the entire post you are quoting..perhaps slowly.

Here's the point: maybe the pp who confessed to being the drunk girl who went upstairs with frat boys at parties was never raped because there was never a need for a guy to contemplate that since it was known that she put out. Understand? But I suspect that some new freshman who seemed a bit naïve might have had a different experience at a frat party.

Anonymous wrote:To 9:29 - I hear what you are saying, but I don't think that's the point the pp you quoted is trying to make. Given that folks are slamming all frats and making it sound like this sort of rape culture is the norm at frats, I believe she is merely putting it out there that it's not necessarily the norm at all frats (as evidenced by the fact that she essentially made herself a target and yet was never raped and never heard of such behavior).

Having said that, one could draw the conclusion that there's no need for a frat boy to rape a willing partner.

It is not possible to rape a consenting partner. By definition.

Also, rape culture being the norm at frats does not mean that every frat brother always only ever rapes.

To 9:29 - I hear what you are saying, but I don't think that's the point the pp you quoted is trying to make. Given that folks are slamming all frats and making it sound like this sort of rape culture is the norm at frats, I believe she is merely putting it out there that it's not necessarily the norm at all frats (as evidenced by the fact that she essentially made herself a target and yet was never raped and never heard of such behavior).

Having said that, one could draw the conclusion that there's no need for a frat boy to rape a willing partner.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm going to be majorly flamed for putting this out there, but why is everyone so absolutely certain that the allegations are true?

Yeah, I went to a college like this and had bad experiences like so many people, but this story...

I was the drunken girl who went upstairs at many frat parties and never experienced or even heard of anything that came close to this.

I'm a woman, I hitch hiked several times when I was in my early 20s, nothing bad happened to me, therefore nothing bad happens to women who hitch hike. Right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm going to be majorly flamed for putting this out there, but why is everyone so absolutely certain that the allegations are true?

Yeah, I went to a college like this and had bad experiences like so many people, but this story...

I was the drunken girl who went upstairs at many frat parties and never experienced or even heard of anything that came close to this.

I'm sure many women walked in the dark and accepted help from strangers too and nothing bad happened. Does that make what happened to Hannah Graham not real?

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm going to be majorly flamed for putting this out there, but why is everyone so absolutely certain that the allegations are true?

You should be "majorly flamed." What precisely would anyone gain from claiming to have been raped by seven men? Why do you people fasten on false allegations - which do happen - even though not reporting rape is far more common?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm going to be majorly flamed for putting this out there, but why is everyone so absolutely certain that the allegations are true?

Yeah, I went to a college like this and had bad experiences like so many people, but this story...

I was the drunken girl who went upstairs at many frat parties and never experienced or even heard of anything that came close to this.

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm going to be majorly flamed for putting this out there, but why is everyone so absolutely certain that the allegations are true?

Because we trust a journalistic system that at least checks the body of facts. We see dozens of other UVa women coming out of the woodwork to share their similar stories over the last 30 years. Because why would a woman still on grounds lie in this large of a manner to a major publication, an act that by UVA's honor code *could* have her expelled, though some are saying rape can't face the same sanction.

Kind of reminds me of Duke LAX all over again.

Anonymous wrote:I know I'm going to be majorly flamed for putting this out there, but why is everyone so absolutely certain that the allegations are true?

Yeah, I went to a college like this and had bad experiences like so many people, but this story...