Anonymous
Post 11/20/2014 08:13     Subject: So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is it Christianity, Judaism, Islam? Is Jesus the son of god or is Mohammed? What about Joseph Smith? Maybe the Mormons have it right. Is the Bible the true word of God and not the Torah? Do we get to heaven by belief, actions, or martyrdom.

Does anyone else think this is all ridiculous? I respect people but I don't respect silly ideas no matter how old they may be. The way I see it you're all arguing over nothing and wasting what precious time we do have.


OP isn't askng for the "right answer." OP thinks she knows the right answer. She wants to have a little fun here, and in particular she wants to trash herself some Christians. This is obvious from her first post, above. Why are we humoring her?


Have you heard of Christian humanism? It's taking the good parts of Christianity - kindness, love, compassion, etc as a basis for living, without the supernatural/mythical elements. Jews do it too -- in fact they are more organized at this point -- they have humanistic congregations around the country - one in DC.




I agree with you completely about the Christian humanists. OP isn't a Christian humanist, though--she claimed Jesus "never existed" and then she moved on to "ok, well, um, maybe he existed but he wasn't divine, and wanna talk about the Romans forcing people to be Christian, huh, huh?" only after several posters provided links about his existence. OP has her own reasons for thinking this is amusing, but OP's little game seems like a pointless waste of time for anybody besides OP.

Why don't we talk with actual Christian humanists, instead? At least we'd get past "Jesus never existed, nyah, nyah!" Maybe we could get into some points on what Jesus actually said. I'm all for looking into the historical, pre-350AD Jesus. I just think we're all wasting our time on OP's childish games.
Anonymous
Post 11/20/2014 07:39     Subject: Re:So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Even if you don't view Jesus as divine, I think you'd have to concede he is exceptional, along with a very few others like Buddha and Mohammed. What they taught had the power to galvanize millions of people through many centuries to adopt these teachings as a way of like. There are definitely not "thousands" of teachers and philosophers like them.


It's not that hard, once you have the Roman empire on your side and are forced to believe under pain of death.


Mock away. The fact is that centuries after the fall of the Roman empire fell, Christianity continued to spread and grow and is still growing today in an era where freedom of religion is the norm. The same is true of Islam and Buddhism.


don't forget the Holy Roman Empire that later ruled Europe and the Vatican that held sway over the monarchies. People were illiterate (except for clergy) and forced to be Catholic -- there were no other religions in Europe, except for the Jews who were persecuted (or converted) and the muslims in Southern Spain who were ultimately conquered and expelled. It wasn't until the reformation in the 1500's that "the Church" started losing its power.
Anonymous
Post 11/20/2014 07:33     Subject: So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is it Christianity, Judaism, Islam? Is Jesus the son of god or is Mohammed? What about Joseph Smith? Maybe the Mormons have it right. Is the Bible the true word of God and not the Torah? Do we get to heaven by belief, actions, or martyrdom.

Does anyone else think this is all ridiculous? I respect people but I don't respect silly ideas no matter how old they may be. The way I see it you're all arguing over nothing and wasting what precious time we do have.


OP isn't askng for the "right answer." OP thinks she knows the right answer. She wants to have a little fun here, and in particular she wants to trash herself some Christians. This is obvious from her first post, above. Why are we humoring her?


Have you heard of Christian humanism? It's taking the good parts of Christianity - kindness, love, compassion, etc as a basis for living, without the supernatural/mythical elements. Jews do it too -- in fact they are more organized at this point -- they have humanistic congregations around the country - one in DC.
Anonymous
Post 11/20/2014 07:29     Subject: So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. The greatest love story ever told . If you truly seek God with an open heart , it leads to the God made flesh and the hope of forgiveness , grace and eternal life.


And if you don't, you go straight to hell. Thus saith the Lord.


If you have a hard heart yes.


no -- simply if you don't believe. There are many warm-hearted humanists who have studied the Bible and simply do not believe based on what they've learned. They are not hard-hearted. They are reasonable and receptive to evidence -- the way they are in other aspects of their lives. They don't close off religion as an area that can't be examined in the same way.
Anonymous
Post 11/20/2014 06:42     Subject: So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:Is it Christianity, Judaism, Islam? Is Jesus the son of god or is Mohammed? What about Joseph Smith? Maybe the Mormons have it right. Is the Bible the true word of God and not the Torah? Do we get to heaven by belief, actions, or martyrdom.

Does anyone else think this is all ridiculous? I respect people but I don't respect silly ideas no matter how old they may be. The way I see it you're all arguing over nothing and wasting what precious time we do have.


OP isn't askng for the "right answer." OP thinks she knows the right answer. She wants to have a little fun here, and in particular she wants to trash herself some Christians. This is obvious from her first post, above. Why are we humoring her?
Anonymous
Post 11/20/2014 00:44     Subject: So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. The greatest love story ever told . If you truly seek God with an open heart , it leads to the God made flesh and the hope of forgiveness , grace and eternal life.


And if you don't, you go straight to hell. Thus saith the Lord.


If you have a hard heart yes.
Anonymous
Post 11/20/2014 00:04     Subject: Re:So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Even if you don't view Jesus as divine, I think you'd have to concede he is exceptional, along with a very few others like Buddha and Mohammed. What they taught had the power to galvanize millions of people through many centuries to adopt these teachings as a way of like. There are definitely not "thousands" of teachers and philosophers like them.


It's not that hard, once you have the Roman empire on your side and are forced to believe under pain of death.


Mock away. The fact is that centuries after the fall of the Roman empire fell, Christianity continued to spread and grow and is still growing today in an era where freedom of religion is the norm. The same is true of Islam and Buddhism.
Anonymous
Post 11/20/2014 00:01     Subject: Re:So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Almost no scholar disputes that Jesus existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus


but some do and even so "existing" isn't being the son of god or even a revered figure in his time. Paul made Jesus and the virgin birth/son of god/ resurrection stories are straight out of earlier mythologies.


Jesus's existence is close to indisputable--you can feel free to cling to your view that ,maybe he was completely legendary, but the weight of evidence is strongly against you. History can say nothing about whether he was the don of God or not. Was he a revered figure in his time? Probably a bit of love-hate. He had passionate followers, who ardently spread his message following his death. He was hailed as he entered Jerusalem on Palm Sunday. But a mere few days later the crowds were crying for hm to be crucified. So clear a lot of people even outside the Sanhedrin did not revere him--quite the opposite.

Yes--virgin birth was a theme present at that time. In Mithraism, for example. Virgin birth emphasized the importance of the matrilineal line, a much more ancient arrangement than a patrilineal arrangement. In the New Testament the matrilineal line links Jesus to the House of David.

Yes, there was a theme of resurrection--Osiris for one, Or look at Achilles in the Iliad who disappears from the scene of battle for a prolonged period, only to come back in a blaze of glory, which may have primeval reference to the disappearance of Sirius from human view in the northern hemisphere for a period of time many millenia ago. Tamuz for another, which may have been the inspiration for Persephone, or perhaps that latter arose separately. Both are rooted in the resurrection of the earth every year in spring after it dies during winter.

So the story of Jesus embeds primal ways of thinking reflective of humans' earliest consciousness--so what?
Anonymous
Post 11/19/2014 23:53     Subject: So what's the RIGHT answer?
There are highly educated and sophisticated people who are Christians, but it's not because they believe the bible is a history book -- Many of them have studies the Bibl in a scholarly way and they know it's myth based and that there are many discrepancies. They believe because they have faith.

Religious faith is a very powerful thing for people who have it. They may have their doubts along the way but the doubts somehow always dissipate and are replaced an even stronger faith.
Anonymous
Post 11/19/2014 23:45     Subject: So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Notice how in pretty much every religion, God didn't have daughters, didn't make women prophets, or reveal prophecies to them. Hmmm...


I think Zeus had daughters, but no one believes in him anymore. I wonder when people stopped believing in the Greek gods. how did it happen? How long did it take?


It's fascinating to me how people look at Greek mythology, and easily dismiss it as BS, but somehow put more credibility in the Abrahamic mythologies. How is it any different??

Half-man, half-bird moon gods or whatever are not the same as real, actual people, about whom there is a historical record. Please try actually reading the Bible. You'll see that it is very specific in its dates and geography. To call it "mythology" is absurd and willfully ignorant.


A virgin birth to a god is *not* absurd? And not mythology? LOL.

Matthew 1 and Luke 3 fully recount in great detail the exact lineage of Christ on both Mary's side and Joseph's side. The book of Isaiah (Isaiah 7:14) foretells the virgin birth 800 years before the fact. Matthew 2 recounts the people of Bethlehem being fully aware of the prophecies of Christ's birth from the Scriptures (what is now the Old Testament). Isaiah 53, also hundreds of years in advance, clearly foretells the crucifixion. The Old Testament is filled with both prophecies and foreshadowings of Christ. You may choose not to believe who Christ is, but this is very much different from mythology.


not really -- any scholar will tell you that the Bible is written just like myth and not at all like history. I hope you're just making this up and didn't learn it from a supposedly reliable source at Church - like a religious ed teacher or minister who knows better.

So you're using the Bible to prove the Bible. Right.

No, I did not claim that I proved anything about the Bible being true by using the Bible (though I do believe the Bible is true). What I did say was that the Bible is written with such specificity, detail and historicity that it is something only the most willfully ignorant will attempt to dismiss as "mythology." You may not like what it says, and you may not believe what it says, but it says what it says in a vastly qualitatively different way than "mythology." That was my point. There is an extreme amount of information in it that can, and has been, verified as being historically true, so much so that many people believe its supernatural claims because it is reliable in so many other ways.
Anonymous
Post 11/19/2014 23:42     Subject: Re:So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Almost no scholar disputes that Jesus existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Yes, and it's interesting that all the accounts we have of Christ describe Him as the Son of God. Why do so many accept that Christ existed, and then dispute the actual accounts we have of Him?


Do you think that Jesus is the only person who had accounts by others, claiming divinity?

Every religion and religious has their internal stories that they tell themselves, but somehow dismiss others as illegitimate.

That's why the Resurrection is so important.


those other gods resurrected too -- google it
Anonymous
Post 11/19/2014 23:39     Subject: So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. The greatest love story ever told . If you truly seek God with an open heart , it leads to the God made flesh and the hope of forgiveness , grace and eternal life.


And if you don't, you go straight to hell. Thus saith the Lord.
Anonymous
Post 11/19/2014 23:38     Subject: Re:So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:Almost no scholar disputes that Jesus existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus


but some do and even so "existing" isn't being the son of god or even a revered figure in his time. Paul made Jesus and the virgin birth/son of god/ resurrection stories are straight out of earlier mythologies.
Anonymous
Post 11/19/2014 23:37     Subject: So what's the RIGHT answer?
Jesus is the way, the truth and the light. The greatest love story ever told . If you truly seek God with an open heart , it leads to the God made flesh and the hope of forgiveness , grace and eternal life.
Anonymous
Post 11/19/2014 23:35     Subject: Re:So what's the RIGHT answer?
Anonymous wrote:Even if you don't view Jesus as divine, I think you'd have to concede he is exceptional, along with a very few others like Buddha and Mohammed. What they taught had the power to galvanize millions of people through many centuries to adopt these teachings as a way of like. There are definitely not "thousands" of teachers and philosophers like them.


It's not that hard, once you have the Roman empire on your side and are forced to believe under pain of death.