Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As with any "how do you make ends meet in DC" thread - I feel the need to point out that not doing take out, cutting beauty appointments, and putting a hault on shopping only does so much. The biggest ticket items in your budget need to be lower than you otherwise would have them so that you can afford the extra childcare expenses. So, could we with a HHI of 220k afford 3k/month in rent? Sure, if we didn't have to pay childcare on top of that, didn't care about 529 contributions, etc etc etc.

So, we live in places with a monthly rent of <2k, and childcare happens to be cheaper out here - 1400/month for infants and 1000/month for preschool. Limiting take out, manicures, and shopping saves a few hundred a month but if you're coming up 2k a month short, not able to afford childcare, then cooking at home more often isn't going to bridge that gap. You have to make big, substantial cuts in other areas. It may require moving, which I know no one wants to hear, but that's better than stopping your retirement contributions IMO.

For many of us who live in the city, we are car-free. Moving farther out to save a few hundred dollars would be totally offset by having to buy 2 cars. Plus, moving would cost us thousands of dollars in fixing up and selling our condo and likely an overlap in mortgage/rent. No way would that help us.

+1 ... and even if you already have a car, adding on to commute time = extra gas $ and having to pay for longer daycare hours. Sometimes trying to get your mortgage as low as possible by moving farther out is penny-wise, pound foolish.

Anonymous wrote: Also, a lot of PPs have pointed out that weekend activities change once you have kids. I imagine we'll be spending more time at home, ordering pizza, going to the park, etc. as opposed to going to concerts and trying new restaurants. In-home daycare might be worth researching for us or perhaps daycare in the burbs will be cheaper than what my friends closer-in pay.

I'm glad to know there are others out there who make things work in order to have kids!

Of course, ordering pizza once in awhile is fine and fun - if you don't already know how to cook well from scratch, in bulk - that will be a massive money saver for you, not to mention, time, sanity, and health. I basically double every recipe I make and stick one in the freezer, assuming it is a freezing-friendly recipe. I've got my slow cooker recipes down to a science.

Food is one of the largest expenses for a family following housing and is one where there is a lot of room for savings depending on how much time and skill you can put into it.

$2k for quality infant daycare doesn't seem very far off to me, so I wouldn't count on that being much lower.

Anonymous wrote:As with any "how do you make ends meet in DC" thread - I feel the need to point out that not doing take out, cutting beauty appointments, and putting a hault on shopping only does so much. The biggest ticket items in your budget need to be lower than you otherwise would have them so that you can afford the extra childcare expenses. So, could we with a HHI of 220k afford 3k/month in rent? Sure, if we didn't have to pay childcare on top of that, didn't care about 529 contributions, etc etc etc.

So, we live in places with a monthly rent of <2k, and childcare happens to be cheaper out here - 1400/month for infants and 1000/month for preschool. Limiting take out, manicures, and shopping saves a few hundred a month but if you're coming up 2k a month short, not able to afford childcare, then cooking at home more often isn't going to bridge that gap. You have to make big, substantial cuts in other areas. It may require moving, which I know no one wants to hear, but that's better than stopping your retirement contributions IMO.

For many of us who live in the city, we are car-free. Moving farther out to save a few hundred dollars would be totally offset by having to buy 2 cars. Plus, moving would cost us thousands of dollars in fixing up and selling our condo and likely an overlap in mortgage/rent. No way would that help us.

Anonymous wrote:DH and I spend a third of our net pay (after paying for health insurance and retirement) toward our mortgage, which is well within normal lending standards. Then by the time we pay a car payment, about $400/month in student loans, routine bills, groceries, put money toward savings, etc., it feels like there isn't a ton left. We are 30 and 35 trying for a family and people keep telling us that you just "make it work" when you have kids -- but I am stressed about swinging 2k a month on infant daycare on top of all the other costs of raising a kid.

I know we can tighten our belts and make it work by cutting back on things like traveling to friends' weddings, occasional happy hours, etc. But, I can't help but feel that with two graduate school educations and a HHI of 180k a year, we shouldn't just be "getting by" in order to start a family.

I was the first in my family to graduate college and my family lived very comfortably (nice house, vacations, college paid for, etc) off one in income earned by my dad who had just a HS diploma. It's kind of depressing how hard it is now to live a middle class life.

What do all you parents do to make it work? Please no snarky comments that we just shouldn't have kids. Having a family shouldn't be a privilege just for those who make 400k/year.

The key is "net pay". Your taxes are too high . Blame democrats.

Anonymous wrote:OP again, my mortgage is actually more like 30% take home after taxes, maxing retirement, healthcare, and our car payment (I forgot it automatically goes into a separate credit union account). We barely take any deductions, so we'll be getting around 12k back on taxes this year, so this also lowers our take home pay. We have a 3 bedroom house, outside the beltway in NoVa, that is about 30-40 min. to both our jobs. We stretched a bit to be in a good school district because that was really important to us.

I wasn't trying to stir a debate about my housing. I truly just wanted helpful advice/perspective from other families in the area who make it work with a middle class income.

I love the ideas about toys off Craigslist, signing up for a babysitting sharing service, bulking up on diapers when they are on sale, etc. Also, a lot of PPs have pointed out that weekend activities change once you have kids. I imagine we'll be spending more time at home, ordering pizza, going to the park, etc. as opposed to going to concerts and trying new restaurants. In-home daycare might be worth researching for us or perhaps daycare in the burbs will be cheaper than what my friends closer-in pay.

I'm glad to know there are others out there who make things work in order to have kids!

We have a similar HHI and mortgage (in the suburbs). We're really happy with our 2 yo DS's 1300/mo daycare center. We have one car payment, minimal student loans, and moderate commuting costs. We max out retirement, budget every dollar, and some months we pull from savings for unexpected expenses; our annual bonuses go back to savings to balance that out. Something I want to point about about all the money-saving tips and tricks: you need TIME to use them which - more so than even money - is going to be a precious resource once you have a baby. When you factor in daycare drop-off/pick-up into your commuting time, plus the demands of your career on top of caring for an infant in the evenings, you will need weekends to catch up on household stuff you don't have time for during the week. DCUMs advice on this point is usually "OUTSOURCE", but what if you can't afford that? I don't mean to be doom and gloom, but so often on these boards the question is about finances and the answer comes in the form of a barrage of cost-cutting tips. What you need to examine and prepare for is the affect of having a child on your time to accomplish things in a household where both parents work full-time. Who will be responsible for scouring Craigslist for a bouncer and cutting coupons? Who will organize and schedule doctors appointments, required forms, clothing and supplies for daycare? Who will make sure work clothes get to the dry cleaner and get picked up? You get the idea. We worked up a decent budget and comparison shopped before our baby was born, and we felt financially prepared even though our salaries are on the low average side for the area. Our rude awakening came when we were both exhausted, both had work demands, and both felt the other needed to do more to keep our household up and running. We've worked it out and I can truly say even though our finances are tight, we're happy. But I do wish someone had urged me to do more planning from a time and logistics perspective rather than a financial one.

Anonymous wrote:

Sorry I should have said I didn't need advice. Could have spared you typing all that up, but thanks. Those are great numbers for your age. Despite our $11,000 bill we manage fine - or income is about $320k and we live on $120k much like you. This month was atypical.

Yeah, I figured someone with that much disposable income is probably doing okay You never know if there is someone else out there it might resonate with though, so I don't mind writing it. I should have been more generic and not made it sound like I was only talking to "you."

It change my life so much, I'm just really passionate about sharing that with other people. It's not right for everyone at every time, but I hope someone stumbles across it and it brings some new ideas to them.

Making $320k and living on $120k is awesome. Even if you only do it for a short phase of your life, it creates so many choices and opportunities in the future.

Anonymous wrote:OP again, my mortgage is actually more like 30% take home after taxes, maxing retirement, healthcare, and our car payment (I forgot it automatically goes into a separate credit union account). We barely take any deductions, so we'll be getting around 12k back on taxes this year, so this also lowers our take home pay. We have a 3 bedroom house, outside the beltway in NoVa, that is about 30-40 min. to both our jobs. We stretched a bit to be in a good school district because that was really important to us.

I wasn't trying to stir a debate about my housing. I truly just wanted helpful advice/perspective from other families in the area who make it work with a middle class income.

I love the ideas about toys off Craigslist, signing up for a babysitting sharing service, bulking up on diapers when they are on sale, etc. Also, a lot of PPs have pointed out that weekend activities change once you have kids. I imagine we'll be spending more time at home, ordering pizza, going to the park, etc. as opposed to going to concerts and trying new restaurants. In-home daycare might be worth researching for us or perhaps daycare in the burbs will be cheaper than what my friends closer-in pay.

I'm glad to know there are others out there who make things work in order to have kids!

Fwiw, I think you're housing expenses are more than fine. You'll be ok and will be able to afford child care. If you have to, cut back on savings, but I bet you can make it work just by trimming the fat in your budget. Your HHI is about the same as what ours was when we had our first baby 3 years ago. I was totally panicked about affording everything, but we cut back on our monthly expenses, refinanced the mortgage, and it all worked out. One tip--we did a nannyshare, which is about the same as infant daycare is in the beginning. However, daycare expenses steadily drop as your child gets older--nanny expenses go up because of raises. If you don't expect to get paid more in the future, I'd go with daycare. Then, you're just looking at one year of really expensive daycare and then it will start to drop.

Anonymous wrote:Hah... I was literally just texting the wife about this cause I paid our credit card bill for this month.

Thanks for scheduling a payment on Oct 27, 2014, with Online Banking. Here are your payment details:

Payment amount:
$11356.09

Payment date:
Oct 31, 2014

If you see an error with this scheduled payment, just sign in to Online Banking—we’re here to help you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

....

WHERE DOES IT ALL GO !?!

Did you have special expenses this month? Or is this the norm? How many kids do you have? Just asking because our CC bill is about 1000 dollars a month with one child.

OP again, my mortgage is actually more like 30% take home after taxes, maxing retirement, healthcare, and our car payment (I forgot it automatically goes into a separate credit union account). We barely take any deductions, so we'll be getting around 12k back on taxes this year, so this also lowers our take home pay. We have a 3 bedroom house, outside the beltway in NoVa, that is about 30-40 min. to both our jobs. We stretched a bit to be in a good school district because that was really important to us.

I wasn't trying to stir a debate about my housing. I truly just wanted helpful advice/perspective from other families in the area who make it work with a middle class income.

I love the ideas about toys off Craigslist, signing up for a babysitting sharing service, bulking up on diapers when they are on sale, etc. Also, a lot of PPs have pointed out that weekend activities change once you have kids. I imagine we'll be spending more time at home, ordering pizza, going to the park, etc. as opposed to going to concerts and trying new restaurants. In-home daycare might be worth researching for us or perhaps daycare in the burbs will be cheaper than what my friends closer-in pay.

I'm glad to know there are others out there who make things work in order to have kids!

Anonymous wrote:Here's 185 dwellings for sale in Montgomery County for $175k or less. All have at least 2 bedrooms.
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Montgomery-County-MD/pmf,pf_pt/house,condo,apartment,duplex,mobile,townhouse_type/2975_rid/2-_beds/0-175000_price/0-654_mp/days_sort/39.403305,-76.768684,38.876601,-77.661324_rect/10_zm/

.

I know they come up in the Zillow search criteria but if you actually read the listings you will see that many of those properties are rentals. e.g. the first one I see (Mannakee St) is listed as For Sale By Owner for 3 bed/3 bath at $6000. but then the text makes clear that it is a rental listing for $1300. month. The 2nd one is listed at $10,000. but the text makes clear it is a rental for $1500./month. The 3rd is really a sales listing but it is for a Leisure World condo so not an option for young families.

Yes there are lower priced places available but not as many as Zillow says there are.

While they are in day care kids simply aren't that expensive, so if you can cover the care you will be okay. Diapers are ~370/year. Check multiples club sales for clothes, toys, and books. Don't go overboard buying things new that they will only use for a short period of time.

Save as much as you can before you have the kid. You can make it work if it is a priority for you. We tightened up when trying to conceive. 70k in Ivf costs (without knowing if it would end or not) puts other costs/wants into perspective. People with less intellect and income have cared for children for centuries - you can do it, you will figure it out.

You seem set on maintaining a particular lifestyle, one that is very comfortable and frankly is beyond your means if you want to include kids in the mix. You expect a life where you don't have to tighten your belts--on the basis of your education and HHI. You justify the size of your mortgage by emphasizing that it "is well within normal lending standards."

It's too late for you, but how we made it work was having kids before achieving that comfortable lifestyle. We never needed to belt tighten because the belt was already on the last hole. We rented, we couponed, we bought used, we traveled only to see family. All that is fine when you have little kids, because all they want to do anyway is be at home or play at the playground. So for us it wasn't the sacrifice that you see it as.

Now, as our kids are getting older, and our incomes are rising, we are beginning to life that comfortable lifestyle that you are hesitant to give up.

Look if you're maxing out retirement accounts, you're still way ahead of most people. For the Feds, and I am one, we have a pension, something most don't have. I turkey think most of the people posting with 6 figure incomes seem to have brought this upon themselves by purchasing more house than they can afford when daycare is factored in (or student loans). An extra couple of hundred a month is a lot of the lifestyle difference here, as in go nuts and order that Chinese takeout, not the pizza. Something always has to give, for me it is always housing, but I think the standard in this area is for everything else to give first.

As with any "how do you make ends meet in DC" thread - I feel the need to point out that not doing take out, cutting beauty appointments, and putting a hault on shopping only does so much. The biggest ticket items in your budget need to be lower than you otherwise would have them so that you can afford the extra childcare expenses. So, could we with a HHI of 220k afford 3k/month in rent? Sure, if we didn't have to pay childcare on top of that, didn't care about 529 contributions, etc etc etc.

So, we live in places with a monthly rent of <2k, and childcare happens to be cheaper out here - 1400/month for infants and 1000/month for preschool. Limiting take out, manicures, and shopping saves a few hundred a month but if you're coming up 2k a month short, not able to afford childcare, then cooking at home more often isn't going to bridge that gap. You have to make big, substantial cuts in other areas. It may require moving, which I know no one wants to hear, but that's better than stopping your retirement contributions IMO.

Anonymous wrote:We bought a 2 BR townhouse inside the beltway, and then we had twins. Ha! So 2 in daycare and HHI of (gasp!) 110k. We make it work. We live in a school district that people turn their nose up at (FARMS! ESOL!) We don't eat out. We get haircuts at the HairCuttery, and we buy our clothes at Target and Kohls. While people may think whe are "the Poors," I have actually been poor and this ain't it.

For most of us, kids mean sacrifice. If you're not ready for that, wait to have kids.

+1 And it isn't just financial sacrifice. Your body will change its shape after pregnancy, even if you are the same weight- things will be in different places. Your time will be sucked up by the child. You will have to change priorities. Needs come first, once everyone's needs have been met, then wants (hint- career paths are wants). The baby/child's needs come first. It will be 24/7/365/infinity. It isn't like babysitting. It isn't like having a dog. You get what you get and you don't get upset (well, it is okay to get upset a bit, but you need to get over it and move forward). Some babies/children have more needs than others. Be prepared. Vasectomies are one of the best "push" presents around.