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Anonymous wrote:I am 46, dress very well and am still asked if I am the secretary.

If they ask me to take notes in a meeting I ask them if they will get me coffee.

I like this response. Not bold enough to say it. Would you say it to your boss?

Yes. But I am bold. Once, in front of my boss, a coworker cut me off and told me I only deserved 5 minutes of his time. The next meeting I introduced him as "the 5 minute man". He ask for a truce.

Pp, are you an attorney? If not, what line of work are you in?

I find that if women are bold, they are called difficult and bitches.

That is very true in every profession. Not that it ever stopped me.

on the one hand, good for you for sticking up for yourself. on the other, it's going to fuck up your career prospects. have a good ol boys network (somewhat subtle, but it's there) at my firm, and the women who have risen above it let it roll off their back. there are others who make comments like this and generally let the issue really get to them, and they are viewed a certain way by the senior partners. their prospects are basically in the toilet.

Not how you dress. My doctor daughter wears the same white coat as every other doctor. She looks like she's 16.

I am a licensed engineer. I dress appropriately for my field (particularly for meetings). When presenting or kicking off a project, I often get questions about whether or not the engineer will be coming and when will HE get here... I just smile and correct them. It's annoying, but I get a kick out of watching the faces of the older generation (men and women), who just assumed the PE would be a man. and truth be told - 85% of the time, they are right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 46, dress very well and am still asked if I am the secretary.

If they ask me to take notes in a meeting I ask them if they will get me coffee.

I like this response. Not bold enough to say it. Would you say it to your boss?

Yes. But I am bold. Once, in front of my boss, a coworker cut me off and told me I only deserved 5 minutes of his time. The next meeting I introduced him as "the 5 minute man". He ask for a truce.

I really like you!

Anonymous wrote:Is this the same crowd that reports getting abused by random strangers when they nurse in public, too?

It must be! Also the same people who have very advanced children and their friends always ask about it and belittle them for it.

I'm a professor who is often mistaken for a student. Uniform is business casual, so it happens. I'm flattered. I try to always wear my glasses!

I'm also a mother who is mistaken for a nanny during the daytime at playgrounds.

This won't happen in 10 years. So I smile and correct. Then I smile again.

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Anonymous wrote:I worked with a woman who was regularly asked by the same guy if she would copy stuff and send faxes for him, and he always called her by the wrong name. They were both attorneys and they'd been in meetings together. She thought he did it on purpose, but I think he was just crazy.

Most partners didn't bother to learn my name either or called me someone else's name. Some partners just can't be bothered which is kinda sad.

Don't think guys are missing out on all the fun. The male equivalent is thinking they work for IT or the mailroom.

Yes, but very unlikely if they are wearing a suit.

The male equivalent to secretary is IT or the mailroom? Where I work most of the IT folks have advanced degrees, and a large number have an engineering background.
I don't think I would be insulted if someone thought I worked in IT. Oh wait. I do.

A few thoughts:

1. Most legal secretaries at big firms are older because firms are not replacing them/increasing the number of people that share secretaries. The age gap between secretaries and attorneys is noticeable since most associates are younger.

2. At least at my firm the female attorneys are much more sharply dressed than the secretaries. Not necessarily suits but no grandma type sweaters.

It's very easy to distinguish an attorney from a secretary.

Something that I have found that helps, sometimes: make a habit of introducing your colleagues by name and title. I'm in an academic field where there are a number of my older colleagues (50s and 60s) who are people of color (and mostly women) who received PhDs in the 70s and 80s when that was very very unusual. When I first started in this field I found it much more formal than I expected. People would introduce each other: "This is Dr. So-and-so, she is the Director of the Important Center for Important Studies" -- I knew her as my down-to-earth senior colleague "Mary," so it was an eye-opener for me.

Is this the same crowd that reports getting abused by random strangers when they nurse in public, too?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If people think you are the secretary, its because you are not dressing to your job.

It's not like they are assuming EVERY woman is a secretary.

I am the engineer. It happens to all the new women at my work... Or they think you are a technical writer or a trainer.

Anonymous wrote:If people think you are the secretary, its because you are not dressing to your job.

It's not like they are assuming EVERY woman is a secretary.

If people think you are the secretary, its because you are not dressing to your job.

I don't think it's necessarily sexism. Annoying, yes.

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Anonymous wrote:There is a certain cadre of folks, mainly old men, who will think you're the secretary no matter how professional you look or how you act.

Personally, I'm just waiting for them to die out. And looking forward to it.

+1

It's not about how you dress, or act, or your 'presence' in the room. This is sexism at work, plain and simple.

Yes, while dressing can make a difference (and it's a good idea to pay attention to it), the reality is that it's not fair to make women have to spend a lot of energy trying to fit in. It's like black men having to carry the Wall Street Journal in order to allay the fears of white people. Yes, why not do it, if it will help but there's whole categories of people who don't have to think about this and that's an advantage for them.

But nowhere did I say or imply that I wasn't already dressing and acting that way. That you assume I must have been to encounter this means you're part of the problem.

But you do come across as a PITA. And an ungrateful one at that.

Which parts were ungrateful?

You're a lawyer with a job, yes?

You know you have lost an argument when you start telling people to be grateful for stuff that was a given half a generation ago. Also I think you're saying that it's okay to mistreat people when they're expendable, which is so fucked up that I just feel sorry for you.