The fact of the matter is...someone bundled up a bunch of bullshit, put it into a program, called it IB, and sold it to the US. It's a money making scheme just like anything else. Having taught for years in a Middle School with an MYP program, I can tell you it's all crap up to a certain point. Everything we were ever trained on was stuff we were already doing. They just gave it a name and said "hey! That's MYP!" Uh, well, yes...I was doing that for free but now you're paying to label it MYP.

IB is only significant when it comes to high school and they provide higher level classes much like AP. Theoretically you'd get a bunch of kids going for this AMAAAAAZING full IB diploma. But when I left my last school two years ago, the highest number I had ever heard up to that point in regards to how many students graduate with a full IB diploma was 54. No one goes for the full diploma. People in IB schools take IB classes b/c they consider them equivalent to AP. That may very well be but...

If IB classes (outside of the full IB diploma) are identical to AP, then why the hell are we spending money on the IB program when we could just stick with AP?

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it a disadvantage when applying to colleges that an IB student doesn't have test scores to show. The AP kids would have several AP test scores to report with their college applications.

I think I'm convince to avoid those districts.

I think schools understand that students don't control whether their school has IB, AP, neither or both. If you're an IB diploma candidate, you have your GPA, your SAT/ACT scores, your extra-curriculars, and a transcript that shows you're taking a rigorous course load. That's plenty for a school to work with. And I guess you might ask whether it hurts a kid from an AP school if a college that he or she is applying to finds out that he or she did poorly on some AP tests.

The bigger issue probably is not pursuing an IB diploma at an IB school, because some schools may only look at applications from students at IB schools who are doing the full diploma program. AP is not so binary, so it's not as easy to put students in the "no" box.

Isn't it a disadvantage when applying to colleges that an IB student doesn't have test scores to show. The AP kids would have several AP test scores to report with their college applications.

I think I'm convince to avoid those districts.

We are in ACPS and now have an elementary and middle school with an IB program.

They tried for years to turn the school around and failed but raising standards themselves. Now, they just pick a standard for raised standards and viola - they save themselves tons of work and they get to blame something else if it fails.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:04 -- thanks for adding to the details. Taking a 2 yr. class would definitely be a detriment and taking all the tests at the end of senior year (instead of doing some earlier) would also be a negative for the student.

I'm not really that concerned about the cost difference when it comes to making a decision for my kids. I have an opinion about the costs as it applies to the whole school system, but that part doesn't matter when we're looking at schools/houses and trying to decide if IB should be avoided.

I doubt that your hope of scrubbing IB is going to happen since I believe they are pushing the IB middle years program in MSs that feed into the IB HSs.

I think they should put the most popular programs into the least popular HSs. Seems like the low-performing HS have a lot of kids who are ESOL or FARMS and they might not have the verbal skills to succeed in a program like IB -- but maybe they would have a shot at succeeding in an AP class. Seems kind of backwards.

It is mainly about political activism and power. The "popular" schools have the most active parent base and will not allow for an unpopular program to be placed in their school. The IB plan worked for Marshall. I think it worked because there was a minority population in the surrounding "popular" AP schools (McLean, Langley, Madison) that wanted the IB program and were willing to transfer to Marshall to do it and there is an under performing HS (Falls Church) where parents would prefer to send their children to IB to get to go to a higher performing school. It has not worked in other areas of the county because some of the IB programs are clustered together and they do not have the same number of AP schools swapping students. Plus, when the instituted it, I think they thought the IB program would be more popular than it proved to be.

I think one of the reasons that the IB program has not worked as well as the AP programs is that there is definite preference for STEM leaning students to choose AP over IB and we have a very high population of STEM leaning students.

I think IB also works for South Lakes now the same way it works for Marshall, as it's surrounded by AP schools, so the numbers work to its advantage.

The IB program at Robinson is fairly large, but it's also a huge school. My bet is that, if you polled the parents and students and asked which program they preferred, a substantial number would vote in favor of AP.

What's really odd is having five, largely low-income IB schools (Annandale, Edison, Lee, Stuart and Mount Vernon) that are close to one another and can't attract many students from AP schools. At one point, FCPS seems to have thought that having IB at those schools would keep white, middle-income families from leaving, but other factors that influence housing and school choices just appear to play a much larger role. But, as PP noted, rather than focus on what programs would best meet the needs of the current students at those schools, FCPS has decided to double-down and introduce the IB MYP in those pyramids.

Not getting any test results prior to the end of Senior year must put these students at a huge disadvantage compared to their AP peers who've already gotten results, no?

Here's what the IBO says about the testing schedule:

"IB students are expected to take their examinations at the conclusion of the two-year Diploma Programme. However, the IB permits students to take one or two standard level examinations at the end of the first year of the Diploma Programme. The remaining exams are taken at the conclusion of the second year of the Diploma Programme. Higher level exams can only be taken at the end of the second year. In many schools, all examinations are taken in the final year."

To me, it seems like a disadvantage. If you're at an AP school, you know your test results for many courses before you start your senior year of high school. If you wish, that allows you to figure out what credits you may receive at different colleges and universities before you even apply. If you don't find out most of your IB test scores until after you've graduated, you can't engage in that analysis. And, of course, you don't know whether you'll be awarded an IB diploma until after you've graduated, so all the schools that you're applying to will know is that you're an "IB diploma candidate" who is taking a challenging course load.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:04 -- thanks for adding to the details. Taking a 2 yr. class would definitely be a detriment and taking all the tests at the end of senior year (instead of doing some earlier) would also be a negative for the student.

I'm not really that concerned about the cost difference when it comes to making a decision for my kids. I have an opinion about the costs as it applies to the whole school system, but that part doesn't matter when we're looking at schools/houses and trying to decide if IB should be avoided.

I doubt that your hope of scrubbing IB is going to happen since I believe they are pushing the IB middle years program in MSs that feed into the IB HSs.

I think they should put the most popular programs into the least popular HSs. Seems like the low-performing HS have a lot of kids who are ESOL or FARMS and they might not have the verbal skills to succeed in a program like IB -- but maybe they would have a shot at succeeding in an AP class. Seems kind of backwards.

It is mainly about political activism and power. The "popular" schools have the most active parent base and will not allow for an unpopular program to be placed in their school. The IB plan worked for Marshall. I think it worked because there was a minority population in the surrounding "popular" AP schools (McLean, Langley, Madison) that wanted the IB program and were willing to transfer to Marshall to do it and there is an under performing HS (Falls Church) where parents would prefer to send their children to IB to get to go to a higher performing school. It has not worked in other areas of the county because some of the IB programs are clustered together and they do not have the same number of AP schools swapping students. Plus, when the instituted it, I think they thought the IB program would be more popular than it proved to be.

I think one of the reasons that the IB program has not worked as well as the AP programs is that there is definite preference for STEM leaning students to choose AP over IB and we have a very high population of STEM leaning students.

I think IB also works for South Lakes now the same way it works for Marshall, as it's surrounded by AP schools, so the numbers work to its advantage.

The IB program at Robinson is fairly large, but it's also a huge school. My bet is that, if you polled the parents and students and asked which program they preferred, a substantial number would vote in favor of AP.

What's really odd is having five, largely low-income IB schools (Annandale, Edison, Lee, Stuart and Mount Vernon) that are close to one another and can't attract many students from AP schools. At one point, FCPS seems to have thought that having IB at those schools would keep white, middle-income families from leaving, but other factors that influence housing and school choices just appear to play a much larger role. But, as PP noted, rather than focus on what programs would best meet the needs of the current students at those schools, FCPS has decided to double-down and introduce the IB MYP in those pyramids.

Not getting any test results prior to the end of Senior year must put these students at a huge disadvantage compared to their AP peers who've already gotten results, no?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:9:04 -- thanks for adding to the details. Taking a 2 yr. class would definitely be a detriment and taking all the tests at the end of senior year (instead of doing some earlier) would also be a negative for the student.

I'm not really that concerned about the cost difference when it comes to making a decision for my kids. I have an opinion about the costs as it applies to the whole school system, but that part doesn't matter when we're looking at schools/houses and trying to decide if IB should be avoided.

I doubt that your hope of scrubbing IB is going to happen since I believe they are pushing the IB middle years program in MSs that feed into the IB HSs.

I think they should put the most popular programs into the least popular HSs. Seems like the low-performing HS have a lot of kids who are ESOL or FARMS and they might not have the verbal skills to succeed in a program like IB -- but maybe they would have a shot at succeeding in an AP class. Seems kind of backwards.

It is mainly about political activism and power. The "popular" schools have the most active parent base and will not allow for an unpopular program to be placed in their school. The IB plan worked for Marshall. I think it worked because there was a minority population in the surrounding "popular" AP schools (McLean, Langley, Madison) that wanted the IB program and were willing to transfer to Marshall to do it and there is an under performing HS (Falls Church) where parents would prefer to send their children to IB to get to go to a higher performing school. It has not worked in other areas of the county because some of the IB programs are clustered together and they do not have the same number of AP schools swapping students. Plus, when the instituted it, I think they thought the IB program would be more popular than it proved to be.

I think one of the reasons that the IB program has not worked as well as the AP programs is that there is definite preference for STEM leaning students to choose AP over IB and we have a very high population of STEM leaning students.

I think IB also works for South Lakes now the same way it works for Marshall, as it's surrounded by AP schools, so the numbers work to its advantage.

The IB program at Robinson is fairly large, but it's also a huge school. My bet is that, if you polled the parents and students and asked which program they preferred, a substantial number would vote in favor of AP.

What's really odd is having five, largely low-income IB schools (Annandale, Edison, Lee, Stuart and Mount Vernon) that are close to one another and can't attract many students from AP schools. At one point, FCPS seems to have thought that having IB at those schools would keep white, middle-income families from leaving, but other factors that influence housing and school choices just appear to play a much larger role. But, as PP noted, rather than focus on what programs would best meet the needs of the current students at those schools, FCPS has decided to double-down and introduce the IB MYP in those pyramids.

Anonymous wrote:I think one of the reasons that the IB program has not worked as well as the AP programs is that there is definite preference for STEM leaning students to choose AP over IB and we have a very high population of STEM leaning students.

Great point. I agree.

Anonymous wrote:9:04 -- thanks for adding to the details. Taking a 2 yr. class would definitely be a detriment and taking all the tests at the end of senior year (instead of doing some earlier) would also be a negative for the student.

I'm not really that concerned about the cost difference when it comes to making a decision for my kids. I have an opinion about the costs as it applies to the whole school system, but that part doesn't matter when we're looking at schools/houses and trying to decide if IB should be avoided.

I doubt that your hope of scrubbing IB is going to happen since I believe they are pushing the IB middle years program in MSs that feed into the IB HSs.

I think they should put the most popular programs into the least popular HSs. Seems like the low-performing HS have a lot of kids who are ESOL or FARMS and they might not have the verbal skills to succeed in a program like IB -- but maybe they would have a shot at succeeding in an AP class. Seems kind of backwards.

It is mainly about political activism and power. The "popular" schools have the most active parent base and will not allow for an unpopular program to be placed in their school. The IB plan worked for Marshall. I think it worked because there was a minority population in the surrounding "popular" AP schools (McLean, Langley, Madison) that wanted the IB program and were willing to transfer to Marshall to do it and there is an under performing HS (Falls Church) where parents would prefer to send their children to IB to get to go to a higher performing school. It has not worked in other areas of the county because some of the IB programs are clustered together and they do not have the same number of AP schools swapping students. Plus, when the instituted it, I think they thought the IB program would be more popular than it proved to be.

I think one of the reasons that the IB program has not worked as well as the AP programs is that there is definite preference for STEM leaning students to choose AP over IB and we have a very high population of STEM leaning students.

9:04 -- thanks for adding to the details. Taking a 2 yr. class would definitely be a detriment and taking all the tests at the end of senior year (instead of doing some earlier) would also be a negative for the student.

I'm not really that concerned about the cost difference when it comes to making a decision for my kids. I have an opinion about the costs as it applies to the whole school system, but that part doesn't matter when we're looking at schools/houses and trying to decide if IB should be avoided.

I doubt that your hope of scrubbing IB is going to happen since I believe they are pushing the IB middle years program in MSs that feed into the IB HSs.

I think they should put the most popular programs into the least popular HSs. Seems like the low-performing HS have a lot of kids who are ESOL or FARMS and they might not have the verbal skills to succeed in a program like IB -- but maybe they would have a shot at succeeding in an AP class. Seems kind of backwards.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP... Please explain something b/c I must be missing some facts. Let's assume nobody at the IB schools gets the official IB degree. If kids take IB classes and pass the IB test, my understanding is that many/most colleges are giving credit for passing the test. This seems to be the same as AP --- kids get college credit for the classes they take in HS. So, why is IB inferior to AP? Forget about the IB diploma -- from a functional standpoint, kids take a few IB or AP classes, pass the tests, and get college credit.

What am I missing about the way IB works?

You are basically right,but IB is more expensive and any IBO-accredited school has to offer all the courses needed to get a full IB diploma. If students just take a few IB courses on an ad hoc basis, they aren't getting what the IBO considers the full, holistic enchilada and it begs the question as to why the school doesn't just offer AP, which is less expensive, instead. In addition, some IB courses are two-year courses, so students not interested in the full diploma may be reluctant to sign up for them, since it will tie up their schedules.

Finally, you take AP exams at the end of the AP course, so many sophomores and juniors take AP exams. If they do well, it encourages them to take more AP courses. In comparison, IB students take most, if not all, IB exams at the end of their senior year, so they may have less concrete evidence as to how well they'll do on those exams as they are progressing through high school. So it arguably functions best for those who've bought in to the full program from day one and are prepared to make the substantial time commitment.

I'm the OP... Please explain something b/c I must be missing some facts. Let's assume nobody at the IB schools gets the official IB degree. If kids take IB classes and pass the IB test, my understanding is that many/most colleges are giving credit for passing the test. This seems to be the same as AP --- kids get college credit for the classes they take in HS. So, why is IB inferior to AP? Forget about the IB diploma -- from a functional standpoint, kids take a few IB or AP classes, pass the tests, and get college credit.

What am I missing about the way IB works?

Anonymous wrote:The writing that is required in IB prepares the students for college much better than AP, which rally is nothing mOre than being able to pass the test. In the end, the question is not about whether AP or IB are "accepted'" but whether they prepare the student. I bet we cou,d get rid of both programs, institute a generally rigorous program and prepare students just as well, oh... And bring back shop.

If that were the case, you'd see IB in the higher-ranked, more affluent schools where more students are headed off to college and more interested in acquiring skills than credits. Instead, none of the six high schools in FCPS with the highest SAT scores (TJ, Langley, McLean, Oakton, Woodson, Madison) has IB.

Either way, it doesn't add up. Either IB is in the wrong schools in FCPS or it's no better (and perhaps worse) in terms of preparing kids for college.

Anonymous wrote:The writing that is required in IB prepares the students for college much better than AP

This is your opinion. It is not fact.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/editorialize

ed·i·to·ri·al·ize verb \?e-d?-?to?r-?-?-?l?z\
ed·i·to·ri·al·izeded·i·to·ri·al·iz·ing
Definition of EDITORIALIZE

intransitive verb
1
: to express an opinion in the form of an editorial
2
: to introduce opinion into the reporting of facts
3
: to express an opinion (as on a controversial issue)
— ed·i·to·ri·al·i·za·tion noun
— ed·i·to·ri·al·iz·er noun
Examples of EDITORIALIZE

<she never misses a chance to editorialize on the issues of the day—even the ones she knows nothing about>

The writing that is required in IB prepares the students for college much better than AP, which rally is nothing mOre than being able to pass the test. In the end, the question is not about whether AP or IB are "accepted'" but whether they prepare the student. I bet we cou,d get rid of both programs, institute a generally rigorous program and prepare students just as well, oh... And bring back shop.