Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the ruiner of dreams.

So many parents I know think their dc has a chance to be a professional in whatever sport the kid is interested in. The number of deluded adults I know is amazing. They don't realize the staggering odds against their dc making it on anything beyond a high school team. I've seen parents discuss this at sporting events and saw one mom cry and a dad walk away enraged when a group was discussing how unlikely any of us would know a kid who made it in professional baseball or football.

Forget tennis. If your kid isn't playing competitive tournaments by 9 or 10 you are sol. Even then the probability of your child doing anything other than making a high school team is so so small.

In the burbs here, it is not unusual for parents to pay for private coaching for little league.

While there are plenty of deluded parents who think their kid will go pro or get a college scholarship there are plenty of parents who pay because their kid likes the sport. My second grade son plays travel soccer, we pay for soccer camps, clinics, indoor soccer, and he gets private training once a week. I am 100% certain he will never be a pro soccer player and most likely won't get a college scholarship. However, he loves to play, we love to watch him, and there is something to be said for being the best in your grade/cohort/team in something. My son is respected at school in the afterschool program by the older boys because he is such a good soccer player. He is the only younger boy the older boys let play soccer with them. At recess everyone wants him on their team. He can by far kick the ball the farthest and hardest and can juke kids. He tends to be a shy kid who wouldn't get noticed otherwise. It helps him feel good about himself and make friends. So even if he only plays high school soccer the money will be worth it.

I could have written this post about DC went from an awkward 2nd and 3rd grader bad at sports to first pick at pickup basketball games who is respected by other kids on the school team and his travel team. If he could play in HS he would be delighted, and even if he doesn't the work ethic he has learned will serve him well his whole life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing is more expensive than horses. Not even close.

Sailing.

Actually, sailing is cheaper than horses, at least at the level that teenagers do it. At America's Cup level, yes, sailing is more expensive. A laser is not cheap, but it's not as expensive as a competition-level horse. The problem with riding is that having a really good horse is essential (unlike most sports where talent can overcome the quality of the gear), and you are competing with people with serious money. Town and Country did a story a couple of years ago about young women riders, and most of them were the daughters of billionaires. The "poorest" young woman was the daughter of Bruce Springsteen.

Sailing camps and lessons aren't expensive. Owning a sailboat is expensive. There is always something that needs to be fixed or replaced. Slip fees can be costly. Sailing the boat is cheap. We take off on a Friday afternoon, sail for a while, find a marina or just drop anchor, and enjoy a beautiful night on the water. Sadly, our kids don't like it as much as we do.

I was pp, and we have owned cruising sailboats and are well aware of the constant maintenance hassle (the person who said sailing is like "standing in a cold shower tearing up $100 bills" was correct). Since the topic was youth activities, I was commenting on competitive youth sailing, which generally involves small "one design" boats. The cost of owning and maintaining a boat grows geometrically with the size of the boat. A twenty foot daysailer isn't cheap, but it's usually stored on the hard, and maintenance costs are (relatively) minor, as you can mostly handle them yourself. A wise old sailor who raised his kids on boats once advised us to switch to smaller boats while the kids were young, and he was right. Kids seem to find sailing about on small boats much more fun than cruising in a big sailboat. We sail a small boat, and we have friends who are in to horses, and there's no comparison of the cost. In any case, if we bought a big sailboat, we'd at least have a place to stay over the weekend (you can't do that with a horse!).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing is more expensive than horses. Not even close.

Sailing.

Actually, sailing is cheaper than horses, at least at the level that teenagers do it. At America's Cup level, yes, sailing is more expensive. A laser is not cheap, but it's not as expensive as a competition-level horse. The problem with riding is that having a really good horse is essential (unlike most sports where talent can overcome the quality of the gear), and you are competing with people with serious money. Town and Country did a story a couple of years ago about young women riders, and most of them were the daughters of billionaires. The "poorest" young woman was the daughter of Bruce Springsteen.

Sailing camps and lessons aren't expensive. Owning a sailboat is expensive. There is always something that needs to be fixed or replaced. Slip fees can be costly. Sailing the boat is cheap. We take off on a Friday afternoon, sail for a while, find a marina or just drop anchor, and enjoy a beautiful night on the water. Sadly, our kids don't like it as much as we do.

Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is the rationale I've heard about things like college scholarships for equestrians. I know a smart, successful mom who insists the barn fees, lessons, competitions, travel, costumes, lodging (they even bought a pop up camper saying it would help them "save" on hotels), and ultimately the purchase of an expensive show horse but think the end is worth it because maybe her child will get a college scholarship.

I agree, but its obviously important to her. I hear that argument so much in terms of holding our child back a year for K. I don't get it and we choose a prepaid college fund instead. College, if able, is not an option in our home.

Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is the rationale I've heard about things like college scholarships for equestrians. I know a smart, successful mom who insists the barn fees, lessons, competitions, travel, costumes, lodging (they even bought a pop up camper saying it would help them "save" on hotels), and ultimately the purchase of an expensive show horse but think the end is worth it because maybe her child will get a college scholarship.

To be honest, those that I know do it because (a) the daughter is crazy about horses (but what twelve year old isn't); AND (perhaps more importantly), the mother likes hanging out on the horse "scene."

What I don't understand is the rationale I've heard about things like college scholarships for equestrians. I know a smart, successful mom who insists the barn fees, lessons, competitions, travel, costumes, lodging (they even bought a pop up camper saying it would help them "save" on hotels), and ultimately the purchase of an expensive show horse but think the end is worth it because maybe her child will get a college scholarship.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing is more expensive than horses. Not even close.

Sailing.

Actually, sailing is cheaper than horses, at least at the level that teenagers do it. At America's Cup level, yes, sailing is more expensive. A laser is not cheap, but it's not as expensive as a competition-level horse. The problem with riding is that having a really good horse is essential (unlike most sports where talent can overcome the quality of the gear), and you are competing with people with serious money. Town and Country did a story a couple of years ago about young women riders, and most of them were the daughters of billionaires. The "poorest" young woman was the daughter of Bruce Springsteen.

Anonymous wrote:I do not consider children's activities a "money pit". This is gift to your children that hopefully they will retain for the rest of their lives. I still remember the Steven Foster songs I learned on the piccolo. Not glamorous like the piano but I remember the music camps and over night travels with the marching band. It only becomes a money pit if the child is not benefiting from the activity. But participating, even in so-so classes, there are lessons to be learned... how to interact with others, team building especially for girls. This the is time to try everything, because they probably will not have the time when they are grown.

And back on planet earth people have to allocate their money. I guarantee they'd much rather play on an inexpensive rec team and graduate college debt free. Great for you if you have the luxury to do both.

I do not consider children's activities a "money pit". This is gift to your children that hopefully they will retain for the rest of their lives. I still remember the Steven Foster songs I learned on the piccolo. Not glamorous like the piano but I remember the music camps and over night travels with the marching band. It only becomes a money pit if the child is not benefiting from the activity. But participating, even in so-so classes, there are lessons to be learned... how to interact with others, team building especially for girls. This the is time to try everything, because they probably will not have the time when they are grown.

Anonymous wrote:I am the ruiner of dreams.

So many parents I know think their dc has a chance to be a professional in whatever sport the kid is interested in. The number of deluded adults I know is amazing. They don't realize the staggering odds against their dc making it on anything beyond a high school team. I've seen parents discuss this at sporting events and saw one mom cry and a dad walk away enraged when a group was discussing how unlikely any of us would know a kid who made it in professional baseball or football.

Forget tennis. If your kid isn't playing competitive tournaments by 9 or 10 you are sol. Even then the probability of your child doing anything other than making a high school team is so so small.

In the burbs here, it is not unusual for parents to pay for private coaching for little league.

While there are plenty of deluded parents who think their kid will go pro or get a college scholarship there are plenty of parents who pay because their kid likes the sport. My second grade son plays travel soccer, we pay for soccer camps, clinics, indoor soccer, and he gets private training once a week. I am 100% certain he will never be a pro soccer player and most likely won't get a college scholarship. However, he loves to play, we love to watch him, and there is something to be said for being the best in your grade/cohort/team in something. My son is respected at school in the afterschool program by the older boys because he is such a good soccer player. He is the only younger boy the older boys let play soccer with them. At recess everyone wants him on their team. He can by far kick the ball the farthest and hardest and can juke kids. He tends to be a shy kid who wouldn't get noticed otherwise. It helps him feel good about himself and make friends. So even if he only plays high school soccer the money will be worth it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^Couldn't you say that about any activity? Let's say you pay $20K in lessons for a kid to learn to play the piano, and the kid doesn't become a professional, but likes likes music, plays socially, and has a nice time. I would not think that was a waste of money.

I don't think most parents are trying to get professional athletes, singers, etc. There is certainly no money to be earned in some of the most expensive activities like horseback riding, ice skating, or martial arts.

I have my kids in tennis lessons because I think they will have a nice time and will learn a game they might enjoy through life. My kids play some local tournaments and mostly hangout with friends. I won't pay to travel to tournaments. But I don't spend more than my neighbors who's kids play hokey or travel sports.

Overall, any activity is going to be a "money pit" once you try to take it to the Nth degree (additional lessons/coaching, travelling to competitions, upgraded equipment, etc.).

Yep- I have to agree with you here. I spend $3K+ annually on piano lessons and pianos aren't cheap. I don't have any expectation that my son will be a "professional" here- I would actually discourage it due to lifestyle/finances but I get enjoyment everyday listening to him play and I believe it is a great stress reliever. He's doing really well and we will probably spend more money on it as he gets older- but I'm not delusional- it's an expense and I'm just glad that we can afford it. However my son practices quite a bit everyday, if he didn't practice, it would totally be a waste a money.

I could have written this previous post. DS has played piano for 7 years and is very good but will never win any ribbons or competitions. However, he enjoys it (not passionate about it but is happy to sit down for practice everyday), I get to listen to half an hour of beautiful music everyday and I think it is also therapeutic after school. So, we happily spend close to $3K a year on it. Also, I hope it will foster a love of music and it is something he can do for the rest of his life unlike gymnastics for example. We also pay around $1000 a year for tennis lessons (for the six months he does not do rec. soccer). Tennis is a sport he can enjoy and play for decades and rec. soccer is fun and a team sport. My aim is to have him get regular exercise and develop interests he can continue pursuing beyond high school. He is a very serious academic student and I don't want to add stress by having him pursue any of these EC activities in a very competitive way. He might be able to do this with piano if he practiced a couple of hours a day for example but that's not what I want for him. I would like his hobbies to be just that. Now, if he was a gifted athlete, I would have a much harder decision to make.

Anonymous wrote:

This is spot on. My poor parents paid thousands of dollars on tennis lessons for my sister and me, and we both only played on our high school team. I will NOT fall into this trap with my kids!

I certainly wouldn't pay it if I couldn't afford it, but if I can afford it - why not? It's a great hobby - it keeps my child occupied, gives him good exercise, a point of pride, provides incentive for doing well in school, etc. It's the money that helps raise a well-rounded, happy kid. Surely, that's worth something?

Anonymous wrote:Dance need not be expensive. You want to find a place where your money goes to quality instruction, not tacky costumes and weekend "competitions."

There are plenty of quality martial arts dojos that are like this, too. Kids work hard, test maybe every 6 months (if they're improving quickly) and get good instruction.

Anonymous wrote:^^^Couldn't you say that about any activity? Let's say you pay $20K in lessons for a kid to learn to play the piano, and the kid doesn't become a professional, but likes likes music, plays socially, and has a nice time. I would not think that was a waste of money.

I don't think most parents are trying to get professional athletes, singers, etc. There is certainly no money to be earned in some of the most expensive activities like horseback riding, ice skating, or martial arts.

I have my kids in tennis lessons because I think they will have a nice time and will learn a game they might enjoy through life. My kids play some local tournaments and mostly hangout with friends. I won't pay to travel to tournaments. But I don't spend more than my neighbors who's kids play hokey or travel sports.

Overall, any activity is going to be a "money pit" once you try to take it to the Nth degree (additional lessons/coaching, travelling to competitions, upgraded equipment, etc.).

Yep- I have to agree with you here. I spend $3K+ annually on piano lessons and pianos aren't cheap. I don't have any expectation that my son will be a "professional" here- I would actually discourage it due to lifestyle/finances but I get enjoyment everyday listening to him play and I believe it is a great stress reliever. He's doing really well and we will probably spend more money on it as he gets older- but I'm not delusional- it's an expense and I'm just glad that we can afford it. However my son practices quite a bit everyday, if he didn't practice, it would totally be a waste a money.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The question is, what long-lasting positive effect do you get for the money?

I hate the factory aspect of martial arts in this area.

Maryland Youth Ballet is good - uniforms are not expensive and the teaching is professional.

I am willing to pay for good music lessons - $45 for 30 minutes at many reputable studios in the area.

As for horseback riding, I assume owning the horse is naturally expensive.

It's not just this area. I'm from CA, and the studios there are like that, too. It's just a factory, but hey, the kids feel like they are accomplishing something, right? Bleh. Thank goodness my DC quit after a year.

I pay $45 for private in-home piano lesson. Worth every penny. DCs are enjoying learning to play.

Not all martial arts schools are belt factories. The one my kids attend actually requires the kids to master the skills before they can earn the next belt. My kids are testing this week, and two boys who tested last night did not pass. It's not terribly expensive in the scheme of things and it's been great for their self-discipline and attitude. My two boys go their TKD school for aftercare and class 3x a week for under $500 a month.

My older DS plays ice hockey and that IS expensive. Expensive equipment (that they outgrow annually), expensive club fees, crazy hours due to limited ice time. It's rough.