Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 07:30     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:Btw "Indian" is frequently used by native americans to describe themselves.


And the n word is used by blacks to describe themselves, but that doesn't make it less vulgar
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 07:29     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:op, please think this through. If your kids have no real cultural affiliation to a tribe, this could backfire badly. What is going to happen when they show up and are invited to join a cultural group and other people realize what they have done? Also, if the admissions committee figures out your game, it may very well hurt your chances of admission. And if they think you are lying, word might get around to other schools.

If you have no real connection to a tribe, please don't do this. It is offensive and will be seen as such if it is ever revealed.


This is a silly scare tactic. Students are inundated with club opportunities. If invited and not comfortable, don't join No one is going to "check you out" like a Gestapo agent confirming ethnicity.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 07:17     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Btw "Indian" is frequently used by native americans to describe themselves.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 07:13     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
op, please think this through. If your kids have no real cultural affiliation to a tribe, this could backfire badly. What is going to happen when they show up and are invited to join a cultural group and other people realize what they have done? Also, if the admissions committee figures out your game, it may very well hurt your chances of admission. And if they think you are lying, word might get around to other schools.

If you have no real connection to a tribe, please don't do this. It is offensive and will be seen as such if it is ever revealed.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 06:37     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In the Midwest it is not at all unusual to find families that there are many families that obscured Native American heritage in the family history. Some families would, for example, claim “Black Irish” ancestry to account for dark hair and eyes. I knew people that looked entirely European, but held a Cherokee Nation registration card "1/128 degree Cherokee blood."

I’m not surprised that someone with Native American ancestry might wish to continue to obscure that heritage in an area like the DMV where most people see nothing wrong with using a Native American slur as the nickname of the most popular sports team and there is very little support for Native Americans. I’d be surprised if any local high schools had Native American support groups.
All this is to say that I don’t think you should be ashamed of “coming out of the closet” so to speak about your children’s ethnicity. The past (present?) need to obscure Native American ancestry is a manifestation of past discrimination. Your children likely offer a perspective that colleges would value. Indeed, they might consider a college essay on the topic of what it is like to hide their ethnicity. I had a friend whose mixed-race child wrote a compelling essay on what it was like to have a white mother when the child was very dark skinned.
No I think the problem is that having American Indian heritage is actually considered rather cool so I'm more wary of white folks who claim it when it's actually a very small part of their entire ethnic heritage. (Here's looking at you, Elizabeth Warren!) Having a distant ancestor who was Native American is not the same experience as someone who grew up in an Indian family.

Watch 'South Park' -
DMVers are clueless when it comes to Native Americans.

'Hail to the Washington Red-----' http://theverge.com/e/6607048 via @verge




Anonymous
Post 09/26/2014 06:34     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the many encouraging responses.

To the "visible minority" poster, do you realize that term is a Canadian construct that is considered racist by the United Nations?

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=f469b36e-c587-40e7-98e5-3aa50a371318&k=23802&__federated=1


VREG is a term used by researchers of color in the field of multicultural counseling. I think it was first used by a black American psychologist in discussing stages of black identity development.


I'm sure pp used VREG in an innocent non-racist intent way, just as many continue to us the problematic "African American" instead of black.

However, as noted in the linked article Canada's Employment Equity Act defines "visible minorities" as "persons, other than aboriginal people, who are non-Caucasian in race or non-white in colour."

To the United Nations committee, highlighting a certain group does not appear to be consistent with Article One of the convention, which says racial discrimination occurs when equitable treatment is upset by "any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin."

Speaking at the committee grilling of Canada last month, committee member Patrick Thornberry went further.

"The use of the term seemed to somehow indicate that 'whiteness' was the standard, all others differing from that being visible," says the British international law professor, according to UN note-takers.

Anonymous
Post 09/25/2014 12:20     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Some tribal memberships provide scholarships, and the number is required by the university in order to access the scholarship funds.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2014 08:08     Subject: Re:At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is there a box for "Irish"? Don't think so. If your kids' great great grandfather was the last Cherokee Indian in the bloodline, do you think your kid should have an admissions advantage?


If I can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Cherokee Nation that my kids are direct descendants of an enrolled member (so that they can be enrolled, too), why shouldn't they get "credit" for that in admissions, if the college considers tribal enrollment (not evidence of personal connection) a factor?


Box-checking on college applications fails to recognize the multifaceted nature of multiracial identity. Multiracial people may view themselves differently than others see them. There is no need for "cultural performance" to prove racial identity. Honesty is the essential starting point. After that, the best advice is to check the box that gives the greatest admissions advantage:

http://www.deloggio.com/diversty/race.html

Some just calling like they see it -- and I wouldn't quibble with this point of view. But dispense with the "just answer honestly" when you're referring to a kid's generations-ago and previously barely identified and sometimes ignored "heritage". Like, not being a particular URM for 17 years and then "just being honest" or rediscovering your roots when you fill out a college app. Come on.

Anonymous
Post 09/25/2014 07:58     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I work in a position where I have to determine URM status, and American Indian/Native American is harder than most to claim, as you typically have to have tribal affiliation. Other URM categories use self-identification as the standard. The affiliation on the SAT scores won't matter, the college will use the information provided on the application.

So great when those in a position to know post.


So, if one checks off Native Anerican, Tribal verification could be required? That's unclear; there could be one without the other, I suppose ,given the different standards.


PP here. It depends on the institution and the person reviewing the application. Typically when you check the box nobody will ask for verification, though the instructions generally state tribal affiliation or community attachment is required. Some of our reviewers take a dim view of those people who obviously identify as white and try to claim American Indian/Native American status. Those reviewers sometimes ask to see proof of tribal affiliation or community attachment, which is typically a copy of their tribal membership card.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2014 07:28     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:At DD's large public, the generally accepted position among the kids is that you can claim minority status if you have one grandparent (1/4) in that minority. Anything more removed than that and other kids will roll their eyes at you (but they may not know whether you checked the box).

We know some white-looking kids with 1/8 minority status, but very ambitious parents who made them join minority groups at school to establish the track record another PP refers to. I feel sorry for the kids, because I can only imagine how the other kids in these minority student groups reacted to this.


I am confused. I thought that affirmative action does not confer an admissions advantage to those who claim it? Rather, it just ensures diversity in the classroom. Why, then, would "ambitious" parents be acting so cynically?

Really? And what do you think is the difference?


Can there be diversity without preferences? If not, why not?


Not if you apply the same academic standards.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2014 07:26     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I work in a position where I have to determine URM status, and American Indian/Native American is harder than most to claim, as you typically have to have tribal affiliation. Other URM categories use self-identification as the standard. The affiliation on the SAT scores won't matter, the college will use the information provided on the application.

So great when those in a position to know post.


So, if one checks off Native Anerican, Tribal verification could be required? That's unclear; there could be one without the other, I suppose ,given the different standards.


My understanding is that if you check off Native American on the application it will then ask for a tribal number. If you are truly Native American and belong to the category then you have gone through the process to identify with a particular tribe and have received an actual tribal number. As the PP indicated, other URM categories are self-identified and do not require any additional information.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2014 07:20     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:At DD's large public, the generally accepted position among the kids is that you can claim minority status if you have one grandparent (1/4) in that minority. Anything more removed than that and other kids will roll their eyes at you (but they may not know whether you checked the box).

We know some white-looking kids with 1/8 minority status, but very ambitious parents who made them join minority groups at school to establish the track record another PP refers to. I feel sorry for the kids, because I can only imagine how the other kids in these minority student groups reacted to this.


I am confused. I thought that affirmative action does not confer an admissions advantage to those who claim it? Rather, it just ensures diversity in the classroom. Why, then, would "ambitious" parents be acting so cynically?

Really? And what do you think is the difference?


Can there be diversity without preferences? If not, why not?
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2014 07:18     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I work in a position where I have to determine URM status, and American Indian/Native American is harder than most to claim, as you typically have to have tribal affiliation. Other URM categories use self-identification as the standard. The affiliation on the SAT scores won't matter, the college will use the information provided on the application.

So great when those in a position to know post.


So, if one checks off Native Anerican, Tribal verification could be required? That's unclear; there could be one without the other, I suppose ,given the different standards.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2014 07:13     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:At DD's large public, the generally accepted position among the kids is that you can claim minority status if you have one grandparent (1/4) in that minority. Anything more removed than that and other kids will roll their eyes at you (but they may not know whether you checked the box).

We know some white-looking kids with 1/8 minority status, but very ambitious parents who made them join minority groups at school to establish the track record another PP refers to. I feel sorry for the kids, because I can only imagine how the other kids in these minority student groups reacted to this.


I am confused. I thought that affirmative action does not confer an admissions advantage to those who claim it? Rather, it just ensures diversity in the classroom. Why, then, would "ambitious" parents be acting so cynically?

Really? And what do you think is the difference?
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2014 07:12     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the many encouraging responses.

To the "visible minority" poster, do you realize that term is a Canadian construct that is considered racist by the United Nations?

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=f469b36e-c587-40e7-98e5-3aa50a371318&k=23802&__federated=1


VREG is a term used by researchers of color in the field of multicultural counseling. I think it was first used by a black American psychologist in discussing stages of black identity development.