Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 13:50     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
My wife took a trip to Europe for a week when the kids were pretty young. The kids & I did fine, I maintained the house well enough. This did wonders for her ability and willingness to just relax, back off and, if I was going to be the one doing something, letting me do it my own way.

I never minded hard work. But micromanagement turned me passive aggressive.


Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 12:54     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seasoned wife and mother here.

Young mothers tend to be control freaks - not a bad thing per se, but attending to the needs of a young brood tends to bring that out in some people.

The advice that I will give a lot of you probably will not register for a few years, but here goes. If you want to have a good relationship with your DH and just a peaceful marriage, a lot of you need to learn to delegate properly. My marriage is not perfect but this is a skill that I learned after a few years. DH is pretty active with household stuff anyways, but if I ask him (not tell) him to do something, I do not tell him HOW to get the task done and if the task is done within reason, I do not critique it. Now if he really screws it up (which is rare) I mention it to him, but not in a negative confrontational posture. One example is that my DH uses the dishwasher and I prefer to hand-wash. Thus, I know that if I need him to cover the dishes, he is going to do it his way. And if I want it done MY way, I should be prepared to do it myself. I am just not sure it is constructive for a person or a marriage to micromanage to that degree.

Many of you are in the "pre-martyr" stage where you insist your DH is an idiot and that is why you have to do everything.


I grew up as the child in the kind of relationship OP has. My Mom says exactly the kind of hostile things OP's DW said about failure to clean up. My Dad is like OP. I am now the mother of 2 kids with a now exDH like OP is now. While I agree with you, PP, in some ways about how the female acts in this dynamic, I really think men have to take responsibility. I have lost a lot of respect for my Dad, whom I love dearly. His expectation that it is the role of someone else in the house to either live in a pigsty or clean up after him is really disrespectful. My Dad's inability to take responsibility for himself at this level, sent a very damaging message to me about what I can expect men in my life to do. Because of that, I married someone who is not capable or does not wish to be capable of handling the personal/administrative side of life. I divorced him, in part, because having an adult child was not how I thought I should live the rest of my life (and for many, many other even stronger reasons, but the "man child" part alone was enough). I am raising my son to be able to take care of himself and his household.

My Mom played a reactive role in this, and the hostility she developed as a result is saddening. While it's true that my Mom developed the "martyr" pose, by PP's definition, with my father's complete lack of ability to do even the most basic tasks, she was left to take on the whole of the domestic sphere of their life. That is a gross unfairness and was the cause of the growth of my Mom's bitterness. He has profited immensely from her unpaid work and time.



Interestingly enough, my parents had a slightly different dynamic. My father was perfectly willing to help at first. However, my mother would criticize him simply because he did things a different way. Eventually the constant criticism caused him to not even try anymore. Of course, my mother seized on that to claim that he never did anything and that she had to do it all. When they divorced, my father proved more than capable of running a household. When I first married, I was my mother. Constanly insisting that things be my way in the household realm. We were always bickering. Where I started to evolve is that I was in the hospital for a few weeks and DH was in charge. Lo and behold, the trains STILL ran on time. And I was causing myself so much stress about HOW things were getting done and not that they were getting done. But I agree wiith you, you do have to have a partner sho is somewhat willing and competent.


Early in my marriage, DW accused me of doing a simple household job "incorrectly" so that she'd have to do it from then on. I grew up without a father, so cooking and cleaning were a part of my life from a very early age. I wasn't mad that she didn't like the way I did dishes, but that she would even think that I was conniving enough to manipulate her into more work really damaged our relationship. Especially considering my self-sufficient childhood. The things people say to each other...just awful.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 11:54     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seasoned wife and mother here.

Young mothers tend to be control freaks - not a bad thing per se, but attending to the needs of a young brood tends to bring that out in some people.

The advice that I will give a lot of you probably will not register for a few years, but here goes. If you want to have a good relationship with your DH and just a peaceful marriage, a lot of you need to learn to delegate properly. My marriage is not perfect but this is a skill that I learned after a few years. DH is pretty active with household stuff anyways, but if I ask him (not tell) him to do something, I do not tell him HOW to get the task done and if the task is done within reason, I do not critique it. Now if he really screws it up (which is rare) I mention it to him, but not in a negative confrontational posture. One example is that my DH uses the dishwasher and I prefer to hand-wash. Thus, I know that if I need him to cover the dishes, he is going to do it his way. And if I want it done MY way, I should be prepared to do it myself. I am just not sure it is constructive for a person or a marriage to micromanage to that degree.

Many of you are in the "pre-martyr" stage where you insist your DH is an idiot and that is why you have to do everything.


I grew up as the child in the kind of relationship OP has. My Mom says exactly the kind of hostile things OP's DW said about failure to clean up. My Dad is like OP. I am now the mother of 2 kids with a now exDH like OP is now. While I agree with you, PP, in some ways about how the female acts in this dynamic, I really think men have to take responsibility. I have lost a lot of respect for my Dad, whom I love dearly. His expectation that it is the role of someone else in the house to either live in a pigsty or clean up after him is really disrespectful. My Dad's inability to take responsibility for himself at this level, sent a very damaging message to me about what I can expect men in my life to do. Because of that, I married someone who is not capable or does not wish to be capable of handling the personal/administrative side of life. I divorced him, in part, because having an adult child was not how I thought I should live the rest of my life (and for many, many other even stronger reasons, but the "man child" part alone was enough). I am raising my son to be able to take care of himself and his household.

My Mom played a reactive role in this, and the hostility she developed as a result is saddening. While it's true that my Mom developed the "martyr" pose, by PP's definition, with my father's complete lack of ability to do even the most basic tasks, she was left to take on the whole of the domestic sphere of their life. That is a gross unfairness and was the cause of the growth of my Mom's bitterness. He has profited immensely from her unpaid work and time.



Interestingly enough, my parents had a slightly different dynamic. My father was perfectly willing to help at first. However, my mother would criticize him simply because he did things a different way. Eventually the constant criticism caused him to not even try anymore. Of course, my mother seized on that to claim that he never did anything and that she had to do it all. When they divorced, my father proved more than capable of running a household. When I first married, I was my mother. Constanly insisting that things be my way in the household realm. We were always bickering. Where I started to evolve is that I was in the hospital for a few weeks and DH was in charge. Lo and behold, the trains STILL ran on time. And I was causing myself so much stress about HOW things were getting done and not that they were getting done. But I agree wiith you, you do have to have a partner sho is somewhat willing and competent.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 11:45     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Seasoned wife and mother here.

Young mothers tend to be control freaks - not a bad thing per se, but attending to the needs of a young brood tends to bring that out in some people.

The advice that I will give a lot of you probably will not register for a few years, but here goes. If you want to have a good relationship with your DH and just a peaceful marriage, a lot of you need to learn to delegate properly. My marriage is not perfect but this is a skill that I learned after a few years. DH is pretty active with household stuff anyways, but if I ask him (not tell) him to do something, I do not tell him HOW to get the task done and if the task is done within reason, I do not critique it. Now if he really screws it up (which is rare) I mention it to him, but not in a negative confrontational posture. One example is that my DH uses the dishwasher and I prefer to hand-wash. Thus, I know that if I need him to cover the dishes, he is going to do it his way. And if I want it done MY way, I should be prepared to do it myself. I am just not sure it is constructive for a person or a marriage to micromanage to that degree.

Many of you are in the "pre-martyr" stage where you insist your DH is an idiot and that is why you have to do everything.


So what is your take on the popcorn clean-up at issue?


PP here. Honestly, is is understood in our house that if we decide to do chores like this a certain way, no one will question it. I do not automatically someone as lazy or imcompetent because they do things differently. And my DH is not either of those. But it is also understood that you deal with the consequences of your decisions. Thus, if the popcorn does attract critters or whatever, DH would be responsible for taking care of it. As long as that is understood, I am not going to lose much sleep over his decision.

Also, because someone else brought it up, the "choking" aspect of it is a red herring to me. If the DW thought it was ok for the kids to play with popcorn, it is a stretch to say it is a choking hazard now.

Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 11:27     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
Anonymous wrote:Seasoned wife and mother here.

Young mothers tend to be control freaks - not a bad thing per se, but attending to the needs of a young brood tends to bring that out in some people.

The advice that I will give a lot of you probably will not register for a few years, but here goes. If you want to have a good relationship with your DH and just a peaceful marriage, a lot of you need to learn to delegate properly. My marriage is not perfect but this is a skill that I learned after a few years. DH is pretty active with household stuff anyways, but if I ask him (not tell) him to do something, I do not tell him HOW to get the task done and if the task is done within reason, I do not critique it. Now if he really screws it up (which is rare) I mention it to him, but not in a negative confrontational posture. One example is that my DH uses the dishwasher and I prefer to hand-wash. Thus, I know that if I need him to cover the dishes, he is going to do it his way. And if I want it done MY way, I should be prepared to do it myself. I am just not sure it is constructive for a person or a marriage to micromanage to that degree.

Many of you are in the "pre-martyr" stage where you insist your DH is an idiot and that is why you have to do everything.


I grew up as the child in the kind of relationship OP has. My Mom says exactly the kind of hostile things OP's DW said about failure to clean up. My Dad is like OP. I am now the mother of 2 kids with a now exDH like OP is now. While I agree with you, PP, in some ways about how the female acts in this dynamic, I really think men have to take responsibility. I have lost a lot of respect for my Dad, whom I love dearly. His expectation that it is the role of someone else in the house to either live in a pigsty or clean up after him is really disrespectful. My Dad's inability to take responsibility for himself at this level, sent a very damaging message to me about what I can expect men in my life to do. Because of that, I married someone who is not capable or does not wish to be capable of handling the personal/administrative side of life. I divorced him, in part, because having an adult child was not how I thought I should live the rest of my life (and for many, many other even stronger reasons, but the "man child" part alone was enough). I am raising my son to be able to take care of himself and his household.

My Mom played a reactive role in this, and the hostility she developed as a result is saddening. While it's true that my Mom developed the "martyr" pose, by PP's definition, with my father's complete lack of ability to do even the most basic tasks, she was left to take on the whole of the domestic sphere of their life. That is a gross unfairness and was the cause of the growth of my Mom's bitterness. He has profited immensely from her unpaid work and time.

Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 10:51     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
Anonymous wrote:Seasoned wife and mother here.

Young mothers tend to be control freaks - not a bad thing per se, but attending to the needs of a young brood tends to bring that out in some people.

The advice that I will give a lot of you probably will not register for a few years, but here goes. If you want to have a good relationship with your DH and just a peaceful marriage, a lot of you need to learn to delegate properly. My marriage is not perfect but this is a skill that I learned after a few years. DH is pretty active with household stuff anyways, but if I ask him (not tell) him to do something, I do not tell him HOW to get the task done and if the task is done within reason, I do not critique it. Now if he really screws it up (which is rare) I mention it to him, but not in a negative confrontational posture. One example is that my DH uses the dishwasher and I prefer to hand-wash. Thus, I know that if I need him to cover the dishes, he is going to do it his way. And if I want it done MY way, I should be prepared to do it myself. I am just not sure it is constructive for a person or a marriage to micromanage to that degree.

Many of you are in the "pre-martyr" stage where you insist your DH is an idiot and that is why you have to do everything.


This lesson took me years to learn. It makes a huge difference in my happiness and his.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 10:28     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
Anonymous wrote:Seasoned wife and mother here.

Young mothers tend to be control freaks - not a bad thing per se, but attending to the needs of a young brood tends to bring that out in some people.

The advice that I will give a lot of you probably will not register for a few years, but here goes. If you want to have a good relationship with your DH and just a peaceful marriage, a lot of you need to learn to delegate properly. My marriage is not perfect but this is a skill that I learned after a few years. DH is pretty active with household stuff anyways, but if I ask him (not tell) him to do something, I do not tell him HOW to get the task done and if the task is done within reason, I do not critique it. Now if he really screws it up (which is rare) I mention it to him, but not in a negative confrontational posture. One example is that my DH uses the dishwasher and I prefer to hand-wash. Thus, I know that if I need him to cover the dishes, he is going to do it his way. And if I want it done MY way, I should be prepared to do it myself. I am just not sure it is constructive for a person or a marriage to micromanage to that degree.

Many of you are in the "pre-martyr" stage where you insist your DH is an idiot and that is why you have to do everything.


So what is your take on the popcorn clean-up at issue?
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 10:12     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
Anonymous wrote:Seasoned wife and mother here.

Young mothers tend to be control freaks - not a bad thing per se, but attending to the needs of a young brood tends to bring that out in some people.

The advice that I will give a lot of you probably will not register for a few years, but here goes. If you want to have a good relationship with your DH and just a peaceful marriage, a lot of you need to learn to delegate properly. My marriage is not perfect but this is a skill that I learned after a few years. DH is pretty active with household stuff anyways, but if I ask him (not tell) him to do something, I do not tell him HOW to get the task done and if the task is done within reason, I do not critique it. Now if he really screws it up (which is rare) I mention it to him, but not in a negative confrontational posture. One example is that my DH uses the dishwasher and I prefer to hand-wash. Thus, I know that if I need him to cover the dishes, he is going to do it his way. And if I want it done MY way, I should be prepared to do it myself. I am just not sure it is constructive for a person or a marriage to micromanage to that degree.

Many of you are in the "pre-martyr" stage where you insist your DH is an idiot and that is why you have to do everything.


4 years in and one baby and this is great advice. I do know this but its good to have a reminder or kick in the ass sometimes when I become a little insane!
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 10:09     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
Seasoned wife and mother here.

Young mothers tend to be control freaks - not a bad thing per se, but attending to the needs of a young brood tends to bring that out in some people.

The advice that I will give a lot of you probably will not register for a few years, but here goes. If you want to have a good relationship with your DH and just a peaceful marriage, a lot of you need to learn to delegate properly. My marriage is not perfect but this is a skill that I learned after a few years. DH is pretty active with household stuff anyways, but if I ask him (not tell) him to do something, I do not tell him HOW to get the task done and if the task is done within reason, I do not critique it. Now if he really screws it up (which is rare) I mention it to him, but not in a negative confrontational posture. One example is that my DH uses the dishwasher and I prefer to hand-wash. Thus, I know that if I need him to cover the dishes, he is going to do it his way. And if I want it done MY way, I should be prepared to do it myself. I am just not sure it is constructive for a person or a marriage to micromanage to that degree.

Many of you are in the "pre-martyr" stage where you insist your DH is an idiot and that is why you have to do everything.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 09:54     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
I agree that this was but one event in a long history of others. Is popcorn clean up a big deal? Of course not. But my guess is that you were rushing out to the next activity, your wife was feeling stressed and like the burden of everything falls on her shoulders. You then walk out and instead of cleaning up the popcorn, you brushed it aside. Not worthy of the reaction which any rational adult would agree -- but...I bet she will have her reason for the reaction if you discuss it now, after the fact.

As a PP said, this is more about each of your reactions to stress, anxiety, and at the root of most relationship issues, how you two communicate.

If you talk about this away from the kids and at a time when you are both able to think it through, I may help. At the very least, you will learn what she meant by "clean it up" and you can explain your thinking as well.

I'm divorced, so I've been in a miserable relationship where I thought bad things every day. I'm in a much healthier, happier relationship now. In conflict with my BF, I am always thinking in the back of my mind, "he is not intentionally hurting me or acting like a jerk." His motives are usually good and kind. It helps when he explains his reasoning, even if it sounds ludicrous to me at the time. We listen to each other. My ex, well, he'd do whatever he could to stick it to me at every turn. So...are your motives on the up and up, are your wife's? I'd think about that and figure out what to do next.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 09:40     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a woman. I wouldn't have bothered to sweep it to the side or ask anyone else to do it and just left it as is. Plenty of birds, squirrels, etc that would take care of it.

What I find is that lots of women just want to bitch that their DH's don't do enough even when there is nothing for either of them to do.


And then if the husbands don't do as required, sex is used as the bargaining chip.


It's not a bargaining chip, it's a natural consequence. Who wants to sleep with someone who shows so little consideration they can't do a basic chore, and that happens over and over again? Laziness is unattractive.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 09:31     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
Anonymous wrote:If women are so oppressed by the Patriarchy and whatnot, why is it so often the wife telling the husband what to do and so often the wife who gets to make the rules about what's good enough?

I mean, I know there are a few pricks telling their wives to clean the kitchen & then telling her to do it again because it's not good enough; but they seem to be in the minority and I generally expect outrage when that type of example comes up. By contrast, the henpecked husband is a cliche for a reason.


I think you're overlooking all of the posts on this thread disagreeing with telling a husband what to do and bitching about it.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 09:20     Subject: Re:Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
Anonymous wrote:OP I am sure this is not the first time you have blown off a chore. Or felt sorry for yourself after you did it. Or asked someone else to feel sorry for you when you did it. If you value your relationship, you will think hard about why she said this. I am sure it did not come from no where. Nice try, though, picking something innocuous to make your point.


No, it's never acceptable. She should act like an adult.
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 09:20     Subject: Re:Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If it weren't for the fact that we didn't have a popcorn incident, I'd wonder if this were my husband posting. For me, it's that whenever I ask him for help for something around the house, he takes the laziest, most half-ass route to get himself just barely within some definition of having done what I asked him to do, but the reality is that I end up having to redo whatever I ask him to do because it's causing more problems than he solved. It's incredibly frustrating to feel like you have one more child, rather than a partner.

Sweeping popcorn off the steps and into the grass/mulch is exactly the kind of thing he would do to save himself the effort of getting a dustpan and putting the popcorn into the trash. Then I would end up out there cleaning it up properly so we didn't attract insects/rodent (or look like "those neighbors" with trash all over their lawn), and he'd wonder why I wasn't in the mood for sex that evening. The only difference is that I don't so thoroughly loathe him that I would say something like that in front of the kids.


You are me.


+1
Anonymous
Post 09/15/2014 09:05     Subject: Popcorn Problem: how could this have been handled better?
If women are so oppressed by the Patriarchy and whatnot, why is it so often the wife telling the husband what to do and so often the wife who gets to make the rules about what's good enough?

I mean, I know there are a few pricks telling their wives to clean the kitchen & then telling her to do it again because it's not good enough; but they seem to be in the minority and I generally expect outrage when that type of example comes up. By contrast, the henpecked husband is a cliche for a reason.