Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 23:56     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
Anonymous wrote:Getting this thread back to it's topic….

Here is a wonderful link of a former ordained Deacon, who graduated from Harvard undergraduate school, then graduated from Harvard Divinity School. He is now a Harvard Divinity School professor that converted to Islam. It's one hour long.

He explains why…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTqrOurm8KU

You realize no one will watch that, right?
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 23:55     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
Anonymous wrote:

100,000 people per year in America alone, are converting to Islam. For every 1 male convert to Islam, 4 females convert to Islam.


This is complete, utter, unadulterated bullshit.

No one collects statistics on conversions in America, much less on their gender splits.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 23:52     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
Getting this thread back to it's topic….

Here is a wonderful link of a former ordained Deacon, who graduated from Harvard undergraduate school, then graduated from Harvard Divinity School. He is now a Harvard Divinity School professor that converted to Islam. It's one hour long.

He explains why…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTqrOurm8KU
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 23:29     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
Because beheading looks like a lousy alternative....
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 23:27     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Likewise. And this is why Muslima & I felt it so necessary to correct other pp's absurd distortions of Islam.

These threads may or may not clarify distortions. Based on the conversion rate, I think people are reading and it gets them thinking.

But my goal is not to proselytize, people seem to be going to Islam on their own so they certainly do not need my posts.

But if I read nonsense conclusions made about Islam, I will keep starting new threads to clarify.

And I did read the entire Corinthians passage. You accept Paul but not everything he said. You reject Old Testament but still regard it sacred and consider it part of the Bible. Statues of Mary are always wearing a veil in and even outside of churches. Was she always praying then? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Where in New Testament does it explicitly say veils even during prayer no longer required? Without expressly rejecting the veil how do Christians come to the conclusion it is indeed rejected practice? There must be principles in the OT that are not reiterated in the NT but still hold value, no? If everything in the OT was rejected, it would not be considered sacred, no?


Like many Christians, I respect the Old Testament, but Jesus came with a new set of rules. Jesus specifically countermanded Old Testament rules for marriage, concubines, dietary rules, eye for eye, dealing with your enemy, and whatnot that you keep bringing up. So those Old Testament rules aren't just irrelevant to me, I'd actually be going against Jesus' commands if, for example, I took a second spouse. This is why most Christians don't take the Old Testament word for word, although of course they respect it. I don't think you realize how ludicrous it looks to Christian eyes, when you post a passage from Kings about polygamy and then insist that Christianity allows polygamy - this statement completely ignores Jesus' subsequent declarations about marriage. This distinction between respecting the OT vs. following the OT literally is clear and simple to millions of Christians, but if you can't get comfortable with that, then it's not really my concern.

Similarly, I've explained that most Christians see Paul as "inspired" but not equivalent to Jesus. Paul wrote letters to the early Christians; Jesus is God's son. This distinction is clear and simple to millions of Christians. But if you can't get comfortable with it, then I'm not bothered.

Unlike you, I don't feel the need to get my religion out there in front of everybody. I'm really only here to correct some howlers you've posted about concubines and polygamy being allowable in Christianity, veils and such. So you can take what I've just said, or leave it: I'm not going to follow your example of arguing and recasting for 10 pages and then end up insulting peoples' employability. I'll make this last post, and then that's all.

Nor do I share your obsession with converts to your religion. Yes, I know lots of Muslim atheists and several Muslim converts to Christianity. But what's important is my own comfort in my faith. I'm proud of my faith and how it treats women and the vulnerable in our society. Perhaps my favorite part of Christianity the absence of an "us vs. them" mentality. Lots of religions tell you to love your neighbor, but it's pretty easy to love your neighbor. Christianity tells you to love your enemy. Of course, you will certainly see Christians who have this "us vs. them" mentality. But that goes against everything Jesus said about turning the other cheek and loving your enemy.


But what about the part of all of the 4 billion or so nonChristians who are going to hell for not accepting Jesus Christ as their savior? Thats not very neighborly, is it, let alone "turning the other cheek" or "loving thy enemy." Sorry to see you go from this thread because as a Muslim parts of Christianity just don't make sense to me. And just as they do not make sense to me, they may not make sense to those who contemplated conversion to Christianity.

Anyhow, I'd like to move this topic to a different thread so that DCUMers can learn more about why people convert to Islam.

Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 22:38     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
OP, I'm sort of dreading the threads you say you're going to start on veiling and disciplining the Muslim wife. On the Trinity thread you complained about negativity. Do you really want to go there again?

You seem to think your threads are convincing people, that you're winning arguments and that people are changing their opinion of Islam and even converting. May I respectfully suggest that this is delusional. Maybe it's time to take a break, go recharge, get a new perspective.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 22:22     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
Anonymous wrote:The answer to OP's question, as with many similar questions, such as "why do people convert to Mormonism", "why do people convert to Catholicism", etc, becomes a lot easier to ascertain once you grasp a simple truth: most people are gullible idiots, and will grasp on to something, however nonsensical and ludicrous, in a desperate attempt to give meaning to their pitiful lives.

The educated kaffirah here. I think your language is too harsh and I wouldn't call them pitiful. But I do think that most converts to whatever religion have a hole inside them, and their hope is for the religion to fill it up. Or perhaps the religious gene is something that you either get, or you don't. I feel fortunate I had a non-religious upbringing, and the need to believe in something not of your own making is strange to me. But then again, as long as it gives people comfort, it's really whatever gets you through the night.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 22:18     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
The answer to OP's question, as with many similar questions, such as "why do people convert to Mormonism", "why do people convert to Catholicism", etc, becomes a lot easier to ascertain once you grasp a simple truth: most people are gullible idiots, and will grasp on to something, however nonsensical and ludicrous, in a desperate attempt to give meaning to their pitiful lives.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 21:55     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
Anonymous wrote:Likewise. And this is why Muslima & I felt it so necessary to correct other pp's absurd distortions of Islam.

These threads may or may not clarify distortions. Based on the conversion rate, I think people are reading and it gets them thinking.

But my goal is not to proselytize, people seem to be going to Islam on their own so they certainly do not need my posts.

But if I read nonsense conclusions made about Islam, I will keep starting new threads to clarify.

And I did read the entire Corinthians passage. You accept Paul but not everything he said. You reject Old Testament but still regard it sacred and consider it part of the Bible. Statues of Mary are always wearing a veil in and even outside of churches. Was she always praying then? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Where in New Testament does it explicitly say veils even during prayer no longer required? Without expressly rejecting the veil how do Christians come to the conclusion it is indeed rejected practice? There must be principles in the OT that are not reiterated in the NT but still hold value, no? If everything in the OT was rejected, it would not be considered sacred, no?


Like many Christians, I respect the Old Testament, but Jesus came with a new set of rules. Jesus specifically countermanded Old Testament rules for marriage, concubines, dietary rules, eye for eye, dealing with your enemy, and whatnot that you keep bringing up. So those Old Testament rules aren't just irrelevant to me, I'd actually be going against Jesus' commands if, for example, I took a second spouse. This is why most Christians don't take the Old Testament word for word, although of course they respect it. I don't think you realize how ludicrous it looks to Christian eyes, when you post a passage from Kings about polygamy and then insist that Christianity allows polygamy - this statement completely ignores Jesus' subsequent declarations about marriage. This distinction between respecting the OT vs. following the OT literally is clear and simple to millions of Christians, but if you can't get comfortable with that, then it's not really my concern.

Similarly, I've explained that most Christians see Paul as "inspired" but not equivalent to Jesus. Paul wrote letters to the early Christians; Jesus is God's son. This distinction is clear and simple to millions of Christians. But if you can't get comfortable with it, then I'm not bothered.

Unlike you, I don't feel the need to get my religion out there in front of everybody. I'm really only here to correct some howlers you've posted about concubines and polygamy being allowable in Christianity, veils and such. So you can take what I've just said, or leave it: I'm not going to follow your example of arguing and recasting for 10 pages and then end up insulting peoples' employability. I'll make this last post, and then that's all.

Nor do I share your obsession with converts to your religion. Yes, I know lots of Muslim atheists and several Muslim converts to Christianity. But what's important is my own comfort in my faith. I'm proud of my faith and how it treats women and the vulnerable in our society. Perhaps my favorite part of Christianity the absence of an "us vs. them" mentality. Lots of religions tell you to love your neighbor, but it's pretty easy to love your neighbor. Christianity tells you to love your enemy. Of course, you will certainly see Christians who have this "us vs. them" mentality. But that goes against everything Jesus said about turning the other cheek and loving your enemy.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 21:27     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
Anonymous wrote:Likewise. And this is why Muslima & I felt it so necessary to correct other pp's absurd distortions of Islam.

These threads may or may not clarify distortions. Based on the conversion rate, I think people are reading and it gets them thinking.

But my goal is not to proselytize, people seem to be going to Islam on their own so they certainly do not need my posts.

But if I read nonsense conclusions made about Islam, I will keep starting new threads to clarify.

And I did read the entire Corinthians passage. You accept Paul but not everything he said. You reject Old Testament but still regard it sacred and consider it part of the Bible. Statues of Mary are always wearing a veil in and even outside of churches. Was she always praying then? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Where in New Testament does it explicitly say veils even during prayer no longer required? Without expressly rejecting the veil how do Christians come to the conclusion it is indeed rejected practice? There must be principles in the OT that are not reiterated in the NT but still hold value, no? If everything in the OT was rejected, it would not be considered sacred, no?

It doesn't need to be expressly rejected. It just has to be not expressly mandated.

What statues of Mary are wearing isn't necessarily a prescribed attire for all. It just may be the author's idea of what she looked like, not what all women are supposed to look like. She always wears long dresses because that's how women dressed at the time. It doesn't mean all Christians need to dress like her.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 21:24     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
Anonymous wrote:Likewise. And this is why Muslima & I felt it so necessary to correct other pp's absurd distortions of Islam.

These threads may or may not clarify distortions. Based on the conversion rate, I think people are reading and it gets them thinking.

But my goal is not to proselytize, people seem to be going to Islam on their own so they certainly do not need my posts.

But if I read nonsense conclusions made about Islam, I will keep starting new threads to clarify.

And I did read the entire Corinthians passage. You accept Paul but not everything he said. You reject Old Testament but still regard it sacred and consider it part of the Bible. Statues of Mary are always wearing a veil in and even outside of churches. Was she always praying then? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Where in New Testament does it explicitly say veils even during prayer no longer required? Without expressly rejecting the veil how do Christians come to the conclusion it is indeed rejected practice? There must be principles in the OT that are not reiterated in the NT but still hold value, no? If everything in the OT was rejected, it would not be considered sacred, no?


Well, at least you're honest and up front about your motives and your obsessions!
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 20:45     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
Likewise. And this is why Muslima & I felt it so necessary to correct other pp's absurd distortions of Islam.

These threads may or may not clarify distortions. Based on the conversion rate, I think people are reading and it gets them thinking.

But my goal is not to proselytize, people seem to be going to Islam on their own so they certainly do not need my posts.

But if I read nonsense conclusions made about Islam, I will keep starting new threads to clarify.

And I did read the entire Corinthians passage. You accept Paul but not everything he said. You reject Old Testament but still regard it sacred and consider it part of the Bible. Statues of Mary are always wearing a veil in and even outside of churches. Was she always praying then? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Where in New Testament does it explicitly say veils even during prayer no longer required? Without expressly rejecting the veil how do Christians come to the conclusion it is indeed rejected practice? There must be principles in the OT that are not reiterated in the NT but still hold value, no? If everything in the OT was rejected, it would not be considered sacred, no?
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 18:50     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The veil requirement is its own subject. Some women have a hard time with it. Perhaps I will give it its own thread,


Why just veils? How about a thread on the Quranic verse re striking/tapping your wife for disobedience? Have we covered things like dowry? Maybe I'll bring these up on your new thread, because I agree, women deserve their on thread in general.


Separate thread for each of these, they are specific and different topics and generate extensive discussion, which they should. Don't worry, we'll beat every issue to death, and I hope it will clarify.


Ok. Not sure why you think that's a good idea, these threads don't seem to work out well for you.

Fair warning: if you post any more ridiculous distortions about Christianity from Muslim proselytizing sites--like the claim here that Christianity requires veiling "equal to Islam," or your claims on other threads that Christianity allows polygamy and concubines--then I'll be right on it. It'll be easy, because I can just cut and paste from the responses to you here and on those other threads. And I'm happy to add more if the degree of nonsense calls for it.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 18:37     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The veil requirement is its own subject. Some women have a hard time with it. Perhaps I will give it its own thread,


Why just veils? How about a thread on the Quranic verse re striking/tapping your wife for disobedience? Have we covered things like dowry? Maybe I'll bring these up on your new thread, because I agree, women deserve their on thread in general.


Separate thread for each of these, they are specific and different topics and generate extensive discussion, which they should. Don't worry, we'll beat every issue to death, and I hope it will clarify.
Anonymous
Post 09/10/2014 17:34     Subject: Why Some People Convert to Islam

Anonymous wrote:
But how did you come to the conclusion that these two, either the man gouging his eyes out if he visually lusts or the woman wearing a head cover, mutually exclusive? Couldn't God in the Bible have required women to cover their heads AND also impose the punishment on men for looking?

In Islam, BOTH are commanded: the men need to lower their gaze around women and the woman required to dress modestly.

Looks to me that Christianity & Islam are almost identical on this point!


You need to read the actual Bible passage, and not just the astonishingly broad summary in that dawwah piece. Here's the dawwah piece again: "8. The Bible also asks women to wear veils as in Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}."

Here's the actual passage from Corinthians 11:3-10: "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven."

In other words, Paul advised women to cover their heads in church and while praying.

There's nothing in the entire New Testament about women having to wear veils in public, outside of praying. As noted earlier, the veils-in-church thing is if you think Paul's letters carry equal weight to Jesus' words. So for women who are going out in public, we go back to Jesus telling men to control their urges.

So no, Christianity and Islam are not "almost identical on this point"!