Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 10:12     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
"So what is the solution? Forced busing? Open all schools to lottery so that all kids might be bused 2-3 hours each day to school? ...I'm wondering what *specifically* MoCo and MCPS should do beyond what it's doing? "

uh, yeah. The county's schools that have highly concentrated high wealth populations of kids are not wildly far away from the areas with the highest concentrations of FARMS kids. I don't think a lottery is best though since that would send the buses every which way. But linking up larger sections of high FARMs areas as within the attendance zone for currently low FARMs areas so that you equalize a bit more the level of FARMs kids that any one school might have - sorry, I just don't see that as wildly insane especially when a really big chunk of both groups is in the southern portion of the county - it's not like we're talking about the need to bus from Clarksburg to CC.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 10:12     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
Montgomery County is not diverse at all. There are a few communities with true diversity but most are pockets of different ethnic, religious and cultural groups. If you look at county gov't it is also heavily skewed. There is absolutely nothing diverse about the county.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 10:12     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
Anonymous wrote:

You aren't allowed to rent out an apartment in your home? I wasn't sure what you meant by that.


You may rent out an apartment in your home, if it meets a very long list of requirements, many of which are not under your control. See here:

http://www6.montgomerycountymd.gov/apps/dhca/licensing/pdf/Fact_Sheet.pdf

Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 10:06     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

So what is the solution? Forced busing? Open all schools to lottery so that all kids might be bused 2-3 hours each day to school? Force developers to build low-income housing projects in wealthy neighborhoods, or prohibit further development of expensive housing in W districts? I'm wondering what *specifically* MoCo and MCPS should do beyond what it's doing?


Why do you assume that the only way to increase the supply of not-ridiculously-expensive housing in wealthy neighborhoods is to force developers to build "low-income housing projects"? How about allowing developers to build multi-family housing (including apartment and condo buildings) in wealthy neighborhoods? How about allowing homeowners in wealthy neighborhoods, as well as non-wealthy neighborhoods, to create and rent out accessory apartments?


You aren't allowed to rent out an apartment in your home? I wasn't sure what you meant by that.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 10:04     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
Anonymous wrote:

So what is the solution? Forced busing? Open all schools to lottery so that all kids might be bused 2-3 hours each day to school? Force developers to build low-income housing projects in wealthy neighborhoods, or prohibit further development of expensive housing in W districts? I'm wondering what *specifically* MoCo and MCPS should do beyond what it's doing?


Why do you assume that the only way to increase the supply of not-ridiculously-expensive housing in wealthy neighborhoods is to force developers to build "low-income housing projects"? How about allowing developers to build multi-family housing (including apartment and condo buildings) in wealthy neighborhoods? How about allowing homeowners in wealthy neighborhoods, as well as non-wealthy neighborhoods, to create and rent out accessory apartments?
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 09:56     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
Anonymous wrote:"I guess it depends on what you think the main purpose of MCPS is -- maintaining property values, or educating children. "

nice point.

Just finished reading Savage Inequalities yesterday - right as OP posted this. The book is pretty old (released I think in the early 90s) but it's amazing how little has changed. The only benefit the poor schools in MoCo have over the defacto segregated schools the book spotlights is that MoCo funding levels are equitable across the county (w/ even a bit more poured into needy schools) so that it is not a slam dunk that the wealthy schools will have low class counts & great buildings while the poor schools have high kid counts & crappy buildings. And teacher pay is I think the same throughout the county. So on the plus side, MoCo already does do a number of things to help make the funding inequalities so stark; the problem is though that in addition you also need to dilute a bit the concentration levels of needy kids so that they are not overwhelming any given school. MoCo is not at all prepared to do that.


Great book! Love Jonathan Kozol.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 09:56     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:"I guess it depends on what you think the main purpose of MCPS is -- maintaining property values, or educating children. "

nice point.

Just finished reading Savage Inequalities yesterday - right as OP posted this. The book is pretty old (released I think in the early 90s) but it's amazing how little has changed. The only benefit the poor schools in MoCo have over the defacto segregated schools the book spotlights is that MoCo funding levels are equitable across the county (w/ even a bit more poured into needy schools) so that it is not a slam dunk that the wealthy schools will have low class counts & great buildings while the poor schools have high kid counts & crappy buildings. And teacher pay is I think the same throughout the county. So on the plus side, MoCo already does do a number of things to help make the funding inequalities so stark; the problem is though that in addition you also need to dilute a bit the concentration levels of needy kids so that they are not overwhelming any given school. MoCo is not at all prepared to do that.


I don't know if MoCo is not prepared to do that, but through ongoing policy choices, it continually chooses not to do that.


So what is the solution? Forced busing? Open all schools to lottery so that all kids might be bused 2-3 hours each day to school? Force developers to build low-income housing projects in wealthy neighborhoods, or prohibit further development of expensive housing in W districts? I'm wondering what *specifically* MoCo and MCPS should do beyond what it's doing?
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 09:10     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
Anonymous wrote:"I guess it depends on what you think the main purpose of MCPS is -- maintaining property values, or educating children. "

nice point.

Just finished reading Savage Inequalities yesterday - right as OP posted this. The book is pretty old (released I think in the early 90s) but it's amazing how little has changed. The only benefit the poor schools in MoCo have over the defacto segregated schools the book spotlights is that MoCo funding levels are equitable across the county (w/ even a bit more poured into needy schools) so that it is not a slam dunk that the wealthy schools will have low class counts & great buildings while the poor schools have high kid counts & crappy buildings. And teacher pay is I think the same throughout the county. So on the plus side, MoCo already does do a number of things to help make the funding inequalities so stark; the problem is though that in addition you also need to dilute a bit the concentration levels of needy kids so that they are not overwhelming any given school. MoCo is not at all prepared to do that.


I don't know if MoCo is not prepared to do that, but through ongoing policy choices, it continually chooses not to do that.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 09:08     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:To 21:14 - Bussing will never happen. It's way too costly and controversial. If we can't afford to adjust the bus schedules so the HS kids don't need to be at the bus stop at 6:30, then fat chance we can afford to bus kids across the county in the name of diversity.

If they magically decided to bus wealthy white kids, parents would yank their kids out and put them in private.

Where is there tons of open land to be developed in Bethseda and Potomac? I'm not talking about tear downs or a smattering of McMansions. You need a large enough development for mpdu laws to apply...and even so, it's a small portion of essentially workforce housing (which often means white people who are cops, firefighters, teachers.. People with steady incomes).

Unfortunately, the low income housing is concentrated in certain areas of the county. It is what it is.


No, it isn't what it is. It is what we made it. On purpose. The residential economic segregation of Montgomery County is a feature, not a bug.

I'm also interested in your assumption that police officers, firefighters, teachers, and other people with steady incomes are white people.


I agree. Housing segregation is a policy choice. It is not a happenstance.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 08:50     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
This place is plenty diverse. We lived in SC before this and my daughter didn't have anything but whites in her class and 2 partial asian kids. We are in a W elementary school and there is plenty of Asians, Indians, and African Americans.

The SES is the problem and unfortunately will not get better. People pay real estate and rent to stay away from that. There are too many non-english speaking kids, families that are not involved and lots of funding that goes towards just feeding them and providing english. Your average kid may be the most intelligent in the class and not pushed as hard if they were in a school with peers with active families whose kids have gone to pre-k and are prepared.

To me, that is the problem. Kids in SES areas should have access to free pre schooling from 2-4yrs old. It helps the parents who obviously need to work and it helps the kids stay away from an all spanish environment and actually prep for school.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 08:43     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink. This is educational Darwinism leave it alone.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 08:20     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine bought a single family home in a majority hispanic neighbourhood because it is in a magnet school district and he prefer a single family home over a townhouse in Rockville. He discovered that his neighbors have 4-5 cars parked on street, often block his driveway; they play lord music in their houses that they can hear it in his back yard; many front yards are not up kept; front doors can be bright blue, yellow, pink or orange; and they really love to party and are very happy. On education side, they are happy that their kids can go to school and get everything free, the teen girl gets pregnant and starts to have babies. By the way, they all go to church on Sunday morning.
It is a different culture and will stay with them. American is not a melting pot anymore, instead, it is a salad bowl, no dressing will melt them.


So your "friend" did next to no due diligence before buying in this neighborhood? Or did the residents all paint their doors and blast their music to welcome him? This sounds made up.


Note to self: paint front door bright blue.

Further note to self: avoid salad dressing that melts the salad.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 08:10     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
"I guess it depends on what you think the main purpose of MCPS is -- maintaining property values, or educating children. "

nice point.

Just finished reading Savage Inequalities yesterday - right as OP posted this. The book is pretty old (released I think in the early 90s) but it's amazing how little has changed. The only benefit the poor schools in MoCo have over the defacto segregated schools the book spotlights is that MoCo funding levels are equitable across the county (w/ even a bit more poured into needy schools) so that it is not a slam dunk that the wealthy schools will have low class counts & great buildings while the poor schools have high kid counts & crappy buildings. And teacher pay is I think the same throughout the county. So on the plus side, MoCo already does do a number of things to help make the funding inequalities so stark; the problem is though that in addition you also need to dilute a bit the concentration levels of needy kids so that they are not overwhelming any given school. MoCo is not at all prepared to do that.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 08:05     Subject: MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine bought a single family home in a majority hispanic neighbourhood because it is in a magnet school district and he prefer a single family home over a townhouse in Rockville. He discovered that his neighbors have 4-5 cars parked on street, often block his driveway; they play lord music in their houses that they can hear it in his back yard; many front yards are not up kept; front doors can be bright blue, yellow, pink or orange; and they really love to party and are very happy. On education side, they are happy that their kids can go to school and get everything free, the teen girl gets pregnant and starts to have babies. By the way, they all go to church on Sunday morning.
It is a different culture and will stay with them. American is not a melting pot anymore, instead, it is a salad bowl, no dressing will melt them.


So your "friend" did next to no due diligence before buying in this neighborhood? Or did the residents all paint their doors and blast their music to welcome him? This sounds made up.
Anonymous
Post 09/04/2014 08:01     Subject: Re:MoCo is diverse, for sure, but MCPS schools are not
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't see an easy solution nor if we really need one. We bought a house in X area because we liked the area and it had good schools. If the area is rezoned for bad schools, won't people who can afford to just move to areas zoned for good schools?

Besides, the school district is factored into property values. Property values are higher in areas with good schools. Why should MCPS make a change that would reduce the equity (property values) of so many residents in the name of diversity?


I think that you just answered your own question -- assuming that you believe that all children deserve to go to good schools, regardless of how much money their parents have or don't have.

"The good school is made with kids whose parents care about education". And "bad school is often made with kids from poor family". It is not the school buildings, the teachers and administrators that make school good or bad.
Diversity is not going to enhance the academic performance of the kids in "bad" school. Diversity only benefit the kids in good school so the kids will have a rich experience to learn life from kids come from difference culture and social economics. After being bused back to their home, the kids will keep speak ingt Spanish and watch Spanish TV program and baby sit their young siblings.


OK, then you're right, not only is it impossible to solve the problem, but actually there is no problem! Good parents have money and can send their good kids to schools they make good; bad parents are poor (and speak Spanish) and send their bad (Spanish-speaking) kids to schools they make bad; and everybody gets what they deserve.