Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the Asians and Indians who cheat on these tests, far more than other groups.

"Emphasizing and weighing GBRS works against minorities including Asians (partially due to language, not being as assertive/active participants etc.) and the whites are the ones mostly engaged in prepping 2nd graders. In addition, white parents are more likely to visit the school/classroom to volunteer and explain their kids to teacher and other school officials and submit examples. Another scam to limit the number of minorities and increase the number of white kids just like at the top colleges. Perhaps the dilution of the AAP and the out of control expansion of the program is mostly due to these above average but not gifted kids taking up spots in AAP."

+100 Citation?

Anonymous wrote:We are from NYC where you need to take the test for GT before you start kindergarten. They also have a December cut off for Kindergarten so many kids start kindergarten at age 4. You better bet everyone is prepping for these tests.

My kids are currently only in preschool but we live in FFX County. I will probably buy a few books to expose my kids to the type of questions. If you think I will spend endless hours on this, you are mistaken. I may do a few runs with my then 2nd grader so he understands how to answer a question when the time comes.

Well aware of how it is in NYC, which is why many of us live here, not there. FFX County is not NYC, but as more people are convinced by hysteria on boards like these that their kids have to do well on these tests or resign themselves to a substandard education, it will become that bad.

Fortunately, long before that happens, most of the sought after schools in FCPS are going to have Local Level IV and phase out centers, so this desperate need parents feel to push their kid to get to a better school will end. Of course, LLIV, like the AAP centers is really just tracking by another name. Still amazed a smart attorney hasn't figured out a way to challenge the inequity of the whole AAP program as currently administered.

Anonymous wrote:It is the Asians and Indians who cheat on these tests, far more than other groups.

"Emphasizing and weighing GBRS works against minorities including Asians (partially due to language, not being as assertive/active participants etc.) and the whites are the ones mostly engaged in prepping 2nd graders. In addition, white parents are more likely to visit the school/classroom to volunteer and explain their kids to teacher and other school officials and submit examples. Another scam to limit the number of minorities and increase the number of white kids just like at the top colleges. Perhaps the dilution of the AAP and the out of control expansion of the program is mostly due to these above average but not gifted kids taking up spots in AAP."

It is the Asians and Indians who cheat on these tests, far more than other groups.

Anonymous wrote:I did not want my kid to be in AAP so my kid did not attend AAP. I wanted my kid to enjoy his elementary/middle school years doing things he liked and having the time exploring those things. It's great to engage in sports, reading books of all kinds, variety of club activities without too much competition and busy work. I knew my kid was bright and didn't need AAP validation. He explored subjects he was interested in such as astronomy, human anatomy, oceans/marine life, hieroglyphics, ancient civilizations, creative writing etc. He had ample time to explore and learn about subjects he was interested in and not covered by public schools.

Even though he did not go through AAP, he is doing great at TJ and one of the top students there. There are kids from some of the best AAP centers in the county not doing so great at TJ as well. I think elementary school age kids should have time to explore and absorb on their own without the artificial labeling. AAP is not necessary to perform well in high school (even at one that is extremely rigorous).

You could have described my son as well. We also felt no need for AAP (at the time, it was GT), and we declined the program. DS graduated in top 10% of high school class and is now excelling in college. AAP/GT had nothing to do with DS's success, but having the freedom to explore and study whatever interested him outside of the classroom did. He has always loved learning for learning's sake, not because he had some meaningless label attached to him.

I wish AAP started in kindergarten here as well....perhaps the kids would learn more.

Anonymous wrote:PP, here again. My take is a parent with kids in both AAP and GE. What I don't like about the current iteration of AAP is that it creates a false division between smart and not as smart, when it's really too early to tell.

Couldn't agree more. This is my biggest gripe with the whole program - the false division of kids and the fallout, both socially and academically, that ensues. No child needs to be labled one way or another so early in elementary school.

I did not want my kid to be in AAP so my kid did not attend AAP. I wanted my kid to enjoy his elementary/middle school years doing things he liked and having the time exploring those things. It's great to engage in sports, reading books of all kinds, variety of club activities without too much competition and busy work. I knew my kid was bright and didn't need AAP validation. He explored subjects he was interested in such as astronomy, human anatomy, oceans/marine life, hieroglyphics, ancient civilizations, creative writing etc. He had ample time to explore and learn about subjects he was interested in and not covered by public schools.

Even though he did not go through AAP, he is doing great at TJ and one of the top students there. There are kids from some of the best AAP centers in the county not doing so great at TJ as well. I think elementary school age kids should have time to explore and absorb on their own without the artificial labeling. AAP is not necessary to perform well in high school (even at one that is extremely rigorous).

Anonymous wrote:We are from NYC where you need to take the test for GT before you start kindergarten. They also have a December cut off for Kindergarten so many kids start kindergarten at age 4. You better bet everyone is prepping for these tests.

My kids are currently only in preschool but we live in FFX County. I will probably buy a few books to expose my kids to the type of questions. If you think I will spend endless hours on this, you are mistaken. I may do a few runs with my then 2nd grader so he understands how to answer a question when the time comes.

I just wanted to add that NYC has a high level of competition and it is extremely difficult to gain acceptance to anything whether it is preschool, GT or private school. Space is simply limited.

I'm so glad we live here in VA where I don't have to even think about this test until 2nd grade. My kids are riding bikes, hanging out at the pool and learning to read leisurely while our NY friends are studying to get into elementary school. Plus the Manhattan population is overly skewed with highly intelligent, well educated and wealthy people so the competition is that much worse.

Expect that my kids can place in the top 15-20% or whatever it is that you need to be to get into AAP.

We are from NYC where you need to take the test for GT before you start kindergarten. They also have a December cut off for Kindergarten so many kids start kindergarten at age 4. You better bet everyone is prepping for these tests.

My kids are currently only in preschool but we live in FFX County. I will probably buy a few books to expose my kids to the type of questions. If you think I will spend endless hours on this, you are mistaken. I may do a few runs with my then 2nd grader so he understands how to answer a question when the time comes.

PP, here again. My take is a parent with kids in both AAP and GE. What I don't like about the current iteration of AAP is that it creates a false division between smart and not as smart, when it's really too early to tell.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the test scores are there the kid should be in. Period.

That would be find if they really were objective measures...but because of the test prep, you can not trust the scores.

So what.

An average kid with average memory and intelligence is not going to prep themselves up to the upper 90s. They just aren't.

So a smart kid manages to gain a point or two, from 95 to 97%?

Not a big deal, and certainluly not worth all this hand wringing and angst.

Likely, if they know how to work that hard they are not the ones holding back the class.

And since as many kids who qualify get in and since there is no cap, they aren't taking a single thing away from a single other student.

My kids don't prep by the way.

One is consistently in the 99.9 range for tests. The other did not qualify but scored very well.

If uou are so fixated on rumor and hearsay about how other kids got placed, then perhaps the reality is that you are insecure because your kid is at the bottom of the class or barely got in. If your kid was comfortably in the middle or at the top of the pack, this drama and nonsense would not even be on your radar.

Not PP, but definitely a parent distressed by the rise of test prep. It's not a matter of being the kids who "work" hard when the parents are pushing them to prep. I can't imagine there is a kid out there asking for a book to prepare them for a test in 1st or 2nd grade.

My concern, in addition to the inequity the prep industry creates, is what it does to education and the culture of learning in this area. I don't want to raise a lot of little test takers and I'm saddened to see more and more kids in my children's classes who have been pressured from a young age to practice problems and do workbooks and study, study, study. I don't think it teaches kids to love learning for the sake of learning, rather it fosters a means to an end attitude. In addition, it ups the pressure on everyone and creates this false sense that if you're not two years ahead in math or reading at a college level in 2nd grade, say, you're behind. Forget that even super smart kids don't have the mental maturity to truly understand a lot of what they're learning, reading, whatever. It's ironica that at the same time you see Koreans, for example, complaining about the psychological fallout from their pressure cooker academics, we seem desperate to ape what they're doing. Sadly, I expect it will take a generation or so, perhaps today's kids growing up and breaking down, before parents lighten up and get smart about this.

Life is a journey, not a race.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line on prepping is it does raise the score. But it does not raise the intelligence. FCPS is trying to measure intelligence -- the county can not afford to give everyone WISCs. What prepping has done is the county has effectively de-weighted the tests in the evaluation process. That is why you see kids with 135 CogAT/NNAT, but lower GBRS not making the AAP cut (based on what I read here). On the other hand, anyone with 13 (or 14) GBRS or above is admitted, even with lower scores.

The test prep makes the test less objective. And the county has made it clear they are against it. But, they do not want to call 2nd graders cheaters....it is the parents that are cheating.

+100

Then FCPS should really improve the level 1,2 & 3 standards. Right now it is a joke; namesake program. This will be a solution to the problem~

What I would like to see and what would also make the program more diverse with regards to minorities is for fcps to place by cluster.

Take the top 2-3% scoring students in each cluster and those kids are automatically placed within their cluster.

Then, any student who scored in the top 2-3% in the district can refer be evaluated for placement as they traditionally do.

Some clusters would have more students of course, but the brightest of the poorer performing clusters would have a chance for the enrichment, and as a result fcps would increase their minority hispanic enrollment as is their goal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the test scores are there the kid should be in. Period.

That would be find if they really were objective measures...but because of the test prep, you can not trust the scores.

So what.

An average kid with average memory and intelligence is not going to prep themselves up to the upper 90s. They just aren't.

So a smart kid manages to gain a point or two, from 95 to 97%?

Not a big deal, and certainluly not worth all this hand wringing and angst.

Likely, if they know how to work that hard they are not the ones holding back the class.

And since as many kids who qualify get in and since there is no cap, they aren't taking a single thing away from a single other student.

My kids don't prep by the way.

One is consistently in the 99.9 range for tests. The other did not qualify but scored very well.

If uou are so fixated on rumor and hearsay about how other kids got placed, then perhaps the reality is that you are insecure because your kid is at the bottom of the class or barely got in. If your kid was comfortably in the middle or at the top of the pack, this drama and nonsense would not even be on your radar.