Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, we are now fighting about the meaning of EotP? I had thought the term was pretty clear, at least from a geographic perspective and was inclusive of everything not WotP, where most have no access to PK3 and feed to Deal or Hardy for MS.

I've never considered EOTP to include Cap Hill. When you are talking about Hill stuff, you just say "Cap Hill".

EOTP schools are a whole sep thing.

Not sure about the usage within this forum, but I first encountered EOTP (said out loud as "East of the Park," not as an Internet abbreviation) a good 30 years ago. At the time, I lived on the Hill & attended a NWDC private; I learned the term from classmates who lived in Hillcrest (East of the River), who used it to refer to both me and themselves, distinguishing ourselves from those who lived WOTP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I plan to leave after K. The reason we are not staying until 5th is because I am afraid that my kid will be behind when we eventually make the move to the suburbs for a good middle school option. I have a family member who is teaching elementary school in VA and they seem to be light years ahead of what is going on in DC schools, simply because they have a population who can be challenged.

"simply because they have a population who can be challenged"--all children (and adults) can be challenged.

But in many DC schools, kids are not challenged because the teacher has to spend so much time getting their classmates up to minimally proficient.

Anonymous wrote:So, we are now fighting about the meaning of EotP? I had thought the term was pretty clear, at least from a geographic perspective and was inclusive of everything not WotP, where most have no access to PK3 and feed to Deal or Hardy for MS.

I've never considered EOTP to include Cap Hill. When you are talking about Hill stuff, you just say "Cap Hill".

EOTP schools are a whole sep thing.

So, we are now fighting about the meaning of EotP? I had thought the term was pretty clear, at least from a geographic perspective and was inclusive of everything not WotP, where most have no access to PK3 and feed to Deal or Hardy for MS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I wonder about that too. Are parents expected to expand and/or improve the facilities? Or do regular maintenance? Review the curriculum? Provide in-class instructional support? Teacher training? Learning specialists?

Yes to all if you are WOTP.

Bzzzt. Wrong. Exactly none of this is handled by parents in dcps.

CCDC parent

Um, yes, we do a little bit of everything there, and a lot of some of it, except teacher training (although we've paid for some of that). Where've you been?

CCDC parent

We don't set the curriculum. We don't tweak it. We don't sit done with the 4th grade and present our recommendations for what we would prefer to see covered in history this year instead of what they have in mind. (Curriculum)

No parent has ever, ever, in the history of dcps "expanded the [school] facility".


We don't replace the windows, service a balky boiler, install better lighting, shore up the bleachers, jackhammer the pavers and replace the blacktop. We don't repoint the brick on the gym or get the ovens to work again. (Facilities maintenance)

There are no parent co-teachers in ward 3. A guest lecture 1x a year about what journalists do does not count. No parents are "providing instruction" as that word is commonly understood. Sitting around with the youngest pre-readers and sharing a book ... possibly.

As parents, we aren't permitted to serve as "learning SPECIALISTS" as that word is professionally defined. I'd be pretty pissed if next year my dyslexic son had Julie, a SAHM until this falll, serving as his learning specialist under his IEP instead of, say, a credentialed professional trained certified by a board.

Where have you been? Or was yours just a reading comp problem? Parents pitch in a lot in these parts, but acting as engineers with heavy earth-moving equipment, they do not. Ditto for curriculum development.

Exactly, PP. Thank you. The self-righteousness of "Um yes we do a little bit of everything" is a real eye-roller.

Anonymous wrote:and when people say "EoTP" they don't mean the Cap Hill schools. Those are the Cap hill schools. They mean Petworth, Columbia Heights, Logan Circle, Brookland etc.

Since when?! Seriously, no. EotP definitely includes the Cap Hill schools. The only possible exception might be Brent, but even then everyone bails after 4th.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I wonder about that too. Are parents expected to expand and/or improve the facilities? Or do regular maintenance? Review the curriculum? Provide in-class instructional support? Teacher training? Learning specialists?

Yes to all if you are WOTP.

Bzzzt. Wrong. Exactly none of this is handled by parents in dcps.

CCDC parent

Um, yes, we do a little bit of everything there, and a lot of some of it, except teacher training (although we've paid for some of that). Where've you been?

CCDC parent

We don't set the curriculum. We don't tweak it. We don't sit done with the 4th grade and present our recommendations for what we would prefer to see covered in history this year instead of what they have in mind. (Curriculum)

No parent has ever, ever, in the history of dcps "expanded the [school] facility".


We don't replace the windows, service a balky boiler, install better lighting, shore up the bleachers, jackhammer the pavers and replace the blacktop. We don't repoint the brick on the gym or get the ovens to work again. (Facilities maintenance)

There are no parent co-teachers in ward 3. A guest lecture 1x a year about what journalists do does not count. No parents are "providing instruction" as that word is commonly understood. Sitting around with the youngest pre-readers and sharing a book ... possibly.

As parents, we aren't permitted to serve as "learning SPECIALISTS" as that word is professionally defined. I'd be pretty pissed if next year my dyslexic son had Julie, a SAHM until this falll, serving as his learning specialist under his IEP instead of, say, a credentialed professional trained certified by a board.

Where have you been? Or was yours just a reading comp problem? Parents pitch in a lot in these parts, but acting as engineers with heavy earth-moving equipment, they do not. Ditto for curriculum development.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I wonder about that too. Are parents expected to expand and/or improve the facilities? Or do regular maintenance? Review the curriculum? Provide in-class instructional support? Teacher training? Learning specialists?

Yes to all if you are WOTP.

Bzzzt. Wrong. Exactly none of this is handled by parents in dcps.

CCDC parent

Um, yes, we do a little bit of everything there, and a lot of some of it, except teacher training (although we've paid for some of that). Where've you been?

CCDC parent

One thing that really hurts schools that are trying to retain students is the policy that once you're in OOB you can go to the destination middle school. People are therefore willing to play the lottery and leave an elementary they're fairly happy with in hopes of getting into one that feeds a better middle school. I am really disappointed that the DME's plan didn't address this issue, because I think it might be one of the major hurdles to improving schools (and probably one of the few hurdles DME is actually able to address--things like childhood poverty and low parental literacy are much greater issues but outside of her control).

I'm not sure how you could so completely underestimate the entrenchment of parents who have taken measures to ensure a specific middle school, but i'm so glad that the DME did NOT make that mistake. It would have derailed everything completely.

We're just entering an EOTP DCPS at PK4, but our plan is to stick it out to 5th grade, if possible. I still really want a particular charter and will keep trying up to 1st grade, but my gut keeps saying that jumping from school to school is a detriment on its own. One reason good schools are good is that they're working with the same cohorts from year to year.

We're thinking of going private for middle and or high school and want to save up for that. Public schooling up to that point frees up income for tutors, enrichment activities, and travel - we really want to make world exposure a big part of learning.

Anything could change, of course, which is why I don't disparage the education-conscious decisions of any parent. We all gotta do what we gotta do; it's self-righteous bullshit to call someone irresponsible for choosing to stick it out, especially given all the credit that "committed parents" get (and give themselves) in successful DCPS schools.

Anonymous wrote:I plan to leave after K. The reason we are not staying until 5th is because I am afraid that my kid will be behind when we eventually make the move to the suburbs for a good middle school option. I have a family member who is teaching elementary school in VA and they seem to be light years ahead of what is going on in DC schools, simply because they have a population who can be challenged.

"simply because they have a population who can be challenged"--all children (and adults) can be challenged.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:and when people say "EoTP" they don't mean the Cap Hill schools. Those are the Cap hill schools. They mean Petworth, Columbia Heights, Logan Circle, Brookland etc.

thank you - I didn't know DCUM terminology. AFAICT in district discussion in general EoTP does include the Hill.

But that's ridiculous - CapHill isn't anywhere near "the park." East of Rock Creek Park are those areas of NW and NE that are, well - east of the park.

So is Cleveland Park not WoTR because its not near the Anacostia?

I read WoTP and EOTR as the distinctive areas - being east of the anacostia means something in terms housing, SES, demographics, politics. being west of rock creek also does. WOTR just means "the rest of DC" as does (in a different sense) EoTP.

Where does EoTP stop? Is Brookland EoTP? It not really closer to Rock Creek than the Hill is. Does it mean EoTP but west of North Cap? West of Georgia Avenue?

Omfg. The only acronym that means anything here stands for "west of the park." That means something now (no charters, no pk3, almost no OOB at all in elementary, and uniformly high -- really high in most cases -- HHI.). Wotp has also meant something for decades. Right or wrong, it's predictable. In voting, professions of residents, whatever.

The rest of DCUM's acronyms are derivative.

Anonymous wrote:

I wonder about that too. Are parents expected to expand and/or improve the facilities? Or do regular maintenance? Review the curriculum? Provide in-class instructional support? Teacher training? Learning specialists?

Yes to all if you are WOTP.

Bzzzt. Wrong. Exactly none of this is handled by parents in dcps.

CCDC parent

Life happens and people move for all sorts of reasons. DH retired and don't want to spend retirement in DC so we are taking our kid out of his DCI feeder and moving to an area that we want to live in given that we don't have a job or anything else to keep us here.

Anonymous wrote:

dcmom wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One thing that really hurts schools that are trying to retain students is the policy that once you're in OOB you can go to the destination middle school. People are therefore willing to play the lottery and leave an elementary they're fairly happy with in hopes of getting into one that feeds a better middle school. I am really disappointed that the DME's plan didn't address this issue, because I think it might be one of the major hurdles to improving schools (and probably one of the few hurdles DME is actually able to address--things like childhood poverty and low parental literacy are much greater issues but outside of her control).

That is a really good point about the feeder rights. I had not thought about that and wished I had put it in my feedback to the DME. Did you provide such feedback?

Yes, I did, on several occasions. I even talked to Abigail Smith about it at a meeting at Dunbar as well as one in my neighborhood. Her challenge is that for every person saying what I said, there was someone who got their kid into Hearst OOB at age 3 who was basically telling her "over my dead body will you take away my kid and her siblings' right to Deal and Wilson." And she chose that second group over the people who thought like I did. This is one area I hope will change in the final plan, and if it doesn't I will try really hard to lobby for whoever the mayor is to change it before implementation. I know the deadline has passed for submitting comments on the draft, but if folks write to Abby Smith about it I'm sure someone will still read it. Folks who care could also talk to the mayoral candidates...

I raised this issue too at a Dunbar meeting. I think it's a tough issue politically because those who have something to lose by changing feeder rights are naturally going to be more engaged than those who have something to gain. That is just the nature of interest group politics unfortunately.

I may have missed a few responses to this thread, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned needing a bigger place and/or middle school options as why they are not sticking with their title 1 school through 5th grade. Here are the reasons we will probably leave out title 1 school after kindergarden if not after PK4:

1) We have two boys and live in a 900 square foot condo that we bought 10+ years ago with no outside space so even if you gave us a full scholarship to Sidwell that came with transportation we'd have to move eventually
2) Given lack of a viable middle school option, I don't want to buy another place in Shaw/Logan even though I love it. If we already had a big enough house we might try to stick it out and see if we got into Latin or if another viable middle school option developed, but I'm not spending a lot of money to move only to maybe have to move again to avoid sending an 11 year old to Cardozo.
3) While we could move to upper northwest now, then we'd likely miss out on two years of pre-school that we are paying for with tax dollars, not to mention leaving our walkable/short commute neighborhood before we absolutely have to. Also, this way we can play the lottery for a few more years and if we happen to luck into a HRCS that is viable through middle school, we can buy a bigger place in Shaw.
4) While in theory we could stay at out elementary school through 5th grade and then buy a bigger place, realistically we need/want more space and don't want to wait another 6 years to get it. So it really doesn't have much to do with the quality of 1-5th grades at our neighborhood school specifically.