Anonymous
07/23/2014 06:05
Subject: Joke taken out of context
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. Apparently no one here has ever worked in advertising and everyone here has a stick up his/her ass. I agree you husband was a fool for getting stuck in the situation, but it doesn't really sound like a big deal to me based on the situation.
What, you think that last bastion of good old boy 1950's locker room activity needs to be protected? Sorry, but you need to grow up and realize that the world is a different place than it was 50 years ago and that type of behavior is no longer appropriate.
Maybe all it will take is firing some of the older white males who just can't seem to realize that they can't sit on white privilege and make everyone else take it. It would be a good start.
For the record, I'm female. And I think there's a line between harassment and having fun with your friends. Obviously somehow he crossed her lines without knowing it and I guess that's wrong, but where's the line between joking with friends and being careful of every communication with a co worker. He was continuing on a stupid joke from earlier in the day, not threatening to fire her if she didn't sleep with him. No one should feel threatened or uncomfortable in their workplace, but everyone doesn't have to be hypersensitive all the time either. I've had issues with co-workers before and because they were obviously well intentioned, nice and a bit retro, it was easily sorted out with a 2 minute face to face discussion.
Say and do whatever you want with your friends. In the workplace, different rules and laws apply.
OP's husband created a hostile workplace by legal definition. It is not ok to do what he and his colleagues did. They all need training.
As someone who works in journalism, this isn't remotely a hostile environment. Complainer wasn't "harassed."
The employment lawyer up thread disagrees with you.
Not sure how being a journalist is relevant.
Journalist, harassment is a legal term that doesn't revolve around what you call "harassment."
This is from the EEOC website:
Sexual Harassment
It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.
Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general.
Both victim and the harasser can be either a woman or a man, and the victim and harasser can be the same sex.
Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).
The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client or customer.
Anonymous
07/22/2014 23:34
Subject: Joke taken out of context
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. Apparently no one here has ever worked in advertising and everyone here has a stick up his/her ass. I agree you husband was a fool for getting stuck in the situation, but it doesn't really sound like a big deal to me based on the situation.
What, you think that last bastion of good old boy 1950's locker room activity needs to be protected? Sorry, but you need to grow up and realize that the world is a different place than it was 50 years ago and that type of behavior is no longer appropriate.
Maybe all it will take is firing some of the older white males who just can't seem to realize that they can't sit on white privilege and make everyone else take it. It would be a good start.
For the record, I'm female. And I think there's a line between harassment and having fun with your friends. Obviously somehow he crossed her lines without knowing it and I guess that's wrong, but where's the line between joking with friends and being careful of every communication with a co worker. He was continuing on a stupid joke from earlier in the day, not threatening to fire her if she didn't sleep with him. No one should feel threatened or uncomfortable in their workplace, but everyone doesn't have to be hypersensitive all the time either. I've had issues with co-workers before and because they were obviously well intentioned, nice and a bit retro, it was easily sorted out with a 2 minute face to face discussion.
Say and do whatever you want with your friends. In the workplace, different rules and laws apply.
OP's husband created a hostile workplace by legal definition. It is not ok to do what he and his colleagues did. They all need training.
As someone who works in journalism, this isn't remotely a hostile environment. Complainer wasn't "harassed."
The employment lawyer up thread disagrees with you.
Not sure how being a journalist is relevant.
Anonymous
07/22/2014 20:15
Subject: Re:Joke taken out of context
Stupid people shouldn't be in the workforce. Stay home and do your stupid shit there.
Anonymous
07/22/2014 17:03
Subject: Joke taken out of context
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. Apparently no one here has ever worked in advertising and everyone here has a stick up his/her ass. I agree you husband was a fool for getting stuck in the situation, but it doesn't really sound like a big deal to me based on the situation.
Uhhh..he asked a co-worker for nudes. LOL Not a big deal? LOL
NO HE DIDNT (I'm not OP or PP). I swear, people can't read.
You are right....he asked a colleague if she had any nude pics of the person they were hiring! Makes it so much better and more excusable.
Again, I'm not OP or PP, and the comment was stupid and immature, but he was obviously joking and not asking for actual pics. Do people really not get that?
I am not at all surprised that the woman didnt say anything directly to him (referring to OPs comment), and just because it's a joke doesn't mean its OK to say.
When I was young and new to the office environment, I was filing in a file cabinet that was very low to the ground. A much older, more senior male colleague "joked" about me being "on my knees, where a woman belongs". I half laughed at his comment because I was 20 and it took me totally by surprise, but I did go directly to HR and his supervisor. It made me so uncomfortable and was incredibly inappropriate. I actually have no idea what happened to him or what the consequences were, but the company took it very seriously as a sexual harassment case, even if he was "clearly joking and not asking me to actually give him a blow job".
not even close to the same thing. what you are describing is clearly harassment. what OP's husband did is not.
Bullpuckeys. Op's husband made an inappropriate sexual comment, and should be held accountable.
I don't know how to make it clearer. Tell me if you see the difference between these two situations:
a) Office discussion of how crazy it is that people send nude pics with job applications. Person A sends Person B a question about an applicant. Person B says "are there any nude pics? You know, like that crazy situation we were laughing about? Can you believe people do that?"
b) Male colleague asks female colleague for nude pics of herself.
c) Senior male colleague making comment about female intern on her knees "where women belong."
It seems that a) is closest to what happened.
obviously I meant 3 situations. The top one is inappropriate, sure. The bottom two are harassment.
Right, but pretend for a minute that the female coworker wasnt part of that conversation (maybe OP's husband thought she was and she wasn't really there, who knows) and the comment really was "Got any nude picks? oops wrong convo! lol jkjk" you can see how the female coworker took it more like (b) than like (a) (not knowing that he was referencing a previous conversation) and thought he was really asking for nude picks of an applicant. Then she would be uncomfortable, not confront him, and go straight to HR. It was inappropriate, and to the person the comment was directed at, could have been seen/ taken as harassment. If that was the case, I would still fault OPs husband, and not the woman who turned him in.
if she thought that's what he meant, sure, she'd be correct to turn him in. but that doesn't mean that her interpretation is correct or is what he intended.
i suspect this is what happened - she thought HE was asking HER for nude pics. stupid of him to speak colloquially like that? yes. but he wasn't harassing her if his intention was similar to that in scenario a) above.
Anonymous
07/22/2014 16:48
Subject: Joke taken out of context
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. Apparently no one here has ever worked in advertising and everyone here has a stick up his/her ass. I agree you husband was a fool for getting stuck in the situation, but it doesn't really sound like a big deal to me based on the situation.
Uhhh..he asked a co-worker for nudes. LOL Not a big deal? LOL
NO HE DIDNT (I'm not OP or PP). I swear, people can't read.
You are right....he asked a colleague if she had any nude pics of the person they were hiring! Makes it so much better and more excusable.
Again, I'm not OP or PP, and the comment was stupid and immature, but he was obviously joking and not asking for actual pics. Do people really not get that?
I am not at all surprised that the woman didnt say anything directly to him (referring to OPs comment), and just because it's a joke doesn't mean its OK to say.
When I was young and new to the office environment, I was filing in a file cabinet that was very low to the ground. A much older, more senior male colleague "joked" about me being "on my knees, where a woman belongs". I half laughed at his comment because I was 20 and it took me totally by surprise, but I did go directly to HR and his supervisor. It made me so uncomfortable and was incredibly inappropriate. I actually have no idea what happened to him or what the consequences were, but the company took it very seriously as a sexual harassment case, even if he was "clearly joking and not asking me to actually give him a blow job".
not even close to the same thing. what you are describing is clearly harassment. what OP's husband did is not.
Bullpuckeys. Op's husband made an inappropriate sexual comment, and should be held accountable.
I don't know how to make it clearer. Tell me if you see the difference between these two situations:
a) Office discussion of how crazy it is that people send nude pics with job applications. Person A sends Person B a question about an applicant. Person B says "are there any nude pics? You know, like that crazy situation we were laughing about? Can you believe people do that?"
b) Male colleague asks female colleague for nude pics of herself.
c) Senior male colleague making comment about female intern on her knees "where women belong."
It seems that a) is closest to what happened.
obviously I meant 3 situations. The top one is inappropriate, sure. The bottom two are harassment.
Right, but pretend for a minute that the female coworker wasnt part of that conversation (maybe OP's husband thought she was and she wasn't really there, who knows) and the comment really was "Got any nude picks? oops wrong convo! lol jkjk" you can see how the female coworker took it more like (b) than like (a) (not knowing that he was referencing a previous conversation) and thought he was really asking for nude picks of an applicant. Then she would be uncomfortable, not confront him, and go straight to HR. It was inappropriate, and to the person the comment was directed at, could have been seen/ taken as harassment. If that was the case, I would still fault OPs husband, and not the woman who turned him in.
Anonymous
07/22/2014 16:44
Subject: Re:Joke taken out of context
OP, from a practical standpoint it depends on whether your husband is well regarded in terms of work, etc. If he is he will get by with a slap on the wrist, mandatory sensitivity training etc. If he is not, this may be used as an excuse to terminate him. This is the way it works in reality.
A few years ago, I had a female employee in my department who was on the phone with someone and as she ended the call - a call that obviously involved something that irritated/upset her - she said, "he can kiss my ass". Another male employee who was not liked was passing by, overheard her and said "I'd love to do that".
She reported it to her supervisor who brought it to my attention. The male employee was less than satisfactory at his work and not a particularly nice person . This incident provided me with sufficient reason to terminate him after consulting HR and the Legal department. He was escorted out at the end of the work day and given severance.
If the employee were a good worker or well regarded, I'd have handled it differently and probably just reprimanded him and sent him for some form of counseling.
So, I agree with those who say that what your husband did is not of itself grounds for termination but how they choose to proceed is to some extent a function of how he is regarded as an employee.
The only other thing that would possibly affect the outcome is if the company where your husband works has an issue with sexual harassment they may have less flexibility and feel a need to take strong action.
A few years ago, I had a female employee in my department who was on the phone with someone and as she ended the call - a call that obviously involved something that irritated/upset her - she said, "he can kiss my ass". Another male employee who was not liked was passing by, overheard her and said "I'd love to do that".
She reported it to her supervisor who brought it to my attention. The male employee was less than satisfactory at his work and not a particularly nice person . This incident provided me with sufficient reason to terminate him after consulting HR and the Legal department. He was escorted out at the end of the work day and given severance.
If the employee were a good worker or well regarded, I'd have handled it differently and probably just reprimanded him and sent him for some form of counseling.
So, I agree with those who say that what your husband did is not of itself grounds for termination but how they choose to proceed is to some extent a function of how he is regarded as an employee.
The only other thing that would possibly affect the outcome is if the company where your husband works has an issue with sexual harassment they may have less flexibility and feel a need to take strong action.
Anonymous
07/22/2014 16:20
Subject: Joke taken out of context
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. Apparently no one here has ever worked in advertising and everyone here has a stick up his/her ass. I agree you husband was a fool for getting stuck in the situation, but it doesn't really sound like a big deal to me based on the situation.
Uhhh..he asked a co-worker for nudes. LOL Not a big deal? LOL
NO HE DIDNT (I'm not OP or PP). I swear, people can't read.
You are right....he asked a colleague if she had any nude pics of the person they were hiring! Makes it so much better and more excusable.
Again, I'm not OP or PP, and the comment was stupid and immature, but he was obviously joking and not asking for actual pics. Do people really not get that?
I am not at all surprised that the woman didnt say anything directly to him (referring to OPs comment), and just because it's a joke doesn't mean its OK to say.
When I was young and new to the office environment, I was filing in a file cabinet that was very low to the ground. A much older, more senior male colleague "joked" about me being "on my knees, where a woman belongs". I half laughed at his comment because I was 20 and it took me totally by surprise, but I did go directly to HR and his supervisor. It made me so uncomfortable and was incredibly inappropriate. I actually have no idea what happened to him or what the consequences were, but the company took it very seriously as a sexual harassment case, even if he was "clearly joking and not asking me to actually give him a blow job".
not even close to the same thing. what you are describing is clearly harassment. what OP's husband did is not.
Bullpuckeys. Op's husband made an inappropriate sexual comment, and should be held accountable.
I don't know how to make it clearer. Tell me if you see the difference between these two situations:
a) Office discussion of how crazy it is that people send nude pics with job applications. Person A sends Person B a question about an applicant. Person B says "are there any nude pics? You know, like that crazy situation we were laughing about? Can you believe people do that?"
b) Male colleague asks female colleague for nude pics of herself.
c) Senior male colleague making comment about female intern on her knees "where women belong."
It seems that a) is closest to what happened.
obviously I meant 3 situations. The top one is inappropriate, sure. The bottom two are harassment.
Anonymous
07/22/2014 16:19
Subject: Joke taken out of context
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. Apparently no one here has ever worked in advertising and everyone here has a stick up his/her ass. I agree you husband was a fool for getting stuck in the situation, but it doesn't really sound like a big deal to me based on the situation.
Uhhh..he asked a co-worker for nudes. LOL Not a big deal? LOL
NO HE DIDNT (I'm not OP or PP). I swear, people can't read.
You are right....he asked a colleague if she had any nude pics of the person they were hiring! Makes it so much better and more excusable.
Again, I'm not OP or PP, and the comment was stupid and immature, but he was obviously joking and not asking for actual pics. Do people really not get that?
I am not at all surprised that the woman didnt say anything directly to him (referring to OPs comment), and just because it's a joke doesn't mean its OK to say.
When I was young and new to the office environment, I was filing in a file cabinet that was very low to the ground. A much older, more senior male colleague "joked" about me being "on my knees, where a woman belongs". I half laughed at his comment because I was 20 and it took me totally by surprise, but I did go directly to HR and his supervisor. It made me so uncomfortable and was incredibly inappropriate. I actually have no idea what happened to him or what the consequences were, but the company took it very seriously as a sexual harassment case, even if he was "clearly joking and not asking me to actually give him a blow job".
not even close to the same thing. what you are describing is clearly harassment. what OP's husband did is not.
Bullpuckeys. Op's husband made an inappropriate sexual comment, and should be held accountable.
I don't know how to make it clearer. Tell me if you see the difference between these two situations:
a) Office discussion of how crazy it is that people send nude pics with job applications. Person A sends Person B a question about an applicant. Person B says "are there any nude pics? You know, like that crazy situation we were laughing about? Can you believe people do that?"
b) Male colleague asks female colleague for nude pics of herself.
c) Senior male colleague making comment about female intern on her knees "where women belong."
It seems that a) is closest to what happened.
Anonymous
07/22/2014 16:12
Subject: Joke taken out of context
this thread just reinforces my hatred of HR drones.
Anonymous
07/22/2014 16:04
Subject: Joke taken out of context
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. Apparently no one here has ever worked in advertising and everyone here has a stick up his/her ass. I agree you husband was a fool for getting stuck in the situation, but it doesn't really sound like a big deal to me based on the situation.
What, you think that last bastion of good old boy 1950's locker room activity needs to be protected? Sorry, but you need to grow up and realize that the world is a different place than it was 50 years ago and that type of behavior is no longer appropriate.
Maybe all it will take is firing some of the older white males who just can't seem to realize that they can't sit on white privilege and make everyone else take it. It would be a good start.
For the record, I'm female. And I think there's a line between harassment and having fun with your friends. Obviously somehow he crossed her lines without knowing it and I guess that's wrong, but where's the line between joking with friends and being careful of every communication with a co worker. He was continuing on a stupid joke from earlier in the day, not threatening to fire her if she didn't sleep with him. No one should feel threatened or uncomfortable in their workplace, but everyone doesn't have to be hypersensitive all the time either. I've had issues with co-workers before and because they were obviously well intentioned, nice and a bit retro, it was easily sorted out with a 2 minute face to face discussion.
Say and do whatever you want with your friends. In the workplace, different rules and laws apply.
OP's husband created a hostile workplace by legal definition. It is not ok to do what he and his colleagues did. They all need training.
As someone who works in journalism, this isn't remotely a hostile environment. Complainer wasn't "harassed."
You don't understand what sexual harassment is. Really.
Anonymous
07/22/2014 15:50
Subject: Joke taken out of context
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. Apparently no one here has ever worked in advertising and everyone here has a stick up his/her ass. I agree you husband was a fool for getting stuck in the situation, but it doesn't really sound like a big deal to me based on the situation.
Uhhh..he asked a co-worker for nudes. LOL Not a big deal? LOL
NO HE DIDNT (I'm not OP or PP). I swear, people can't read.
You are right....he asked a colleague if she had any nude pics of the person they were hiring! Makes it so much better and more excusable.
Again, I'm not OP or PP, and the comment was stupid and immature, but he was obviously joking and not asking for actual pics. Do people really not get that?
I am not at all surprised that the woman didnt say anything directly to him (referring to OPs comment), and just because it's a joke doesn't mean its OK to say.
When I was young and new to the office environment, I was filing in a file cabinet that was very low to the ground. A much older, more senior male colleague "joked" about me being "on my knees, where a woman belongs". I half laughed at his comment because I was 20 and it took me totally by surprise, but I did go directly to HR and his supervisor. It made me so uncomfortable and was incredibly inappropriate. I actually have no idea what happened to him or what the consequences were, but the company took it very seriously as a sexual harassment case, even if he was "clearly joking and not asking me to actually give him a blow job".
not even close to the same thing. what you are describing is clearly harassment. what OP's husband did is not.
Bullpuckeys. Op's husband made an inappropriate sexual comment, and should be held accountable.
Anonymous
07/22/2014 15:48
Subject: Joke taken out of context
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. Apparently no one here has ever worked in advertising and everyone here has a stick up his/her ass. I agree you husband was a fool for getting stuck in the situation, but it doesn't really sound like a big deal to me based on the situation.
What, you think that last bastion of good old boy 1950's locker room activity needs to be protected? Sorry, but you need to grow up and realize that the world is a different place than it was 50 years ago and that type of behavior is no longer appropriate.
Maybe all it will take is firing some of the older white males who just can't seem to realize that they can't sit on white privilege and make everyone else take it. It would be a good start.
For the record, I'm female. And I think there's a line between harassment and having fun with your friends. Obviously somehow he crossed her lines without knowing it and I guess that's wrong, but where's the line between joking with friends and being careful of every communication with a co worker. He was continuing on a stupid joke from earlier in the day, not threatening to fire her if she didn't sleep with him. No one should feel threatened or uncomfortable in their workplace, but everyone doesn't have to be hypersensitive all the time either. I've had issues with co-workers before and because they were obviously well intentioned, nice and a bit retro, it was easily sorted out with a 2 minute face to face discussion.
Say and do whatever you want with your friends. In the workplace, different rules and laws apply.
OP's husband created a hostile workplace by legal definition. It is not ok to do what he and his colleagues did. They all need training.
As someone who works in journalism, this isn't remotely a hostile environment. Complainer wasn't "harassed."
Anonymous
07/22/2014 15:42
Subject: Joke taken out of context
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. Apparently no one here has ever worked in advertising and everyone here has a stick up his/her ass. I agree you husband was a fool for getting stuck in the situation, but it doesn't really sound like a big deal to me based on the situation.
Uhhh..he asked a co-worker for nudes. LOL Not a big deal? LOL
NO HE DIDNT (I'm not OP or PP). I swear, people can't read.
You are right....he asked a colleague if she had any nude pics of the person they were hiring! Makes it so much better and more excusable.
Again, I'm not OP or PP, and the comment was stupid and immature, but he was obviously joking and not asking for actual pics. Do people really not get that?
I am not at all surprised that the woman didnt say anything directly to him (referring to OPs comment), and just because it's a joke doesn't mean its OK to say.
When I was young and new to the office environment, I was filing in a file cabinet that was very low to the ground. A much older, more senior male colleague "joked" about me being "on my knees, where a woman belongs". I half laughed at his comment because I was 20 and it took me totally by surprise, but I did go directly to HR and his supervisor. It made me so uncomfortable and was incredibly inappropriate. I actually have no idea what happened to him or what the consequences were, but the company took it very seriously as a sexual harassment case, even if he was "clearly joking and not asking me to actually give him a blow job".
not even close to the same thing. what you are describing is clearly harassment. what OP's husband did is not.
Anonymous
07/22/2014 15:41
Subject: Joke taken out of context
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Wow. Apparently no one here has ever worked in advertising and everyone here has a stick up his/her ass. I agree you husband was a fool for getting stuck in the situation, but it doesn't really sound like a big deal to me based on the situation.
Uhhh..he asked a co-worker for nudes. LOL Not a big deal? LOL
NO HE DIDNT (I'm not OP or PP). I swear, people can't read.
You are right....he asked a colleague if she had any nude pics of the person they were hiring! Makes it so much better and more excusable.
Again, I'm not OP or PP, and the comment was stupid and immature, but he was obviously joking and not asking for actual pics. Do people really not get that?
I am not at all surprised that the woman didnt say anything directly to him (referring to OPs comment), and just because it's a joke doesn't mean its OK to say.
When I was young and new to the office environment, I was filing in a file cabinet that was very low to the ground. A much older, more senior male colleague "joked" about me being "on my knees, where a woman belongs". I half laughed at his comment because I was 20 and it took me totally by surprise, but I did go directly to HR and his supervisor. It made me so uncomfortable and was incredibly inappropriate. I actually have no idea what happened to him or what the consequences were, but the company took it very seriously as a sexual harassment case, even if he was "clearly joking and not asking me to actually give him a blow job".
Anonymous
07/22/2014 15:40
Subject: Re:Joke taken out of context
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Kind of a set up. Everyone was doing it but one got caught. He needs to go over to HR right away and get this straightened out. I do hope he has a good reputation otherwise.
Uh, what is there to straighten out? Sounds like it was only OP's husband who harassed the woman who complained about their encounter.
He sent a one line "joke" asking if the applicant had sent nude pics. Since we have applicants who do that, I hardly think that is harassment.