Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 21:19     Subject: Re:Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
I don't see the issue as about religion. I see it as what kind of behavior are you willing to tolerate. It doesn't matter what OP's religious beliefs are, she she remain silent while MIL disparages groups of people that are different from her. For 'Christian', substitute 'black', 'Asian', 'Jew' or 'girls'. Does it change the acceptability of the statement?

FWIW, I don't believe I need to communicate what my religious beliefs are with anyone other than my DH. As so notably posited by theologian Roger Williams, you can't compel a person to believe. Their conscience is their own. I shouldn't feel or be compelled to share my conscience but should, instead, in words and deed live a moral life. If OP's MIL doesn't believe atheists (or blacks, Jews, girls) can be moral people, OP should argue the ridiculous of that statement. OP's own religious views are irrelevant to the argument.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 21:06     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
I'm a lifelong Catholic and have belonged to parishes throughout the U.S. and in multiple foreign countries (both industrialized and "third world"). Never in four decades have I ever heard any priest preach along the lines that anyone not Catholic is going to hell. I must just be lucky because I keep reading about these hateful homilies on DCUM even though I never encounter them in real life.


I'm not Cathoilc but when I was growing up would sometimes attend Catholic services when having sleep overs at girlfriends' houses. I don't ever recall being uncomfortable at masses then. However, I've attend a number of masses at St. Louis in Alexandria (DH's family belongs to that church) and distinctly remember being uncomfortable with the judgment being pronounced on non-Catholics. I also distinctly recall the same message being communicated to us when we were planning our wedding. DH asked that I consider being married there and I agreed to meet with a priest from there. The priest flat out told me my beliefs were incorrect and implied my salvation was at stake. It was so bad that it was DH who said he wouldn't consider getting married in the Catholic church.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 19:12     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I want to clarify a couple things. I do not care that she is religious and have zero intent to change her beliefs. She is the type to judge others based on her belief system. I have yet to say a single word of opposition to her. Obviously religion will be brought up with children. She knows we are having a non-religious ceremony. My partner doesn't share my beliefs, but is not a religious person himself. We are content with each other's beliefs and how to raise our children. We are in our 30's and 40's and I am not concerned that we will have any issues with each other moving forward.

My question remains the same. If, and only if, she makes a rude remark regarding the morals, for example, of a non-believer, do I kindly say something? I could possibly say, "Well, I don't hold any beliefs in a higher power, yet I have a stong belief in doing the right thing. In fact, my morals line up very similarly to your sons." I would leave it at that. That is just an example. I am not looking for trouble. If she said gay people were going to hell, I would not respond even though I disagree on so many levels. Hopefully this will never be am issue, but I am simply questioning what to do IF it ever is.


But obviously, so are you OP.

Can't you see the irony?
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 18:02     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
OP seems like the atheist version of the believers she seems to have a hard time with. Stop itching for a fight.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 17:37     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:NP. My MIL is a devout Catholic. My DH is pretty much disinterested in religion at this point; he joined my (Protestant) church at one point but hasn't attended in years. He might want to investigate Buddhism if he ever gets the urge to revisit religion. We never discuss/debate religion with my in-laws.

But it hurts my daughter when her grandmother says thoughtless things or when my daughter attends her grandparents' church to be respectful (when we visit them) and then the priest preaches something that seems very exclusionary, implying that Catholicism is the only route to salvation and anyone not Catholic is headed for hell.

I'm just mentioning this because even if you take the nod-and-smile approach or even if the MIL never says something blatantly judgmental, such as questioning the morals of a non-believer, you could still run into some tense times in the future.

I pretty much agree with the PP who said that being a non-believer is one thing, but keeping one's atheism a secret is another thing that is more distancing and would contribute to a loss of trust. I also agree with those who suggest that it might be best for your fiance to have a frank talk with his mother about his and your positions. If in general he is an avoider and you are a speak-upper, that in itself could cause problems in your future, and it might be good to discuss that now too or see if you can agree on an approach that is somewhere in the middle.


I'm a lifelong Catholic and have belonged to parishes throughout the U.S. and in multiple foreign countries (both industrialized and "third world"). Never in four decades have I ever heard any priest preach along the lines that anyone not Catholic is going to hell. I must just be lucky because I keep reading about these hateful homilies on DCUM even though I never encounter them in real life.


OP here. I have encountered them with my grandmother. That was the beginning of the end for me.


Sounds like something is wrong with your grandmother.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 17:34     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:smile and nod. As a very religious person myself I would never allow my child to marry or be a non beliver. I would make your life HELL if I knew you didnt believe and you were going to marry my son.


If heaven is filled with people like you I'll take my chances in hell.

I think u responded to a troll


+1. There's definitely a troll who likes to pretend s/he's an insufferable Christian.

I'm no troll these are my true beliefs. Kill them all and let God sort it out.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 16:15     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?

Americans seem to disparage atheists all the time. For me it's just another category.

So I would advise you not to say anything at all.
DH is a scientist and an atheist. I am a scientist and was raised Catholic, went to a Protestant school and have Buddhist forebears (plus a Jewish great grandmother somewhere in the mix). I have no idea what I believe!

Except that it's SO not a big deal to me.

So mum's the word.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 15:51     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:smile and nod. As a very religious person myself I would never allow my child to marry or be a non beliver. I would make your life HELL if I knew you didnt believe and you were going to marry my son.


If heaven is filled with people like you I'll take my chances in hell.

I think u responded to a troll


+1. There's definitely a troll who likes to pretend s/he's an insufferable Christian.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 15:13     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:smile and nod. As a very religious person myself I would never allow my child to marry or be a non beliver. I would make your life HELL if I knew you didnt believe and you were going to marry my son.


If heaven is filled with people like you I'll take my chances in hell.

I think u responded to a troll
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 15:09     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
You need to make sure you are on the same page with your partner regarding children!!

Future in-laws may freak out if you decide to raise your child atheist, and you partner may want to baptize them etc, to appease the parents. Definitely discuss how you expect your children to be raised BEFOREHAND.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 14:29     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
Anonymous wrote:
OP here. I am far from begging for a fight. She makes religious comments all the time, to each their own! She is also quite condescending and rude. If she never says anything, great! She knows I don't share her beliefs and I'm sure it will be a discussion when children enter the picture. IF she makes a remark about lack of morals or something like that, would it be appropriate to respond, in a kind and gentle way?[/quote]

Yes, of course.

Was that it? Why did you start this thread again, unless you were looking for permission to start a fight with MIL?
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 14:26     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As much as I'd prefer my children not marry unbelievers, I'd be more upset if I was unaware that their partner was an atheist. I think that's grounds for future mistrust.


OP here. These are exactly the type of assumptions about non-believers that I am talking about. Could you please explain in more detail what you mean.


Not that PP, but that isn't an "assumption about non-believers." It's a statement about hiding or lying about anything in your life, of which belief/non-belief is one example, but other examples could include bankruptcy, a previous marriage, you name it. I read that as a simple statement that deceptions of any kind damage trust.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 14:20     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
This seems fairly obvious. If she's the first to provoke, then you respond in a calm manner and try to keep emotions down. She's acting badly, but you can rise above it while remaining constant to your own non-belief. So, if she makes a rude remark about the morals of non-believers (has she actually ever done this?) then you respond just as you suggested: calmly, patiently. You are the better person here.

My concern is that you will be the first to provoke, given your statement above, that you think "people should stand up against harmful beliefs." This suggests (1) you think religion is harmful ipso facto, i.e. you are intolerant yourself, leading to (2) you have a fast trigger concerning any mention of God or a suggestion to pray over dinner, winding up at (3) you will "stand up" for your beliefs by making a scene instead of, I dunno, thinking quiet thoughts during the dinner prayer. I worry about this combination of your intolerance and your suggestion that confrontation is always justified.

Frankly, if you guys are having a civil cermony and your parner doesn't practice, she must suspect your positions anyway.
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 09:08     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I want to clarify a couple things. I do not care that she is religious and have zero intent to change her beliefs. She is the type to judge others based on her belief system. I have yet to say a single word of opposition to her. Obviously religion will be brought up with children. She knows we are having a non-religious ceremony. My partner doesn't share my beliefs, but is not a religious person himself. We are content with each other's beliefs and how to raise our children. We are in our 30's and 40's and I am not concerned that we will have any issues with each other moving forward.

My question remains the same. If, and only if, she makes a rude remark regarding the morals, for example, of a non-believer, do I kindly say something? I could possibly say, "Well, I don't hold any beliefs in a higher power, yet I have a stong belief in doing the right thing. In fact, my morals line up very similarly to your sons." I would leave it at that. That is just an example. I am not looking for trouble. If she said gay people were going to hell, I would not respond even though I disagree on so many levels. Hopefully this will never be am issue, but I am simply questioning what to do IF it ever is.


So you would stand up for yourself, but not for others? Not so impressive. Personally, I wouldn't "out" myself in that situation. I would say, "Mary, I don't think it's true that atheists have no morals. I personally know many who are honest, kind, good people with a strong moral code. I don't think it's right to make assumptions about people like that." Of course, I'm not gay, but I would also respond if she said that gay people were going to hell. "Mary, that's an awful thing to say. I have friends who are gay, who have shown me great kindness when I needed it. Plus, I'm pretty sure the Bible says 'judge not, lest ye be judged."
Anonymous
Post 07/11/2014 08:54     Subject: Tell future MIL I'm an atheist?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:NP. My MIL is a devout Catholic. My DH is pretty much disinterested in religion at this point; he joined my (Protestant) church at one point but hasn't attended in years. He might want to investigate Buddhism if he ever gets the urge to revisit religion. We never discuss/debate religion with my in-laws.

But it hurts my daughter when her grandmother says thoughtless things or when my daughter attends her grandparents' church to be respectful (when we visit them) and then the priest preaches something that seems very exclusionary, implying that Catholicism is the only route to salvation and anyone not Catholic is headed for hell.

I'm just mentioning this because even if you take the nod-and-smile approach or even if the MIL never says something blatantly judgmental, such as questioning the morals of a non-believer, you could still run into some tense times in the future.

I pretty much agree with the PP who said that being a non-believer is one thing, but keeping one's atheism a secret is another thing that is more distancing and would contribute to a loss of trust. I also agree with those who suggest that it might be best for your fiance to have a frank talk with his mother about his and your positions. If in general he is an avoider and you are a speak-upper, that in itself could cause problems in your future, and it might be good to discuss that now too or see if you can agree on an approach that is somewhere in the middle.


OP here. This is a helpful post. I will certainly allow the concept of religion into my child's life, but would not allow hateful people to attempt indoctrination, no matter who is on the other side. I have already had a small issue with future MIL and my partner backed me 100%. She was angry that he couldn't come visit her at the last minute and she somehow decided it was my fault, even though I have tried to build those bonds between them as well as her and I. My partner is not too close with his mother, so I do not worry about her coming between us.



Sounds like she has more issues than just being a zealot. Try viewing her as someone who is not well. Whenever she starts to act like a mental patient, remind yourself, "This is not a well woman." Other than that, your bigger issue is whether your husband agrees with this, that his mother isn't operating with a full deck. Does she do much to live her life as a good Christian, volunteering to help the poor, raise money for a sick child, collect food for the local pantry? Or is her sole mission in live trying to ensure that everyone in her family is on the same page as her when it comes to religion? I ask this as someone with very Catholic parents who love to talk about how wonderful Catholicism is but do very little to make the world a better place. Very nice they attend mass but who cares-- it's easy to follow a routine-- anyone can show up at a building at the right time every Sunday and recite-- a lot harder to actually give of yourself and make the world a better place.