My children come first. If taking him in negatively impacted my family, I would not do it. Based on the info you've given, he'd likely stay without an end in sight.

Agree with all the PPs that you cannot take in your brother and his family. As far as his behavior, I recognize a lot of it from my brothers and my mother. It's a long tragic taie but long story short, I know understand why they were the way they were. After my own boys (and DH) were diagnosed with ADHD/depression and I learned the many ways in which they could express themselves, I finally understood why my brothers were such under-achievers. I was shocked when it was suggested my boys might have ADHD because they didn't 'look' like what I thought it was. But, their inability to plan/organize, lack of initiative, foresight and ability to delay gratification are classic. For the first 40 years of my life, I couldn't understand why I turned out so different from them. The only think I could figure was I was more willing to sacrifice and work harder. I was wrong. They are willing to sacrifice and work hard but what comes so naturally and easily to me does not to them. They not only have to be taught these things, they have to learn it repeatedly and have it ingrained in them. Instead of bailing my brothers out, my mother should have helped them identify long term goals and break them out into the small steps needed to achieve them.

Whatever your brother's issues are, he definitely need assistance with that sort of thing. Focusing on the larger goals will only intimidate and overwhelm him. The long term goal is to keep his family intact. The short term solution may involve splitting them up. But, you should not do anything that jeopardizes your own stability. Hugs.

Anonymous wrote:OP: No to brother & family moving in. NO to giving brother ANY more money. Your brother needs to man-up and you need to show him the tough-love he has needed for years. Do not back down, OP. Your brother has to learn to stand on his own two feet. That's the greatest gift you can give him.

Yes yes and YES! And also NO to taking in his kids without him (someone above suggested that I think). You are in their lives, trying to be supportive, but if you are struggling now to support the kids you have, taking his kids in sounds like it will still interfere with your work and raise your costs beyond your ability.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why doesn't your mother take them in or pay their rent?

How many kids do you have and how many does he have? If you knew it would be short-term, I could see doubling up all the kids and getting an air mattress. But it sounds like there'd be no end in sight. And if it truly requires you to give up your income source, then how is that good for anyone if you can't pay your rent/mortgage or grocery bill.

I feel bad for his kids. He sounds like a real loser. The grandparents should step up, not you.

She cannot because her husband won't allow it. not sure about the financial situation with her. There would be five young kids plus teenagers. would rather not say how many each of us has because i think it could be an identifying detail. And no end in sight that is correct. I could not handle it! And yes my income source would be compromised to the point that i would have to give it up. so of course i don't want that to happen. I worked literally to the bone (broke two fingers setting up my work space, taped them up and kept going!). It FLOORS me that my mother cannot be supportive of my commitment and determination to take care of my own children ... At least this is how it seems.

Aside from the other advice you've gotten (and I agree with) to focus on what your own family needs and not take him in, my advice for dealing with your mother is this: EVERY.SINGLE.TIME she suggests you take him in, lay out in a simple way the impact it would have on your work, what that would mean for your family, and how exactly she specifically sees that not being a problem? I would say "Mom, if you can't tell me how I would be able to work and take care of my own family with him here, then you need to stop suggesting it because it's unrealistic. You are his mom, you take him in, you seem to have much fewer obstacles (a smart husband who knows better!) than I do (my own family, struggles, stress, and a home-based business)."

Seriously, I find the best way to shut people up who are being unfair and unrealistic is to point out the problem at hand, the impact on me or others if we do the crazy thing they want us to do, and then I ask "What are you saying would prevent the bad thing from happening in this case, and how can you guarantee that will be so?" They can almost never answer, and I say "You can't tell me how it would work so stop telling me I should do something that you aren't even willing to do yourself. It is unfair, unrealistic, and doesn't help the person who is really having the crisis get any closer to a short or long-term resolution".

Your mom should take him in and if she can't, she needs to stop telling others they must.

The brother's wife is mentally unstable and is not currently with him and the kids - this has been the case on and off for a little over a year. Very sad yes and not brother's fault. In all honesty though their shaky situation (not being able to manage financially) was not brought on by her. There was no point in time when they were making ends meet, even before kids came along. So her being out of the picture has made a bad situation worse but it did not create the situation by any means.
I do still want to help him and the kids - not by taking them
in since this is clearly not an option. I would like to help them get to a more stable place by helping him figure out what h needs to do to make things work. Enabling him to continue flailing around? No way. Caring about him and the kids enough to help put an end to that? Yes.

Maybe I missed this part, OP, but where is the wife? You said she was out of the picture. Are the kids with her or your brother?

Anonymous wrote:OP here. He is healthy, no physical issues. But he is stressed - understandably - having a tough time coping and seems to have trouble making decisions to improve the situation. My mother is also very upset and now i think being a bit irrational. I agree she has contributed to the problems by enabling him in many ways. She means well. She does not "get it." Or maybe just sees things differently i don't know. I haven't walked in her shoes. She is mostly hands-off with me - often unpleasant to me in fact - while still treating brother like a young child.

OP, I have lived with this situation my entire life. I have a brother who sounds like yours and an enabling mother. The only difference is my mother has supported his unrealistic and unsustainable lifestyle all his life -- bought every property he has lived in and expensive cars and toys to prop him up -- and in return he has done nothing to better his life or gain independence. It is a sick co-dependency and I made the decision to walk away. He has adult and minor children he has never looked out for but I try to be a good and responsible aunt because they are for the most part good people. Thankfully, I am financially independent with a successful career but watching this sad story play out over and over again is disturbing. One piece of advice I would give you is to always put yourself and children first. I am not going over the cliff for anyone, even family. No one will be there to rescue you and your kids need you. I empathize with what you are going through. Unfortunately, your mother will never "get it". My brother is in his 50s and mother in her 70s and it is the same broken relationship. You will need to decide to move on eventually.

Anonymous wrote:OP: No to brother & family moving in. NO to giving brother ANY more money. Your brother needs to man-up and you need to show him the tough-love he has needed for years. Do not back down, OP. Your brother has to learn to stand on his own two feet. That's the greatest gift you can give him.

Agree. And have him get a vasectomy, pronto.

OP: No to brother & family moving in. NO to giving brother ANY more money. Your brother needs to man-up and you need to show him the tough-love he has needed for years. Do not back down, OP. Your brother has to learn to stand on his own two feet. That's the greatest gift you can give him.

You cant take him in if it would negatively impact your income and your children. You have no responsibility to him. He is a grown man.

I don't think many people feel sorry for OP's brother. It's the kids that don't deserve to suffer.

Ugh I have inlaws like this, thank goodness they have no children. The wife works a minimum wage job - she's in her 50s - and her hubby is just, well, plain lazy to be honest. He will not keep a job more than a few months, either gets fired or leaves when he has to work too much for his taste. And the jobs never pay much. They've moved in with other SIL/BILs several times over the years. Last year when it happened for the umpteenth time my SIL/BILs had had enough of taking them in and said nope, sorry, can't do it anymore. They wound up staying with other in-laws and mooching off them awhile...the hubby stayed with his inlaws, the wife stayed with one of hers, for months until they could get an apartment again. I personally will not take them in. I have worked for years and years to support myself and my own family. They could support themselves if they both worked, period. He chooses not to and she is ok with it. Their decision, their choice, can't tell 'em what to do but I would just tell them no, sorry that does not work for us and we have no room for you. Nope nope nope. Now, if it was a family member with a terminal illness or disability I might feel differently and help them if I were able to do so, even temporarily. But not the adults older than I am, who choose not to work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do I keep seeing so many disfunctional relationships between mothers and sons? It's everywhere! It's the mothers crippling their son's ability to grow up and function. Why??

Not to defend the mothers, but I almost always see this in families in which the father is either absent (physically and/or emotionally) or harsh. My ex's family is this way. His dad was engaged in raising the older kids and then checked out emotionally. The older kids are mentally healthy and successful. The younger ones, including my ex, are a hot mess that mom in her 80s is still trying to rescue.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:
You have already determined that you can't take them in (and rightly so) and you should be firm about it. Stop letting your mother "guilt" you into to helping your brother. If anything, you could probably use some help yourself. Your brother has been enabled by your mom and other family members and he is expecting them to provide financial rescue once again.

Yes, it is a distressing situation but you are going to be in distress yourself if you you try to carry him when your priority should be your own family.

Be prepared to distance yourself from your enabling mom--she is going to bring out her claws on this one. State your position with no expectation of your mother's approval. And then don't engage her any further about it.

It is unrealistic to think that you can say no and still have your mother's support. Her support is going to your brother as usual.

This is dead on 100%. This is OP btw. You are absolutely correct about still having my mother's support while "not doing enough to help." This morning i looked at some housing options for them, sent the info to mom and brother and will try to offer some cash to help them situated. Not much to spare but i do feel some obligation to do what I CAN and that is what i offer. Of course it will not be enough in my mother's point of view until his problems are solved. My relationship with her is a lost cause and i need to accept that. Still will try to help brother but absolutely NOT taking them in.
as far as the mothers -enabling- sons phenom ... interesting! Sadly these mothers don't realize what they are doing. They probably think they are doing right, they cannot see how misguided their "help" is.

Anonymous wrote:Why do I keep seeing so many disfunctional relationships between mothers and sons? It's everywhere! It's the mothers crippling their son's ability to grow up and function. Why??

Not to defend the mothers, but I almost always see this in families in which the father is either absent (physically and/or emotionally) or harsh. My ex's family is this way. His dad was engaged in raising the older kids and then checked out emotionally. The older kids are mentally healthy and successful. The younger ones, including my ex, are a hot mess that mom in her 80s is still trying to rescue.