How do you know who the "truly poor" kids are in class?

Anonymous wrote:That is an over generalization pp. There are truly poor kids in private. Sometimes the school will asked a private donor to kick in for the "extras".

In our private there are 0-2 truly poor kids in each class. Not a significant representation, though. Maybe a year ago somebody on DCUM ran the numbers and figured out that, at many schools, the FA budget only supports a handful of full-FA kids. Although my kids don't attend them, I understand that Catholic/parochial schools do a better job at supporting low-income kids than many other area privates.

Honestly, I don't know where I would draw a line and declare X number of kids (1-2 kids? 9-10 kids?) a "meaningful" representation.

What is "meaningful" diversity anyway? Why do schools and parents want diversity? Is it
(a) the other kids learn about life outside the bubble, or
(b) the school has a true commitment to helping lower-income kids.
'd vote for (b), mainly because (a) seems patronizing and the "diversity" kids don't exist to educate the other kids. But well-intentioned people may disagree.

Please don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying that every kid must be exposed to "real" diversity. For some kids, a small, safe environment is necessary and helpful.

I am saying, though, that the people touting "diversity" at the private schools are talking about a very limited type of diversity. I'll be honest here, and say I get the impression that there's "good" diversity (minority kids from families like us) and bad diversity (dad is in jail). Another example: so far as I know, the full-FA kids' parents at our school have generally been to college, so they're in a position to help with algebra homework in a way that many lower-income public school parents are not. We don't have any kids of janitors or lawn guys at our school.

Also, I get the impression that most people haven't given much thought to what they want the diversity to achieve, apart from dispelling the perception that the school is a bastion of white privilege, which is an unfortunate perception in this day and age. My sense, though, is that many families want a comfortable, limited exposure to different points of view.

As a result, many private schools are bubbles in the sense that they offer a comfortable sort of diversity that exposes kids to a limited range of different viewpoints, but in the end doesn't really take kids out of the private school greenhouse.

My two cents. I'm feeling philosophical (and bored) today.

Anonymous wrote:I'm still not certain why people pay the premium to live in MoCo if they are going to send their kids to private. The same houses in MoCo typically are significantly more expensive than just about anywhere else in the Metro area (although some parts of NoVa are comparable). But the premium is in large part because of the school system. So why pay that premium and still pay for private school? It seems like you're paying for both.

I do understand the situation one PP mentioned of a SN child who was not adequately served by the public school system, but there are a ton of non-SN children from MoCo families that are going to privates.

Well... both my H and I work in Rockville... and my aging parents live there too, and I like upper moco... not too crowded, not too expensive.

I'm still not certain why people pay the premium to live in MoCo if they are going to send their kids to private. The same houses in MoCo typically are significantly more expensive than just about anywhere else in the Metro area (although some parts of NoVa are comparable). But the premium is in large part because of the school system. So why pay that premium and still pay for private school? It seems like you're paying for both.

I do understand the situation one PP mentioned of a SN child who was not adequately served by the public school system, but there are a ton of non-SN children from MoCo families that are going to privates.

Anonymous wrote: Since you mentioned Sidwell by name, Here are some reasons I send my DS to Sidwell rather than MoCo

I love the Quaker traditions and sense of community there.

Most of his classes have 10-12 students

In MoCo magnet he was one of two AA boys; Sidwell is more diverse

Sidwell has professional artists/muscians work with kids in their arts programs

The speakers at Sidwell are fascinating

The math teaching is superior

The writing instruction is superior

There are many opportunities to travel with the school overseas

Sidwell requires students to self advocate; teachers do not have to listen to pushy parents

The kids push themselves ( maybe too much)

Is the school perfect, no it is not. But it works for my kid. He was not as happy at his MoCo school.

I think many of these reasons are spot-on. Small class sizes. The opportunity to take Shakespeare or Southern American Writers. Great speakers. A close-knit community. Religious traditions, Quaker or other (ours is Episcopalian). These are all reasons our family has benefited from private schools.

But I'd quibble with some of these reasons, especially the bottom half of PP's list. I say this based on having kids in public and private schools.

- I agree that diversity is lacking in the magnets themselves (one of my kids moved from private to a MoCo magnet) But, all the MoCo magnets are housed in larger schools, generally in the eastern part of the county. Plus, magnet kids take all their non-magnet subjects with the rest of the school. So the science magnet kid is taking english, languages, social studies, art, music, gym, and whatever else with the rest what is probably an extremely diverse school in eastern MoCo.

-- Overseas travel, meh. That's a perk for rich kids unless you're poor enough to get aid. In any case, families can do this for themselves (especially if they don't have private tuition bills). Our family has traveled overseas four times already, without help from the school, and it's benefited both of our kids who are in public and private schools.

-- As far as self-advocating goes, I'd say students self-advocate more in the public schools than at almost any private. Also, the teachers in public schools are less likely to deal with pushy parents worried that a B will demolish Larla's chances at Yale.

-- Finally, many public school kids push themselves extremely hard. Kids are pushing themselves hard all over MoCo (read The Overachievers about Whitman for a harrowing account). I'm actually surprised that PP claims private schools have an edge on this. I get the sense it's part of a broader but unstated concern about public school cohorts, i.e., that not ALL MoCo kids are pushing themselves hard, and some parents don't want their kids to be around those other kids.

That is an over generalization pp. There are truly poor kids in private. Sometimes the school will asked a private donor to kick in for the "extras".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/reg.../currentyear/schools/04427.pdf

Sidwell: For the 2013-2014 school year, 1,132 students (563 boys and 569 girls) are enrolled. Forty-seven percent of the student body are students of color.

Maret: 42% students of color and 30% faculty of color.

NCS: Students of color constitute 38% of the NCS student body


As for diversity you have compared Montgomery County public schools to DC privates. Possibly a better comparison would be MD public to MD private or DC public to DC private.

I'm all for diversity. Which is why I'll say, from experience, that the diversity in private schools is not real SES diversity. There are very few genuinely impoverished kids, or kids from disadvantaged backgrounds, in DMV-area private schools. Also, people mark a race when they have 1 grandparent of that race, and schools eat that stuff up because they can report it in the stats someone gave above. My DCs have been in private and public schools, and the diversity really is more real (in the SES sense) in the public schools.

Some people (not all) choose private schools because they want a certain sort of diversity, but not the "wrong" sort of diversity. You can see this in posts like the ones earlier in this thread, the posts complaining about the influx of "lower income" people into eastern MoCo.

You are not going to see truly impoverished kids in private school because of many factors but even with scholarship funding (which may not be 100%), there are lots of add on fees that may not be waived, for example, some schools require 1.) transportation, which can add on $1,000 or more; 2.) school trips and supplies, which may not be included in tuition; 3.) study hall or after care; 4.) tutoring or additional supports; 5.) school and sports team uniforms. These are just a few add on that can be a couple of thousand dollars that impoverished families may not be able to afford. There is also the travelling to and from school for events and sports games. My family lives in DC and the private school my kids attend is in Potomac, MD. I know I spent at least $500 on gas travelling to and from school in addition to the mandatory transportation fee of $4000 for two kids to ride the bus. These are hidden fees that you don't think about when you apply to private school. So, no, the private schools are economically diverse between middle, upper middle and rich but not impoverished.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/reg.../currentyear/schools/04427.pdf

Sidwell: For the 2013-2014 school year, 1,132 students (563 boys and 569 girls) are enrolled. Forty-seven percent of the student body are students of color.

Maret: 42% students of color and 30% faculty of color.

NCS: Students of color constitute 38% of the NCS student body


As for diversity you have compared Montgomery County public schools to DC privates. Possibly a better comparison would be MD public to MD private or DC public to DC private.

I'm all for diversity. Which is why I'll say, from experience, that the diversity in private schools is not real SES diversity. There are very few genuinely impoverished kids, or kids from disadvantaged backgrounds, in DMV-area private schools. Also, people mark a race when they have 1 grandparent of that race, and schools eat that stuff up because they can report it in the stats someone gave above. My DCs have been in private and public schools, and the diversity really is more real (in the SES sense) in the public schools.

Some people (not all) choose private schools because they want a certain sort of diversity, but not the "wrong" sort of diversity. You can see this in posts like the ones earlier in this thread, the posts complaining about the influx of "lower income" people into eastern MoCo.

The post was comparing the diversity of private schools to the diversity of the top publics- Whtman was used as an example. I can assure you that the diversity in these types of publics is not 'real' SES diversity either.

OK, then we agree: the people who say they choose private school for the "diversity" are misguided.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Diversity:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/reg.../currentyear/schools/04427.pdf

Sidwell: For the 2013-2014 school year, 1,132 students (563 boys and 569 girls) are enrolled. Forty-seven percent of the student body are students of color.

Maret: 42% students of color and 30% faculty of color.

NCS: Students of color constitute 38% of the NCS student body


As for diversity you have compared Montgomery County public schools to DC privates. Possibly a better comparison would be MD public to MD private or DC public to DC private.

I'm all for diversity. Which is why I'll say, from experience, that the diversity in private schools is not real SES diversity. There are very few genuinely impoverished kids, or kids from disadvantaged backgrounds, in DMV-area private schools. Also, people mark a race when they have 1 grandparent of that race, and schools eat that stuff up because they can report it in the stats someone gave above. My DCs have been in private and public schools, and the diversity really is more real (in the SES sense) in the public schools.

Some people (not all) choose private schools because they want a certain sort of diversity, but not the "wrong" sort of diversity. You can see this in posts like the ones earlier in this thread, the posts complaining about the influx of "lower income" people into eastern MoCo.

The post was comparing the diversity of private schools to the diversity of the top publics- Whtman was used as an example. I can assure you that the diversity in these types of publics is not 'real' SES diversity either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People may jump all over this but I think that it is accurate to say that Montgomery County used to be considerably more homogenous in terms of social class. Over time the number of lower income residents has increased and this increase has occurred predominately in the eastern pert of the county. The shifting demographics have had an impact on MCPS.

That does not explain why teachers at Bethesda and Chevy Chase schools make spelling mistakes.

Or why a Wootton kid writes "payed" next to my kid's swim team card.

Please. DD's high school friend at Sidwell is the worst speller ever. It happens.

Anonymous wrote:Diversity:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/reg.../currentyear/schools/04427.pdf

Sidwell: For the 2013-2014 school year, 1,132 students (563 boys and 569 girls) are enrolled. Forty-seven percent of the student body are students of color.

Maret: 42% students of color and 30% faculty of color.

NCS: Students of color constitute 38% of the NCS student body


As for diversity you have compared Montgomery County public schools to DC privates. Possibly a better comparison would be MD public to MD private or DC public to DC private.

I'm all for diversity. Which is why I'll say, from experience, that the diversity in private schools is not real SES diversity. There are very few genuinely impoverished kids, or kids from disadvantaged backgrounds, in DMV-area private schools. Also, people mark a race when they have 1 grandparent of that race, and schools eat that stuff up because they can report it in the stats someone gave above. My DCs have been in private and public schools, and the diversity really is more real (in the SES sense) in the public schools.

Some people (not all) choose private schools because they want a certain sort of diversity, but not the "wrong" sort of diversity. You can see this in posts like the ones earlier in this thread, the posts complaining about the influx of "lower income" people into eastern MoCo.

Diversity:

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/reg.../currentyear/schools/04427.pdf

Sidwell: For the 2013-2014 school year, 1,132 students (563 boys and 569 girls) are enrolled. Forty-seven percent of the student body are students of color.

Maret: 42% students of color and 30% faculty of color.

NCS: Students of color constitute 38% of the NCS student body


As for diversity you have compared Montgomery County public schools to DC privates. Possibly a better comparison would be MD public to MD private or DC public to DC private.

Anonymous wrote:MoCo has many good public schools as well as many good private schools. What's right for each family is a function of their own circumstances and judgments.

We initially assumed we would attend public schools, and would move from a not-so-good district to a good one when that time came. Then we hit pre-school and our child was identified as having an unusual learning profile that the school was poorly equipped to handle (very strong in some areas, but gaps in some others). We also found in various extracurricular classes that teaching methods developed for the average kid just weren't optimal for us.

We found that we needed both small class sizes as well as a high degree of individualization to permit our child to be challenged in some areas while getting extra help in others. That road led us to private.

Like a lot of things in life, where you end up isn't always where you initially plan to go. Families make decisions according to the best information they have at the moment, and life doesn't always follow the preconceived plan.

This. We moved from a townhouse in VA to one of the best elementary schools in MoCo. For one child it was great, for another it was terrible. Our child was diagnosed with a mild/moderate learning issue and we were in a catch 22 of not severe enough for extra resources but not mild enough to be a non-issue in a public school setting. I don't want to say that my child's issues have disappeared in the private school setting because that wouldn't be true. I think the impact has been less and that is partially due to the smaller class sizes, more flexibility in how the teacher can address things, and better relationships both with peers and teachers. Since a lot of learning difficulties may not be apparent until 1st or 2nd grade and lots of people want their kids to be in the same place from kindergarten, I always advise finding out how a school works with it gifted learners, GT/LD, ADHD and dyslexia, unmotivated kids or kids in the middle because you don't know where your kid may fall when you are deciding on a school pre-birth or even when they are 2 or 3. "Best" school is very misleading because it may only be the best for a certain type of learner/profile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People may jump all over this but I think that it is accurate to say that Montgomery County used to be considerably more homogenous in terms of social class. Over time the number of lower income residents has increased and this increase has occurred predominately in the eastern pert of the county. The shifting demographics have had an impact on MCPS.

That does not explain why teachers at Bethesda and Chevy Chase schools make spelling mistakes.

Ease up. Probably a typo.

Anonymous wrote: Since you mentioned Sidwell by name, Here are some reasons I send my DS to Sidwell rather than MoCo

I love the Quaker traditions and sense of community there.

Most of his classes have 10-12 students

In MoCo magnet he was one of two AA boys; Sidwell is more diverse

Sidwell has professional artists/muscians work with kids in their arts programs

The speakers at Sidwell are fascinating

The math teaching is superior

The writing instruction is superior

There are many opportunities to travel with the school overseas

Sidwell requires students to self advocate; teachers do not have to listen to pushy parents

The kids push themselves ( maybe too much)

Is the school perfect, no it is not. But it works for my kid. He was not as happy at his MoCo school.

+1. Sidwell is not perfect (no school is) but I share your sentiment. I would never have an opportunity to hear some of the history making speakers (for free) that I've heard at Sidwell.