Anonymous
Post 06/25/2014 10:31     Subject: Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
We have sort of the opposite problem. We bought a house a while ago in a gentrifying neighborhood in DC. Our income and expectations have continued to increase, but our neighbors are still spotty. On one side, they can't be bothered to mow the lawn or pick up their trashy yard, and they leave their barking dogs outside all night and day.

On the other, the new person who bought the house from the lovely lady who once lived there now wants to rent out the house from top to bottom, and not even do it legally.

I like our neighborhood as a whole, but our immediate neighbors are sort of the pits, and I'm just tired of dealing with it. I've been thinking that maybe I'd actually prefer to be surrounded by people who have the resources, time, or desire to take a bit more care in how they treat their house, and neighbors.
Anonymous
Post 06/25/2014 00:18     Subject: Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No. I like to do the opposite and it removes the whole keeping up with the jones.




+100000


OP, you have no ida what the situation you propose does to some people, mentally. Some people go into breakdowns over this. DON'T DO IT.




+1000 It is very lonely and a lot of explaining. "We are not going to the Caribbean for Christmas. Nor will we be visiting Vail. Nor can you accept an all expenses paid trip to Europe with your friend Isabella. No we are not doing the $15k summer camp with Sammy"


This makes me very sad. We bought a $700K teardown in a $1.2++ neighborhood. There are dark moments I wish for more, but we love making this house ours. We do much of the work ourselves including the landscaping. Our neighbors have been incredibly welcoming and compliment our efforts to improve the place. The neighborhood kids play at our house, not because it's the nicest place on the block with the best stuff, but because it's a happy place to be. It's true, we have lots of conversations about why DD can't take private horseback lessons or get French manicures every week. Sometimes these conversations leave me exhausted, but mostly I look at them as opportunities to talk about how lucky we are to have what we do. Wealth is relative. And there will always be someone richer, smarter, thinner, etc. None of that matters if you're right with yourself. I'd rather her learn that in life than how to surround herself with people exactly like her.


Unfortunately, it catches up with people sooner or later. It's not as easy as feeling you bought a bargain, in a close in neighborhood, unfortunately. It comes with a ton of baggage, physically and mentally, internally and externally, which most people are not able to handle. You can pretend everything is near perfect, but its not. Most people aren't right with themselves for long, if they are at the low end of the spectrum. Its common sense. You can't fit a square peg into a round hole.





We bought a house in a more expensive area than we probably should have and there are pluses and minuses. Main con is that we both need to work at least till kids are out of elementary and we'd prefer to have one parent at home. Also, the house needs larger renovations that will take time. There is also more of a competitive atmosphere than I'm used to. Pluses are that it's a large enough house for us to live in for many years, the neighborhood is safe and desirable, many nice families, lots of kids nearby, amenities and schools nearby, great school reputation, great aftercare at the school, walkable neighborhood near shopping, and it's convenient to many jobs in the DC area should one of us lose a job. Do I sometimes wish I could hang out at the pool and tennis court all summer? Sure, but every choice has drawbacks.


We made the same choice and have no regrets. Home improvement can be addictive and expensive, but buying a fixer upper was the only way for us to afford a terrific neighborhood with great schools in Bethesda. Like many close-in neighborhoods, ours is a mix of older neighbors who have been here forever and newer ones with $2 million homes. The wealth disparity isn't an issue for anyone but you, OP, and you're the only person who knows if you can handle it.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 23:16     Subject: Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
Anonymous wrote:I always buy the cheapest house in the best neighborhood....Doesn't that make me smarter than the rest of my neighbors? I live in 20817, Walt Whitman Cluster (20 yrs now) in an old midcentury on a half acre and Im happy as a clam that the people behind me just paid 3 million for their house....they just made me richer


Assuming you sell your house. When would that be?

Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 19:00     Subject: Re:Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This sounds a bit like our neighborhood, where the houses go from $800K to almost $3 million. I think most people are just happy to see young families move in with kids who'll attend the local elementary school. It's a mish-mash best appreciated by people who don't expect everyone to fit the same mold.

Personally, having moved to the neighborhood from a subdivision further out in the suburbs where the houses were all built around the same time, the neighbors were, at least originally, all about the same age, and everyone was in your business constantly, I like it much better.


Your second paragraph is spot on, but your first paragraph is what the original hiuse owners want you to believe. You would be extremely naive to think that is what is really happening.


Huh? This makes no sense.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 18:46     Subject: Re:Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
Anonymous wrote:This sounds a bit like our neighborhood, where the houses go from $800K to almost $3 million. I think most people are just happy to see young families move in with kids who'll attend the local elementary school. It's a mish-mash best appreciated by people who don't expect everyone to fit the same mold.

Personally, having moved to the neighborhood from a subdivision further out in the suburbs where the houses were all built around the same time, the neighbors were, at least originally, all about the same age, and everyone was in your business constantly, I like it much better.


Your second paragraph is spot on, but your first paragraph is what the original hiuse owners want you to believe. You would be extremely naive to think that is what is really happening.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 16:32     Subject: Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
Here's some practical advice: take a Saturday and park in the neighborhood. Take your dog, kids whatever for a walk. Talk to the neighbors on your walk and say hello. Tell them you're thinking of moving nearby and what do they think of the neighborhood/schools etc. Get a feel for who they are. We did this when we were looking for homes. Ended up picking the street (in a modest neighborhood) with the basketball hoop in the street and all the neighborhood kids playing out front. Neighborhood was incredibly important to us.

Or find a playground in the neighborhood and strike up a conversation with a parent at the park. Find our who these people are before you judge them based on what their house looks like. There are a million ways to imagine who they are but reality will give you better decision-making power.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 15:46     Subject: Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
Are you kidding me, OP? I just went to the very expensive house of a Big Law lawyer in Potomac, and inside the house was shabbily furnished.

(Actually, the entire family was badly put together as well...so maybe they were just cheap?)

Get over the complex that these people are better than you and buy the house. You can always say that you will wait to remodel when kids are older.

Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 15:41     Subject: Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No. I like to do the opposite and it removes the whole keeping up with the jones.




+100000


OP, you have no ida what the situation you propose does to some people, mentally. Some people go into breakdowns over this. DON'T DO IT.




+1000 It is very lonely and a lot of explaining. "We are not going to the Caribbean for Christmas. Nor will we be visiting Vail. Nor can you accept an all expenses paid trip to Europe with your friend Isabella. No we are not doing the $15k summer camp with Sammy"


This makes me very sad. We bought a $700K teardown in a $1.2++ neighborhood. There are dark moments I wish for more, but we love making this house ours. We do much of the work ourselves including the landscaping. Our neighbors have been incredibly welcoming and compliment our efforts to improve the place. The neighborhood kids play at our house, not because it's the nicest place on the block with the best stuff, but because it's a happy place to be. It's true, we have lots of conversations about why DD can't take private horseback lessons or get French manicures every week. Sometimes these conversations leave me exhausted, but mostly I look at them as opportunities to talk about how lucky we are to have what we do. Wealth is relative. And there will always be someone richer, smarter, thinner, etc. None of that matters if you're right with yourself. I'd rather her learn that in life than how to surround herself with people exactly like her.


Unfortunately, it catches up with people sooner or later. It's not as easy as feeling you bought a bargain, in a close in neighborhood, unfortunately. It comes with a ton of baggage, physically and mentally, internally and externally, which most people are not able to handle. You can pretend everything is near perfect, but its not. Most people aren't right with themselves for long, if they are at the low end of the spectrum. Its common sense. You can't fit a square peg into a round hole.





We bought a house in a more expensive area than we probably should have and there are pluses and minuses. Main con is that we both need to work at least till kids are out of elementary and we'd prefer to have one parent at home. Also, the house needs larger renovations that will take time. There is also more of a competitive atmosphere than I'm used to. Pluses are that it's a large enough house for us to live in for many years, the neighborhood is safe and desirable, many nice families, lots of kids nearby, amenities and schools nearby, great school reputation, great aftercare at the school, walkable neighborhood near shopping, and it's convenient to many jobs in the DC area should one of us lose a job. Do I sometimes wish I could hang out at the pool and tennis court all summer? Sure, but every choice has drawbacks.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 15:33     Subject: Re:Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
This sounds a bit like our neighborhood, where the houses go from $800K to almost $3 million. I think most people are just happy to see young families move in with kids who'll attend the local elementary school. It's a mish-mash best appreciated by people who don't expect everyone to fit the same mold.

Personally, having moved to the neighborhood from a subdivision further out in the suburbs where the houses were all built around the same time, the neighbors were, at least originally, all about the same age, and everyone was in your business constantly, I like it much better.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 15:21     Subject: Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
We rent in a neighborhood we could never afford to buy in. It's a mix of modest (original) homes and gigantic new homes. I thought there would be a huge divide between the big house people and the little house people, but there's not. (The only division is between the older folks who bought their homes decades ago when the neighborhood was solidly blue collar and the newer residents who are generally more white collar. And even that is not a glaring difference.)

We hang out with big house people. Sure, they have humongous houses with million-dollar landscaping, but they come to our little hovel and have a great time too. We all went to the same colleges and have similar upbringings. We have more in common than I would've thought at first glance.

I would buy in this neighborhood in a heartbeat if I could afford it. It would be a great investment.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 14:31     Subject: Re:Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
Anonymous wrote:

Really, I think your experience is colored by lawyers which are higher paid in Federal service. In my agency we have like 3 employees out of 150 who are Gs15; everyone else tops out at 130k. And most folks aren't making 130k by the time they are in their 30s, it takes time to work up to that for non lawyers/non doctors. Look at the one example on this thread; they are GS15 but bought in 2000, which mean they are in their 40s. young Genx and geny Feds have had years of pay freezes, smaller budgets, and such. Thy are not buying houses close in. No one in my office owns a SFH inside the beltway, I'm pretty sure, except PG county.


How many of these families in their 40s have young kids? Most neighborhoods with $1.2M+ homes are older. And they had their kids, like most people in their early 30s. I can't tell you how many times I have heard people say "there are just no kids in the neighborhood!" They are MS, teens or off at college, so not a great mix for the younger kid crowd.



That's funny. I'm 40 with young kids and feel pretty young compared to my neighbors with young kids.
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 14:13     Subject: Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Part of the problem here is that if you want a) good schools and b) short commute downtown, you are stuck with very expensive neighborhoods. Most middle income folks simply accept the lot of commuting long distances (which is why the 'where did the money come from' thread doesn't list any Federal employees, engineers, or teachers in who is buying close-in neighborhoods).

You are making the choice to value your time over having a nice house further out. That time you spend with your children may balance out the potential for income differences.

Also, even if you move to a neighborhood where people are similar to you in income; they may live off credit or splurge in general or go bonzo at wal-mart and mcdonalds and you might be someone who lives simply; you still won't fit in. But now you are stuck driving much longer!


You're foolish if you dont think McLean, N Arlington and Bethesda have numerous dual GS-15 Federal Employees. In fact, most ghovernment workers in the DC Area are GS-14 or above, which means a two fed household is 250K to 315K....


+1. Line in McLean Hamlet where the homes are more reasonable (under $1 M average) Lots of GS-14 and GS-15 families, government lawyers etc. Some with SAHM....


My neighbors are both feds - one is SES and one is GS-15. I am sure their Household income is about $350,000 but they bought their house for 450,000 back in 2000


That was 14 years ago, when their kids were young. How old are they now?
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 14:12     Subject: Re:Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?

Really, I think your experience is colored by lawyers which are higher paid in Federal service. In my agency we have like 3 employees out of 150 who are Gs15; everyone else tops out at 130k. And most folks aren't making 130k by the time they are in their 30s, it takes time to work up to that for non lawyers/non doctors. Look at the one example on this thread; they are GS15 but bought in 2000, which mean they are in their 40s. young Genx and geny Feds have had years of pay freezes, smaller budgets, and such. Thy are not buying houses close in. No one in my office owns a SFH inside the beltway, I'm pretty sure, except PG county.


How many of these families in their 40s have young kids? Most neighborhoods with $1.2M+ homes are older. And they had their kids, like most people in their early 30s. I can't tell you how many times I have heard people say "there are just no kids in the neighborhood!" They are MS, teens or off at college, so not a great mix for the younger kid crowd.




Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 14:06     Subject: Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
I always buy the cheapest house in the best neighborhood....Doesn't that make me smarter than the rest of my neighbors? I live in 20817, Walt Whitman Cluster (20 yrs now) in an old midcentury on a half acre and Im happy as a clam that the people behind me just paid 3 million for their house....they just made me richer
Anonymous
Post 06/24/2014 13:43     Subject: Would you buy a home in neighborhood where neighbors make a lot more than you?
Neighbors who have lived there for a decade or so likely didn't pay anywhere near that much for their house.

In my neighborhood new residents have paid $900k or more for their houses. I paid $200k ten years ago and other neighbors paid less than $150k 15 or more years ago. No one blinks an eye.