Anonymous wrote:Atheists have no soul.

Just like everyone else

Atheists have no soul.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"There IS no God" IS a personal attack on believers, end of story.

Sorry, you can't simplify like this. "There is no God" is fine. What's insulting is all the condescending/insulting/ridiculous snark you guys pile into your posts, to go along with that statement.

That's also relative -- what's seems insulting to one person might seem like a simple fact to another. Also, religious people often insult non-believers without realizing it -- or thinking it's ok -- for instance to tell a child that they're going to hell, because they don't believe in a certain religion. It's not seen as cruel -- it's seen as helpful to get the kid on a path to god.

or to tell an atheist that they might as well kill themselves right now if they don't believe in god. What a non-sequiter. We know this is the only life we have, so we want to live it as long and as well as we can. Plus, I don't see any believers putting their lives on the line for "worthy causes." People tend to want to stay alive, regardless of their beliefs.

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. To 20:08, how is there no more confusion about horrible violence? Can you explain that to me? I'm being serious. I want to believe in God because it seems to bring comfort and answers to so many people but as I've said above, the illogical answers don't provide me any comfort or answers. I just can't think we're here for no purpose, stuff happens, some of it horrible, then we die. How do you reconcile all of these things? Thanks.

There's no more confusion, because without factoring a beneficent, omniscient god into the picture, then whatever happens is random - so theres no more confusion or need to explain how such things could happen to good people. Things just happen - for good or ill. Now, humans exert some control in many situations, to be sure, but we can't stop the random tsunami or flood, or car wreck or rape or lightening bolt, or infectious disease.

I'm not sure what you mean by "how do you reconcile all of these things" - I think I don't reconcile them, or I reconcile them by accepting an element of luck in everything about my life -- including being born in the first place -- and recognizing the possibility of bad luck striking along the way -- and knowing that I'll die in the end - like every other human that has had the good luck of ever being born. That's what I focus on -- the luck of being born at all.

I think we define our own purpose once we're here -- depending on the time in which we live and the opportunities presented to us. Some people feel a need to be attached to something grander than their own existence and some don't. We all die in the end, but that doesn't mean our lives were useless while we existed - at least it doesn't to me. I hope you can find that peace.

Anonymous wrote:"There IS no God" IS a personal attack on believers, end of story.

Sorry, you can't simplify like this. "There is no God" is fine. What's insulting is all the condescending/insulting/ridiculous snark you guys pile into your posts, to go along with that statement.

OP here again. To 20:08, how is there no more confusion about horrible violence? Can you explain that to me? I'm being serious. I want to believe in God because it seems to bring comfort and answers to so many people but as I've said above, the illogical answers don't provide me any comfort or answers. I just can't think we're here for no purpose, stuff happens, some of it horrible, then we die. How do you reconcile all of these things? Thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Karma. Good people were bad in a prior life, and karma is catching up.

The other possibility is, the good people are not as good as you think they are. I'm super friendly and helpful at work, I'm a GREAT friend, etc. But I waste a ton in the privacy of home. I throw out a lot of food, I use disposable bowls and flatware, etc.

+1 to both of these

So then you deserve to be raped and killed? This is where my confusion lies. True, it's not my place to judge who is good and who is bad, but horrible unnecessary violence is where I get tripped up in the "God controls everything" "it is all part of God's plan" discussion. This type of situation is where I really can't see the bigger picture. I do appreciate the options of everyone so far.

Without a god there is no more confusion about horrible, unnecessary violence. Problem is, without god, there's no more heaven either and I think that's what a lot of people want to hang on to, despite the fact that the other stuff doesn't make sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Karma. Good people were bad in a prior life, and karma is catching up.

The other possibility is, the good people are not as good as you think they are. I'm super friendly and helpful at work, I'm a GREAT friend, etc. But I waste a ton in the privacy of home. I throw out a lot of food, I use disposable bowls and flatware, etc.

+1 to both of these

So then you deserve to be raped and killed? This is where my confusion lies. True, it's not my place to judge who is good and who is bad, but horrible unnecessary violence is where I get tripped up in the "God controls everything" "it is all part of God's plan" discussion. This type of situation is where I really can't see the bigger picture. I do appreciate the options of everyone so far.

Anonymous wrote:The Ten Commandments decide what is bad.

Thus sayeth the Christian or the Jew.

Anonymous wrote:"There IS no God" IS a personal attack on believers, end of story.

So "there is a god" is a personal attack on non-believers? No -- it's just a difference of opinion.

Count me as another person who has only felt relief and liberation through atheism. I grew up with strong faith and understand that it is a great source of comfort to many.

I have read the Kushner book and agree with other posters that it is excellent.

The Ten Commandments decide what is bad.

What makes a bad thing?
Who's view on the matter makes that determination?
Is it the onlooker who sees the negative or is it the onlooker who sees the blessing that defines what bad things are and who good people are?
Is it the person experiencing it who sees the negative or is it the person experiencing it that sees the blessing that defines what bad things are - is it the person with a negative self-image or the positive one that determines whether they are a good person or not?


Perception is everything.

"There IS no God" IS a personal attack on believers, end of story.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I've stopped reading this forum for the most part, and only rarely pop in, like today.

It's a RELIGION forum but the threads are riddled with "Quite simply, God doesn't exist." Why thank you for showing up on a Religion forum to spout about your atheism.

For the record, my opinion is that bad things happen because this is not Heaven. Heaven is later, after we have gone through this life and learned lessons, good and bad. And when there's something horrendous that we just can grasp, it wasn't our lesson to learn.

I'm sure 35 atheists will now show up and tell me I'm wrong, but that's fine. I'm not checking back and your opinion doesn't affect my faith. Your bitterness is disheartening but there's nothing anyone can do for you in that regard. But perhaps you should get your own forum where you can trumpet your disbelief, instead of polluting this one.

A forum entitled "religion" is a place where people can discuss religion, which includes whether any one religion is true/makes sense.

It is not necessarily just a place for people who believe in one particular religion.

A discussion on religion without the full spectrum of belief systems -- including those who don't believe in god -- is not really a full discussion.

If I started a thread right now in "off topic" on atheism, are you suggesting no believer or religious person would post? Of course they'd post.

As long as people don't make personal attacks, all views on religion should be allowed in a forum on religion. It's a forum to *discuss* religion, not just a forum for religious people.

+1

What pp calls "bitterness" is simply a different point of view, which seems like "trumpeting" and "polluting" because it's different in a world where any religious point of view is rarely openly questioned.