Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the planning history of this area. the neighborhood folks over the last 10 years have fought development of the MArtens site (too big!), and made life hell for Safeway to add apartments on top of a proposed store. Just look at the decade long dabacle of building the new Giant down in Cathedral Heights. Why would safeway bother when they can make a ton of money and development will be someone I support a new high school west of the park. But Marion Barry will come back for a 5th and eternal term as mayor before the DC political climate is such that DCPS would spend $$ to buy property in NW when they are closing schools elsewhere. problem. This is also the same crowd that fought for a year against a proposal for 6 story building on top of FH metro-finally approved at 5...and now sold to Pepco for a substation. Tenleytown looks exactly the way the community wants it...stopped in time.

I don't blame the Tenleytown neighbors for being skeptical of Safeway'large development proposal, particularly when they see the size and scale of Cathedral Commons. It's unimpressive in design, will be filled with just more chain stores and chain restaurants (no independent businesses) and likely will create nasty traffic and parking problems on the side streets of McLean Gardens and the west side of Cleveland Park. GDS seems to be a better alternative to yet another "town center" encroaching on a residential neighborood.

Sure - and I bet you believe GDS is spending 80 million on just land acquisition to build athletic facilities that won't have sound amplification or lights - do you think the neighbors will be advocates for that?

And if you know anything you would know that Supermarkets have pretty small market catchment areas - but if you aren't aware go to google maps and search for supermarkets and see how many there are and then compare that to the density of private schools - and yet you still think a supermarket is going to generate more local and regional traffic?

I don't know the numbers for the Safeway development, but the traffic engineers for Cathedral Commons testified that it would generate an additional 4000 vehicle trips per day above the level of the previous Giant shopping center. And that was before the developers broke ground and then started marketing it in their materials as a "destination" rather than a neighborhood retail center. DDOT's chief traffic engineer later said it's a safe bet to take the developer traffic estimates and then double them. This is a lot more traffic than what a private school generates.

Anonymous wrote:I think it's great that GDS may finally have a real private school campus.

Welcome to the 21st Century Grasshopper

Yup - a real private school campus for mostly suburban MD students who almost exclusively drive to the current school on a major commercial corridor that will forever kill any chance of revitalization of the Wisconsin Avenue corridor while costing DC tens of millions in annual property tax revenue. Oh and the campus will require closing a DC street to get its private feel.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the planning history of this area. the neighborhood folks over the last 10 years have fought development of the MArtens site (too big!), and made life hell for Safeway to add apartments on top of a proposed store. Just look at the decade long dabacle of building the new Giant down in Cathedral Heights. Why would safeway bother when they can make a ton of money and development will be someone I support a new high school west of the park. But Marion Barry will come back for a 5th and eternal term as mayor before the DC political climate is such that DCPS would spend $$ to buy property in NW when they are closing schools elsewhere. problem. This is also the same crowd that fought for a year against a proposal for 6 story building on top of FH metro-finally approved at 5...and now sold to Pepco for a substation. Tenleytown looks exactly the way the community wants it...stopped in time.

I don't blame the Tenleytown neighbors for being skeptical of Safeway'large development proposal, particularly when they see the size and scale of Cathedral Commons. It's unimpressive in design, will be filled with just more chain stores and chain restaurants (no independent businesses) and likely will create nasty traffic and parking problems on the side streets of McLean Gardens and the west side of Cleveland Park. GDS seems to be a better alternative to yet another "town center" encroaching on a residential neighborood.

Sure - and I bet you believe GDS is spending 80 million on just land acquisition to build athletic facilities that won't have sound amplification or lights - do you think the neighbors will be advocates for that?

And if you know anything you would know that Supermarkets have pretty small market catchment areas - but if you aren't aware go to google maps and search for supermarkets and see how many there are and then compare that to the density of private schools - and yet you still think a supermarket is going to generate more local and regional traffic?

I think it's great that GDS may finally have a real private school campus.

Welcome to the 21st Century Grasshopper

Anonymous wrote:I know the planning history of this area. the neighborhood folks over the last 10 years have fought development of the MArtens site (too big!), and made life hell for Safeway to add apartments on top of a proposed store. Just look at the decade long dabacle of building the new Giant down in Cathedral Heights. Why would safeway bother when they can make a ton of money and development will be someone I support a new high school west of the park. But Marion Barry will come back for a 5th and eternal term as mayor before the DC political climate is such that DCPS would spend $$ to buy property in NW when they are closing schools elsewhere. problem. This is also the same crowd that fought for a year against a proposal for 6 story building on top of FH metro-finally approved at 5...and now sold to Pepco for a substation. Tenleytown looks exactly the way the community wants it...stopped in time.

I don't blame the Tenleytown neighbors for being skeptical of Safeway'large development proposal, particularly when they see the size and scale of Cathedral Commons. It's unimpressive in design, will be filled with just more chain stores and chain restaurants (no independent businesses) and likely will create nasty traffic and parking problems on the side streets of McLean Gardens and the west side of Cleveland Park. GDS seems to be a better alternative to yet another "town center" encroaching on a residential neighborood.

Anonymous wrote:I would hope the neighborhood is as tough with them as Foxhall was with the Field School. They need to promise no night games, no weekend games, no renting out their facilities for things like nighttime parties and I would also make them stop renting out their facilities to summer camps until they can be more agreeable neighbors.

That is the deal that was negotiated with National Cathedral School when they built their large gym facility along Woodley Road. It has generally worked out well for the school and the immediate neighborhood.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have posted already in this thread, but given that there was a plan for a mixed-use store which would have brought new residents and news income tax and property tax to the city that will now be replaced by a voice on Wisconsin Avenue and a removal of very valuable property from the city coffers, I believe this is a negative.

A private school brings nothing of value to the residential community. The school promised in its last variance hearings to share their field with the community as part of an amenity package, yet they never followed through with it despite years of pressing on it. They have, at every turn sought to increase capacity at their schools despite promises not to do so, and they are a really bad neighbor where traffic and parking are concerned. Plus, many are really tired of their upper classmen smoking pot and cigarettes in the residential areas near people's back yards where little kids are playing.

I will be asking the ANC to take a very close look at the proposals when they surface.

+1 Other schools make there facilities available to the surrounding community and seek to engage the community. For GDS it is always a fight.

I'm not a neighbor of GDS, but especially where they just have that one turf field they need to worry about maintenance (would you believe people will let their dogs do their business on turf fields? Sadly, people do); liability (it may be that their insurance coverage would go way up if the field were more broadly available); and keeping the field available for their own programs. I just think there are different concerns than a suburban school with lots of grass fields (Bullis, Landon, say -- and I'm not familiar with their usage).

Also, and I am a long-time city resident, don't people expect that being in a city will bring with it noise and traffic? That's part of the choice you make. The school has been there since the 1940s and it is foreseeable that any institution of that type will seek to expand.

In terms of "nuisances" or "secondary effects" -- parking, traffic, drawing unsavory characters, etc. -- schools are not active all day long -- they clear out a great deal by 4pm or so -- and tend to be quieter during academic breaks as well. I'm not sure what your ideal neighbor would be instead of a school but it's not like you're living next to a hog farm, strip joint, or lye factory.

Finally, the prior poster in real estate is correct -- living near a private school is good for property values.

Independent schools near residential zones can bring negatives, as well as positives. Because of the zoning, GDS will need a special exception to expand and build. To the extent that the school hasn't always observed past promises, that will be the time to raise that issue and for the ANC to lock in enforceable commitments this time. However, as someone who has no direct connection to the school, I think that they are more sensitive to neighborhood concerns and want to be a good neighbor (and it is clearly in their interest to do so). I do think that the GDS transaction is much better for the neighborhood than the Safeway PUD proposal was. The entrance to the school is just off Wisconsin Ave. and, so long as no "back entrances" for vehicles are created, the traffic should be more manageable. I'm sure that the neighbors who feared a condo building next to their homes will prefer the green border of playing fields.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world do you think it is good for the broader community to limit field time at schools? I'm sympathetic to a degree on the lights though in the case of the Field School it is pretty well buffered on all sides:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Field+School/@38.9205902,-77.0873793,196m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x42ef03e9c70690df

But as a parent I'm fed up with wasting time racing all over DC adding to congestion and pollution while both private and public school athletic fields are locked on the weekend in large part because of opposition from nearby neighbors.

So the nearby neighbors don't have the burden of listening to children playing sports (the horror) while everyone else wastes time and has additional traffic on their streets.

It is no surprise that the clueless dinosaurs on ANC 3D have done this at every opportunity but I certainly hope the community in Tenleytown via their ANC insists that GDS make their athletic facilities available to the public at specific times, particularly since GDS is bragging about the greenery this project will allegedly create while at the same time creating an additional burden by requesting that 42nd Street be closed through this stretch to create these playing fields.

I think most of the neighbors with no kids or no kids who play rec sports are not going to feel your pain or agree with you. You don't have to live next to these fields ! You just expect to waltz in, make a bunch of noise and take up a bunch of parking places. Your post could be used by the ANC as an example of why these kinds of activities should be banned.

And lots of folks can't see the forest for the trees.

I live a 5 minute walk from GDS and would be comfortable letting either of my boys walk alone to athletic events there. But instead we get in the car and drive past GDS and its unused field on the way to events in far flung often inaccessible places - sitting in traffic in front of other peoples homes and then parking our car on the street in front of other peoples homes near another athletic field that is also near other peoples homes.

Or perhaps we should burden no one with anything ever?

I don't have an athletic field in my back yard but my block is hemmed in by two streets with fairly high levels of traffic - it would be great for me if no one drove on either street but then many people would be unable to drive to their homes or get to work - and yes in my case traffic patterns have changed in our time in the neighborhood due to forces completely out of out control but things do change in life regardless of what your real estate agent told you when she sold you your home.

We have scarce amounts of land in DC and it is stupid and irresponsible to limit access to athletic fields that are in high demand so neighbors won't have to deal with the very normal urban burden of parking and the terrible imposition of noise from children.

Folks who don't like such burdens should move to the gated parts of Montgomery County where most of the GDS student population also comes from.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world do you think it is good for the broader community to limit field time at schools? I'm sympathetic to a degree on the lights though in the case of the Field School it is pretty well buffered on all sides:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Field+School/@38.9205902,-77.0873793,196m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x42ef03e9c70690df

But as a parent I'm fed up with wasting time racing all over DC adding to congestion and pollution while both private and public school athletic fields are locked on the weekend in large part because of opposition from nearby neighbors.

So the nearby neighbors don't have the burden of listening to children playing sports (the horror) while everyone else wastes time and has additional traffic on their streets.

It is no surprise that the clueless dinosaurs on ANC 3D have done this at every opportunity but I certainly hope the community in Tenleytown via their ANC insists that GDS make their athletic facilities available to the public at specific times, particularly since GDS is bragging about the greenery this project will allegedly create while at the same time creating an additional burden by requesting that 42nd Street be closed through this stretch to create these playing fields.

I think most of the neighbors with no kids or no kids who play rec sports are not going to feel your pain or agree with you. You don't have to live next to these fields ! You just expect to waltz in, make a bunch of noise and take up a bunch of parking places. Your post could be used by the ANC as an example of why these kinds of activities should be banned.

Thanks, Nancy NIMBY.

Anonymous wrote:Why in the world do you think it is good for the broader community to limit field time at schools? I'm sympathetic to a degree on the lights though in the case of the Field School it is pretty well buffered on all sides:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Field+School/@38.9205902,-77.0873793,196m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x42ef03e9c70690df

But as a parent I'm fed up with wasting time racing all over DC adding to congestion and pollution while both private and public school athletic fields are locked on the weekend in large part because of opposition from nearby neighbors.

So the nearby neighbors don't have the burden of listening to children playing sports (the horror) while everyone else wastes time and has additional traffic on their streets.

It is no surprise that the clueless dinosaurs on ANC 3D have done this at every opportunity but I certainly hope the community in Tenleytown via their ANC insists that GDS make their athletic facilities available to the public at specific times, particularly since GDS is bragging about the greenery this project will allegedly create while at the same time creating an additional burden by requesting that 42nd Street be closed through this stretch to create these playing fields.

I think most of the neighbors with no kids or no kids who play rec sports are not going to feel your pain or agree with you. You don't have to live next to these fields ! You just expect to waltz in, make a bunch of noise and take up a bunch of parking places. Your post could be used by the ANC as an example of why these kinds of activities should be banned.

So, what private schools actually do open up their playing fields to the public on weekends? I know some open their kiddie playgrounds but which ones are open to the public or to Stoddert?

Why in the world do you think it is good for the broader community to limit field time at schools? I'm sympathetic to a degree on the lights though in the case of the Field School it is pretty well buffered on all sides:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Field+School/@38.9205902,-77.0873793,196m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x42ef03e9c70690df

But as a parent I'm fed up with wasting time racing all over DC adding to congestion and pollution while both private and public school athletic fields are locked on the weekend in large part because of opposition from nearby neighbors.

So the nearby neighbors don't have the burden of listening to children playing sports (the horror) while everyone else wastes time and has additional traffic on their streets.

It is no surprise that the clueless dinosaurs on ANC 3D have done this at every opportunity but I certainly hope the community in Tenleytown via their ANC insists that GDS make their athletic facilities available to the public at specific times, particularly since GDS is bragging about the greenery this project will allegedly create while at the same time creating an additional burden by requesting that 42nd Street be closed through this stretch to create these playing fields.

I would hope the neighborhood is as tough with them as Foxhall was with the Field School. They need to promise no night games, no weekend games, no renting out their facilities for things like nighttime parties and I would also make them stop renting out their facilities to summer camps until they can be more agreeable neighbors.

GDS is a long way away from a master plan for the whole site, but the odds are that the Volvo dealership would become an entryway into the school and the Wisconsin Ave. frontage would be developed as commercial property to throw off revenue. The Safeway site alone is roughly the same size as the US campus, so there is plenty of room for an additional field plus LS and MS buildings. By buying both properties, GDS can ask for the closure of 42nd and Davenport Sts, adding significant square footage to the campus footprint.

From a school standpoint, it is pretty impressive that they had the cash available to make the purchase. I think our PTA has the resources to buy a single Volvo, not a whole dealership.

I know the planning history of this area. the neighborhood folks over the last 10 years have fought development of the MArtens site (too big!), and made life hell for Safeway to add apartments on top of a proposed store. Just look at the decade long dabacle of building the new Giant down in Cathedral Heights. Why would safeway bother when they can make a ton of money and development will be someone elses problem. This is also the same crowd that fought for a year against a proposal for 6 story building on top of FH metro-finally approved at 5...and now sold to Pepco for a substation. Tenleytown looks exactly the way the communtiy wants it...stopped in time.