Is it possible for a normal person be be in a long-term relationship with someone with BPD (or a narcissist or a sociopath)? Or are they also ill to stay for so long, supporting them and basically validating them as they harm others?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The part I don't understand is how do they think other people do it? Do they really think they've been dealt a crap hand and everyone in their life is a horrible human out to get them? Do they not realize that most people are not estranged from all their family members and long-time friends?

That's the deal with the borderline in my life and I just don't understand how she doesn't see that there's a problem.

You also don't understand that their reality is different than yours. They don't/can't see things the same way as someone without the disorder. Their brains don't work the same way.

I wonder if some are thinking they know people with borderline personality disorder when the actual problem is something else. Bipolar, severe depression, sociopathy even.

Yes, in my case my reality is different -- because you don't have any idea from the outside what the dynamic was within my family. You would see the abuser as a great person and member of the community. You would not see the abuse. So you would think it odd that I cut off my family "for no reason." But you would be wrong....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The part I don't understand is how do they think other people do it? Do they really think they've been dealt a crap hand and everyone in their life is a horrible human out to get them? Do they not realize that most people are not estranged from all their family members and long-time friends?

That's the deal with the borderline in my life and I just don't understand how she doesn't see that there's a problem.

You also don't understand that their reality is different than yours. They don't/can't see things the same way as someone without the disorder. Their brains don't work the same way.

I wonder if some are thinking they know people with borderline personality disorder when the actual problem is something else. Bipolar, severe depression, sociopathy even.

That's what I think too. You people are describing sociopaths and narcissists and calling them BPDs.

+1

Once one understands BPD, one realizes just how needy these people are. They are not consciously manipulating people like narcissists and sociopaths. Yes, they lie, but do so to protect themselves, not to hurt others like the other personality disorders do. Their state is quite pitiful and well summed up by the title of the book: "I Hate You, Please Don't Leave Me." A statement like this would not be made by a narcissist or sociopath.

Many of them do go into therapy, but drive their therapists to the edge because they call them incessantly with all their insecurities and suicidal inclinations. In DBT the therapists for a BPD person must be available for them 24/7. This is hard work.

Being the partner of a BPD person can be very difficult, and I agree that in many cases the best course is to just leave because the drama and upheaval can be overwhelming. That said, there are ways one can learn to manage the BPD behavior to avoid eliciting the extreme reactions. They need a lot of validation, and that can be exhausting. Parents have no choice but to do this with their BPD children, but partners are more than forgiven for just opting out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The part I don't understand is how do they think other people do it? Do they really think they've been dealt a crap hand and everyone in their life is a horrible human out to get them? Do they not realize that most people are not estranged from all their family members and long-time friends?

That's the deal with the borderline in my life and I just don't understand how she doesn't see that there's a problem.

You also don't understand that their reality is different than yours. They don't/can't see things the same way as someone without the disorder. Their brains don't work the same way.

I wonder if some are thinking they know people with borderline personality disorder when the actual problem is something else. Bipolar, severe depression, sociopathy even.

That's what I think too. You people are describing sociopaths and narcissists and calling them BPDs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The part I don't understand is how do they think other people do it? Do they really think they've been dealt a crap hand and everyone in their life is a horrible human out to get them? Do they not realize that most people are not estranged from all their family members and long-time friends?

That's the deal with the borderline in my life and I just don't understand how she doesn't see that there's a problem.

You also don't understand that their reality is different than yours. They don't/can't see things the same way as someone without the disorder. Their brains don't work the same way.

I wonder if some are thinking they know people with borderline personality disorder when the actual problem is something else. Bipolar, severe depression, sociopathy even.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am not sure why a lot of PPs are insisting BPD occurs only in individuals who are abused. This is not correct, although there is significant overlap.

It is a disorder of emotional dysregulation, and there is evidence via PET scans that there are abnormalities in the function of the amygdala, thought to be the seat of the emotions.

In addition, BPD individuals tend to have a highly refined ability to read faces and, thus, pick up the slightest hint of negative emotion, which they take to heart. One way of thinking of BPD individuals is that they are at the extreme end of the emotionally thin skinned.

Yes, they are very difficult to deal with, but they also suffer greatly from their emotional neediness and often seek solace in drugs and alcohol. When they become overwhelmed by all the emotional input they are constantly taking in they often contemplate suicide. Their life is hell.

Well put, PP. Perhaps this can help others to have some empathy for people with BPD.

Nope. No empathy here.

To me, it's a lot like the difference between having empathy and sympathy for someone who commits suicide, versus someone who commits a murder-suicide. Neither are ok, but if you're struggling, just you, within you, pretty much alone in you, I can have sympathy. I feel for that. I would want to support and help a person who is struggling within.

But to act out your pain on others? To abuse others? To burden others? To bring others down with you? Hell no. Not an iota of sympathy. People with BPD aren't struggling alone - it is characteristic of them to project, through abuse (not necessarily physical abuse) onto others. Manipulation is abuse. Lying to hurt others is abuse. People with BPD hurt others tremendously, with an emotional pummel after emotional pummel. I do not have empathy for abusers.

+100. I had a brief relationship with a man with BPD who then made my life hell for several years; I was very often in fear of my life. I finally moved out of state just to get away from him.

No sympathy, no empathy, not a shred of anything but rage that this a$$hole screwed up my life for so long.

Count your blessings you didn't have a baby with him, like I did.

Anonymous wrote:Is a part of BPD the ability to appear normal to people who are not being victimized?

For some, absolutely. Many are charming, seemingly normal, who lead active social and professional lives. A challenge for BPD is having healthy inter-personal relationships, so it is generally only those in the "inner circle" who are harmed (or most harmed) by them.

Is a part of BPD the ability to appear normal to people who are not being victimized?

I don't think dividing humans into good and evil distorts the reality of the human condition. If you have experienced pain at the hands of someone for years on end, then you know there are good and bad people in the world. Clearly there are -- you shouldn't have to experience it yourself to see it's the truth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am not sure why a lot of PPs are insisting BPD occurs only in individuals who are abused. This is not correct, although there is significant overlap.

It is a disorder of emotional dysregulation, and there is evidence via PET scans that there are abnormalities in the function of the amygdala, thought to be the seat of the emotions.

In addition, BPD individuals tend to have a highly refined ability to read faces and, thus, pick up the slightest hint of negative emotion, which they take to heart. One way of thinking of BPD individuals is that they are at the extreme end of the emotionally thin skinned.

Yes, they are very difficult to deal with, but they also suffer greatly from their emotional neediness and often seek solace in drugs and alcohol. When they become overwhelmed by all the emotional input they are constantly taking in they often contemplate suicide. Their life is hell.

Well put, PP. Perhaps this can help others to have some empathy for people with BPD.

Nope. No empathy here.

To me, it's a lot like the difference between having empathy and sympathy for someone who commits suicide, versus someone who commits a murder-suicide. Neither are ok, but if you're struggling, just you, within you, pretty much alone in you, I can have sympathy. I feel for that. I would want to support and help a person who is struggling within.

But to act out your pain on others? To abuse others? To burden others? To bring others down with you? Hell no. Not an iota of sympathy. People with BPD aren't struggling alone - it is characteristic of them to project, through abuse (not necessarily physical abuse) onto others. Manipulation is abuse. Lying to hurt others is abuse. People with BPD hurt others tremendously, with an emotional pummel after emotional pummel. I do not have empathy for abusers.

+100. I had a brief relationship with a man with BPD who then made my life hell for several years; I was very often in fear of my life. I finally moved out of state just to get away from him.

No sympathy, no empathy, not a shred of anything but rage that this a$$hole screwed up my life for so long.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am not sure why a lot of PPs are insisting BPD occurs only in individuals who are abused. This is not correct, although there is significant overlap.

It is a disorder of emotional dysregulation, and there is evidence via PET scans that there are abnormalities in the function of the amygdala, thought to be the seat of the emotions.

In addition, BPD individuals tend to have a highly refined ability to read faces and, thus, pick up the slightest hint of negative emotion, which they take to heart. One way of thinking of BPD individuals is that they are at the extreme end of the emotionally thin skinned.

Yes, they are very difficult to deal with, but they also suffer greatly from their emotional neediness and often seek solace in drugs and alcohol. When they become overwhelmed by all the emotional input they are constantly taking in they often contemplate suicide. Their life is hell.

Well put, PP. Perhaps this can help others to have some empathy for people with BPD.

Nope. No empathy here.

To me, it's a lot like the difference between having empathy and sympathy for someone who commits suicide, versus someone who commits a murder-suicide. Neither are ok, but if you're struggling, just you, within you, pretty much alone in you, I can have sympathy. I feel for that. I would want to support and help a person who is struggling within.

But to act out your pain on others? To abuse others? To burden others? To bring others down with you? Hell no. Not an iota of sympathy. People with BPD aren't struggling alone - it is characteristic of them to project, through abuse (not necessarily physical abuse) onto others. Manipulation is abuse. Lying to hurt others is abuse. People with BPD hurt others tremendously, with an emotional pummel after emotional pummel. I do not have empathy for abusers.

PP's have asked about inner experience of borderlines, and by empathy I meant empathy in the sense of being able to imagine a borderline person's inner experience. That may or may not lead to sympathy. I don't have "sympathy" for abusers, murderers, etc, but I can (sometimes) imagine the mental state that leads a person to abuse; i.e., empathize.

The alternative is to divide humans into good and evil, which distorts the reality of the human condition.

But, yeah, you have to take care of yourself and others you're responsible for, even if you might be able to understand/empathize with abusive behavior.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am not sure why a lot of PPs are insisting BPD occurs only in individuals who are abused. This is not correct, although there is significant overlap.

It is a disorder of emotional dysregulation, and there is evidence via PET scans that there are abnormalities in the function of the amygdala, thought to be the seat of the emotions.

In addition, BPD individuals tend to have a highly refined ability to read faces and, thus, pick up the slightest hint of negative emotion, which they take to heart. One way of thinking of BPD individuals is that they are at the extreme end of the emotionally thin skinned.

Yes, they are very difficult to deal with, but they also suffer greatly from their emotional neediness and often seek solace in drugs and alcohol. When they become overwhelmed by all the emotional input they are constantly taking in they often contemplate suicide. Their life is hell.

Well put, PP. Perhaps this can help others to have some empathy for people with BPD.

Nope. No empathy here.

To me, it's a lot like the difference between having empathy and sympathy for someone who commits suicide, versus someone who commits a murder-suicide. Neither are ok, but if you're struggling, just you, within you, pretty much alone in you, I can have sympathy. I feel for that. I would want to support and help a person who is struggling within.

But to act out your pain on others? To abuse others? To burden others? To bring others down with you? Hell no. Not an iota of sympathy. People with BPD aren't struggling alone - it is characteristic of them to project, through abuse (not necessarily physical abuse) onto others. Manipulation is abuse. Lying to hurt others is abuse. People with BPD hurt others tremendously, with an emotional pummel after emotional pummel. I do not have empathy for abusers.

Not all BPDs are abusers and not all abusers have BPD.

A significant characteristic of being BPD is using manipulation, lying, and volatile anger. Perhaps a person with BPD may be in denial that these things hurt people around them. But denial is also a common characteristic of the disorder - they are only able to see the self-hurt, but totally disregard/overlook the hurt/abuse inflicted on others. It's there - they just may not see it.

But I agree that not all abusers have BPD.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am not sure why a lot of PPs are insisting BPD occurs only in individuals who are abused. This is not correct, although there is significant overlap.

It is a disorder of emotional dysregulation, and there is evidence via PET scans that there are abnormalities in the function of the amygdala, thought to be the seat of the emotions.

In addition, BPD individuals tend to have a highly refined ability to read faces and, thus, pick up the slightest hint of negative emotion, which they take to heart. One way of thinking of BPD individuals is that they are at the extreme end of the emotionally thin skinned.

Yes, they are very difficult to deal with, but they also suffer greatly from their emotional neediness and often seek solace in drugs and alcohol. When they become overwhelmed by all the emotional input they are constantly taking in they often contemplate suicide. Their life is hell.

Well put, PP. Perhaps this can help others to have some empathy for people with BPD.

Nope. No empathy here.

To me, it's a lot like the difference between having empathy and sympathy for someone who commits suicide, versus someone who commits a murder-suicide. Neither are ok, but if you're struggling, just you, within you, pretty much alone in you, I can have sympathy. I feel for that. I would want to support and help a person who is struggling within.

But to act out your pain on others? To abuse others? To burden others? To bring others down with you? Hell no. Not an iota of sympathy. People with BPD aren't struggling alone - it is characteristic of them to project, through abuse (not necessarily physical abuse) onto others. Manipulation is abuse. Lying to hurt others is abuse. People with BPD hurt others tremendously, with an emotional pummel after emotional pummel. I do not have empathy for abusers.

Not all BPDs are abusers and not all abusers have BPD.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Am not sure why a lot of PPs are insisting BPD occurs only in individuals who are abused. This is not correct, although there is significant overlap.

It is a disorder of emotional dysregulation, and there is evidence via PET scans that there are abnormalities in the function of the amygdala, thought to be the seat of the emotions.

In addition, BPD individuals tend to have a highly refined ability to read faces and, thus, pick up the slightest hint of negative emotion, which they take to heart. One way of thinking of BPD individuals is that they are at the extreme end of the emotionally thin skinned.

Yes, they are very difficult to deal with, but they also suffer greatly from their emotional neediness and often seek solace in drugs and alcohol. When they become overwhelmed by all the emotional input they are constantly taking in they often contemplate suicide. Their life is hell.

Well put, PP. Perhaps this can help others to have some empathy for people with BPD.

Nope. No empathy here.

To me, it's a lot like the difference between having empathy and sympathy for someone who commits suicide, versus someone who commits a murder-suicide. Neither are ok, but if you're struggling, just you, within you, pretty much alone in you, I can have sympathy. I feel for that. I would want to support and help a person who is struggling within.

But to act out your pain on others? To abuse others? To burden others? To bring others down with you? Hell no. Not an iota of sympathy. People with BPD aren't struggling alone - it is characteristic of them to project, through abuse (not necessarily physical abuse) onto others. Manipulation is abuse. Lying to hurt others is abuse. People with BPD hurt others tremendously, with an emotional pummel after emotional pummel. I do not have empathy for abusers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The essence of a personality disorder is that the patient doesn't believe there's anything wrong with him/her.

The part I don't understand is how do they think other people do it? Do they really think they've been dealt a crap hand and everyone in their life is a horrible human out to get them? Do they not realize that most people are not estranged from all their family members and long-time friends?

That's the deal with the borderline in my life and I just don't understand how she doesn't see that there's a problem.

Yes they do think that. And if you come from an abusive family, you know that more abuse is coming if you let them get close. It is a vicious cycle. I am over 45 years old and my family just reached out with some more abuse after many years away from them. NEVER again.

I posted in response to this too. People from normal families don't understand how destructive abuse is and how important it is to get away and stay away. Abusers will take advantage of any situation they can to inflict pain.