Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are kissing $300. It's solid money. A little more would enable a lot, but that's always going to be the case.

So OP is nuts.

However... What is seriously sad in my view is that the basics: retirement, quality education, healthcare in your old age, a small nest egg for your kids when you pass - all of these things SHOULD be middle class but aren't.

It's ridiculous that it takes an income of $200 or $300 (or as some would argue, more) to achieve these basic fundamentals. Being middle class should afford you all of the above with perhaps some sacrifice - my parents generation experienced that to a large degree - but somewhere in the last 30 years that's changed.

This isn't a rant on the rich or even the shift of wealth, it's a lamentation that as a country we've forgotten that these basics should be basics. Today, when someone says they contribute to 401k, pay for school, have healthcare and a good emergency fund - we don't call them middle class - we call them rich or well off. That's just wrong.

Something needs to change in this country - retirement is now for the rich, quality education (much less college) only for the lucky or the wealthy. I love the US but sometimes it feels like this place has it's priorities all completely fucked.

Signed, middle class rich guy

Yes

Folks, it is time to pack things up and move elsewhere -- we did, and are much happier for it. I think that we need to accept the fact that some cities (NY, SF, now DC) are becoming so expensive that it is difficult for the upper-middle class/upper class to achieve the kind of life they "dream" of. Two ways around that problem. Adjust your expectations and "dreams" of the type of life (great schools, big house, luxury car) an upper-middle/upper-class salary should afford you, and enjoy living in the DC metropolitan area for other reasons. Or, move to a place in this country (and there are still many, many places like this if you are not a "DC"-centric snob) where your healthy salary (or even much less) will buy you that big house, great schools, and luxury car. Take it or leave it, but that is my advice for happiness.

I don't want a big house or luxury car. I love intellectually engaged people, my church, my neighborhood and the unique advantages of living here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the point of these threads?? Statistically, 400k/yr is a lot of money. More than most people make. But if you spend it all on SL repayments, mortgage, childcare, car loan, groceries, utilities, etc. yeah it's not going to *feel* like a lot. But that's true at any income level. If I make twice that and still manage to spend it all or most of it, does that make me middle class too OP? C'mon now.

I get that in a HCOL area, you're going to spend more $ on necessities vs. purely fun stuff. But don't forget that you're actually paying a premium just to live here. Just like you would in Manhattan, SF, SD, LA, etc. If you made 400/yr in Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Buffalo you'd have more to spend after paying your mortgage (and yes, before you bother protesting, each of those cities do have those types of jobs). But do you want to live in those places?

Give me $400K in Pittsburgh and I am out of here tomorrow. Let me know how much I got for my house and wire it to me.

Anonymous wrote:What is the point of these threads?? Statistically, 400k/yr is a lot of money. More than most people make. But if you spend it all on SL repayments, mortgage, childcare, car loan, groceries, utilities, etc. yeah it's not going to *feel* like a lot. But that's true at any income level. If I make twice that and still manage to spend it all or most of it, does that make me middle class too OP? C'mon now.

I get that in a HCOL area, you're going to spend more $ on necessities vs. purely fun stuff. But don't forget that you're actually paying a premium just to live here. Just like you would in Manhattan, SF, SD, LA, etc. If you made 400/yr in Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Buffalo you'd have more to spend after paying your mortgage (and yes, before you bother protesting, each of those cities do have those types of jobs). But do you want to live in those places?

Anonymous wrote:Why is this so difficult for people to understand? If you live in a big expensive city like DC, middle class is from $50-$500K a year. The numbers are easily available by using the google unction. If you live in a smaller city or town, adjust downward. Both are middle class. The middle class is large with a wide range. the upper class begins with a net worth of over $10M and is very different than shopping at DSW.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are kissing $300. It's solid money. A little more would enable a lot, but that's always going to be the case.

So OP is nuts.

However... What is seriously sad in my view is that the basics: retirement, quality education, healthcare in your old age, a small nest egg for your kids when you pass - all of these things SHOULD be middle class but aren't.

It's ridiculous that it takes an income of $200 or $300 (or as some would argue, more) to achieve these basic fundamentals. Being middle class should afford you all of the above with perhaps some sacrifice - my parents generation experienced that to a large degree - but somewhere in the last 30 years that's changed.

This isn't a rant on the rich or even the shift of wealth, it's a lamentation that as a country we've forgotten that these basics should be basics. Today, when someone says they contribute to 401k, pay for school, have healthcare and a good emergency fund - we don't call them middle class - we call them rich or well off. That's just wrong.

Something needs to change in this country - retirement is now for the rich, quality education (much less college) only for the lucky or the wealthy. I love the US but sometimes it feels like this place has it's priorities all completely fucked.

Signed, middle class rich guy

Yes

Folks, it is time to pack things up and move elsewhere -- we did, and are much happier for it. I think that we need to accept the fact that some cities (NY, SF, now DC) are becoming so expensive that it is difficult for the upper-middle class/upper class to achieve the kind of life they "dream" of. Two ways around that problem. Adjust your expectations and "dreams" of the type of life (great schools, big house, luxury car) an upper-middle/upper-class salary should afford you, and enjoy living in the DC metropolitan area for other reasons. Or, move to a place in this country (and there are still many, many places like this if you are not a "DC"-centric snob) where your healthy salary (or even much less) will buy you that big house, great schools, and luxury car. Take it or leave it, but that is my advice for happiness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is this so difficult for people to understand? If you live in a big expensive city like DC, middle class is from $50-$500K a year. The numbers are easily available by using the google unction. If you live in a smaller city or town, adjust downward. Both are middle class. The middle class is large with a wide range. the upper class begins with a net worth of over $10M and is very different than shopping at DSW.

I can buy that upper middle class is $350-400k here. But it isn't middle. Sociologists separate the two.

Anonymous wrote:Why is this so difficult for people to understand? If you live in a big expensive city like DC, middle class is from $50-$500K a year. The numbers are easily available by using the google unction. If you live in a smaller city or town, adjust downward. Both are middle class. The middle class is large with a wide range. the upper class begins with a net worth of over $10M and is very different than shopping at DSW.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep. We're over $300K and have a lot in college and retirement savings (and a nice cash pas in the bank) but I don't feel I could throw $60K at a kitchen Reno without batting an eye, I don't buy expensive clothes, we drive an $11k car, and only own one! We do not live extravagantly and I feel comfortable but I can't fathom how people afford to save when they make less $. My brother makes $250k a year and confessed he doesn't have any $ saved for his 12 year olds college! I think keeping up w/ the joneses is half the problem.

We are similar- We make around $350K, have a nice lifestyle (two vacations/year), go to nice events, live in nice house. We've saved over $2M and I still shop at TJMaxx because I know we have to pay for 2 college educations and our retirement.

This is not a middle class lifestyle.

Middle class is:

Small house that probably needs the kitchen and bathroom(s) updated
Older car
Giving your kids a bit for college. Maybe covering books or a year of tuition. Certainly not funding it all.
Camping for vacation or driving to the nearby beach for a long weekend and staying at a cheaper hotel.

What people think is middle class is crazy

That is what 350k gets you in DC

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep. We're over $300K and have a lot in college and retirement savings (and a nice cash pas in the bank) but I don't feel I could throw $60K at a kitchen Reno without batting an eye, I don't buy expensive clothes, we drive an $11k car, and only own one! We do not live extravagantly and I feel comfortable but I can't fathom how people afford to save when they make less $. My brother makes $250k a year and confessed he doesn't have any $ saved for his 12 year olds college! I think keeping up w/ the joneses is half the problem.

We are similar- We make around $350K, have a nice lifestyle (two vacations/year), go to nice events, live in nice house. We've saved over $2M and I still shop at TJMaxx because I know we have to pay for 2 college educations and our retirement.

This is not a middle class lifestyle.

Middle class is:

Small house that probably needs the kitchen and bathroom(s) updated
Older car
Giving your kids a bit for college. Maybe covering books or a year of tuition. Certainly not funding it all.
Camping for vacation or driving to the nearby beach for a long weekend and staying at a cheaper hotel.

What people think is middle class is crazy

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are kissing $300. It's solid money. A little more would enable a lot, but that's always going to be the case.

So OP is nuts.

However... What is seriously sad in my view is that the basics: retirement, quality education, healthcare in your old age, a small nest egg for your kids when you pass - all of these things SHOULD be middle class but aren't.

It's ridiculous that it takes an income of $200 or $300 (or as some would argue, more) to achieve these basic fundamentals. Being middle class should afford you all of the above with perhaps some sacrifice - my parents generation experienced that to a large degree - but somewhere in the last 30 years that's changed.

This isn't a rant on the rich or even the shift of wealth, it's a lamentation that as a country we've forgotten that these basics should be basics. Today, when someone says they contribute to 401k, pay for school, have healthcare and a good emergency fund - we don't call them middle class - we call them rich or well off. That's just wrong.

Something needs to change in this country - retirement is now for the rich, quality education (much less college) only for the lucky or the wealthy. I love the US but sometimes it feels like this place has it's priorities all completely fucked.

Signed, middle class rich guy

Yes

Anonymous wrote:We are kissing $300. It's solid money. A little more would enable a lot, but that's always going to be the case.

So OP is nuts.

However... What is seriously sad in my view is that the basics: retirement, quality education, healthcare in your old age, a small nest egg for your kids when you pass - all of these things SHOULD be middle class but aren't.

It's ridiculous that it takes an income of $200 or $300 (or as some would argue, more) to achieve these basic fundamentals. Being middle class should afford you all of the above with perhaps some sacrifice - my parents generation experienced that to a large degree - but somewhere in the last 30 years that's changed.

This isn't a rant on the rich or even the shift of wealth, it's a lamentation that as a country we've forgotten that these basics should be basics. Today, when someone says they contribute to 401k, pay for school, have healthcare and a good emergency fund - we don't call them middle class - we call them rich or well off. That's just wrong.

Something needs to change in this country - retirement is now for the rich, quality education (much less college) only for the lucky or the wealthy. I love the US but sometimes it feels like this place has it's priorities all completely fucked.

Signed, middle class rich guy