but I also wonder if it matters since they often seem to pool all tips.

At what restaurant do servers pool their tips? We're not talking about a jar on the counter.

Anonymous wrote:I give 15% for average service. That was always the "standard" as I grew up (I'm 40). Not sure when or why it supposedly moved to 20%.

I do go higher for better than average service, but I also wonder if it matters since they often seem to pool all tips.

Same age range.

Several family members waited tables.

I agree with you completely.

Never heard of 20% being the standard. 20% is the reward for good service.

15% is the standard.

Anonymous wrote:I tip 15%.

While working in the service industry can be hard, I would rather reserve my charity for people in greater need, e.g. health projects in Africa, where one in five children will die before they are ten. Now that is really tough, and a dollar there goes a lot further than a $60 tip on a $300 meal.

That's nice and all but my biggest complaint about a lot of Americans is that there is no sense of community. I was always taught that charity begins "in the home" so to speak and extends outward. If your neighbor is in need, you help him. If not, you move on to others in your neighborhood or city, so on and so forth. I guess it's just a different philosophy but I always felt a true sense of community this way. You're own success is very much tied to the success of your neighbors. It's also a LOT easier to hold local charities accountable for the donations you give.

I work in the non-profit sphere and you would be flabbergasted to know how much the CEOs of these international charities earn. With 10 years, those funds could alleviate hunger in an 10 African nation.

I tip 15%.

While working in the service industry can be hard, I would rather reserve my charity for people in greater need, e.g. health projects in Africa, where one in five children will die before they are ten. Now that is really tough, and a dollar there goes a lot further than a $60 tip on a $300 meal.

"Have you ever worked in a service job? If not, then you have no idea how tough they can be. And for some people, service jobs are their only reasonable option. "

That's the natural consequence for limited skills and education, though.

I always try to find something wrong. Then I get a comped meal and don't leave a tip either

Alcohol is usually sold on a commission basis. So if the restaurant charges $50 for a bottle that the got fo $12, the 'sellers' commission is already included.
Waiters do not report all their income, so they are a gray area for IRS.I do not feel sorry for them, and rarely have I eaten at a place where the waiter does more than take your order and bring you your food.
If a waiter wanted to be a full time employee then that option is available if that is what they want to pursue

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand all the "but just think how hard servers have it." That's why there are other jobs out there. No one is holding a gun to your head to be stuck as a server for any longer than you want or need. Aim higher.

Have you ever worked in a service job? If not, then you have no idea how tough they can be. And for some people, service jobs are their only reasonable option.

DH and I both worked in service jobs when we were younger. We both now work in professional environments in jobs that require a high level of technical (him) and scientific (me) expertise, but we both believe our service jobs were extremely valuable experiences. We will absolutely require our DC to work in a service job for at least a year once he's old enough.

I am 45. I do not ever recall there being a 10% tip standard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you tip on pre or post tax?

Post. Not tipping on tax is cheap.

And this is what I do not understand. Why do you tip on the tax? Do you also tip on a bottle of wine? JA because I am baffled by all this tipping.

I am 50. I remember when the tip was 10%. I guess by the time I am in retirement, the minimum tip will be 40%, if not half the bill. I was at Jaleo's the other day and the suggested tip started at 20%. On the bill the suggested tips were 20, 25 and 30%. I guess they keep moving the tip goal.

When was the standard tip for good service in a sit-down restaurant 10%? 50 is not THAT old. It was 15% throughout the 1970s (my parents had a restaurant).

I've worked in several nicer restaurants in DC during college and grad school (including Jaleo, pp!). Most people calculate the tip based on the pre-tax amount and servers do not expect to be tipped post-tax. It is customary to tip on the entire food+ drink bill, including bottles of wine. It is very unusual and cheap to "deduct" the cost of the wine from the tippable amount. If you can't afford the gratuity, you can't afford the vino. Also servers are required to tip out to the sommelier and bar backs and bar tenders based on a percentage of their alcohol sales, so not tipping them on your alcohol is pretty crappy.

I use the post tax amount to round down to even numbers while still staying around 20%.

So if I have a $76.32 bill with $7.63 tax, the post-tax total is $83.95. I'll add $16.00, which is 20% of $80, and 23.6% of the food & beverage total.

Of course in that case I might notice that I'm about too add up to $99.95 and just round it up again to $100.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you tip on pre or post tax?

Post. Not tipping on tax is cheap.

No, it's not. All tipping guides say use the pre-tax amount.

The "guides" may say it's acceptable .... it's still absurdly cheap. Really, if you can't afford to tip decently on the bill for great service, don't go out.

DP, now that is just not acceptable. If everyone decided that they did not want to tip the way you think is appropriate, who would fill the restaurants. Then how much would the servers receive, the mandatory minimum wage. Put them out of business is your motto.

Not sure I understand what PP is saying, but "Not tipping on tax is cheap" poster is ridiculous.

15% of the amount of your food and beverage is, or at least was, supposed to be the baseline. Society agreed on this. That's what "tipping guidelines" are for.

20% is common, and that's what I typically use. The math is easier, and on all but the biggest bills, it's not that much of a difference.

I do use the post-tax amount in most cases, but not because I think you should tip on the tax. I do it because I can use the 20% math to go a bit above 20% of the actual food & beverage bill.

So if you're tipping 20% and using the post-tax amount, that's a good tip, and the waitress should be happy.

But it makes no sense to say that you are tipping on the tax, or that not tipping on the tax is cheap. Why would you pay the waitress a percentage of what the government has decided you should be taxed on a meal? If the government says 10% restaurant tax (DC), the waitress gets an extra 2%, but if the government says 5% (Fairfax) she only gets 1%--for the exact same food, at the exact same cost, with the exact same service?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you tip on pre or post tax?

Post. Not tipping on tax is cheap.

And this is what I do not understand. Why do you tip on the tax? Do you also tip on a bottle of wine? JA because I am baffled by all this tipping.

I am 50. I remember when the tip was 10%. I guess by the time I am in retirement, the minimum tip will be 40%, if not half the bill. I was at Jaleo's the other day and the suggested tip started at 20%. On the bill the suggested tips were 20, 25 and 30%. I guess they keep moving the tip goal.

Yes, I tip on a bottle of wine. You don't? People don't?

I absolutely tip on a bottle of wine. Also, if we go out to eat and we use a gift card for part of the meal, we tip on the full amount of the meal before the gift card was deducted (e.g., meal was $40, use $20 gift card = tip on $40 not $20). I usually don't tip on the tax. I always tip 20% even for bad service (it would have to be truly, outstandingly horrible for me to go below 20% - think I've done it once in my adult life) but I rarely go above unless I'm rounding a dollar amount up to make the math easier.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you tip on pre or post tax?

Post. Not tipping on tax is cheap.

No, it's not. All tipping guides say use the pre-tax amount.

The "guides" may say it's acceptable .... it's still absurdly cheap. Really, if you can't afford to tip decently on the bill for great service, don't go out.

It's not a question of affordability. And the fact that you suggest it is means you lose this argument by default.

Taxes in some cities are 10% or more. Ergo your 20% tip on a post-tax amount really is a 22% tip. Considering that 15% to 18% is the industry standard, that's really starting to get excessive.

Believe me, I can afford the extra amount. But that's not actually how tipping works, so I don't do it.