Given the 1 out of 70 boys now is diagnosed to be somewhere on the spectrum it is inevitable that we will see more kids with the diagnoses committing crimes. Not because kids with autism are more likely to commit crimes, just because the diagnosis is so common now and young males do commit most crimes (as compared to women).

Anonymous wrote:This has to be the most self-absorbed forum on DCUM, hands down.

+1

Anonymous wrote:How does a parent know their child on the spectrum is a genius if testing and academic performance indicate otherwise?

The WISC gives more than one score. It gives a Full Scale IQ score (which is what most people call "IQ.") It also gives subscores for verbal IQ and performance IQ. Those scores break down further into subtest scores that measure specific abilities (vocabulary, comprehension, verbal reasoning, similarities, matrix reasoning, block design, picture concepts, coding, digit span, cancellation, etc.) Kids with ASDS have verbal deficits and often have attention problems. Those subtest scores tend to be low and to drive down their subtest scores. They tend to produce spikey scores that show remarkable strengths in some areas and big deficits in others. When that happens, the test instructions from the test creators say to disregard the FSIQ because it isn't a good measure. There is an alternate test score called the Global Ability Index (GAI) which should used instead. Even that can underpredict a kid's performance.

Here's a specific example -- my child with HFA has a score on the WISC of 115. That's a good score, but it underpredicts his abilities in certain important areas and overpredicts other areas. He has receptive language deficits, expressive language deficits, and pragmatic language deficits and those show in his verbal score. However, he also shows extremely high abilities in math and nonverbal reasoning. You can see that in his matrix reasoning score, which hit the ceiling on the test. He scored as high as he can score on that section, and on the math. His verbal IQ score is low normal (around 90) and his performance IQ score is around 140. When those are combined into a FSIQ, the FSIQ overpredicts his verbal ability and underpredicts his math/reasoning ability. If he has attention problems on top of that, the distractibility subtests will further drag that FSIQ score down.

A better measure of my kid's ability might be his COGAT, which was in the 99th percentile on all measures when tested at one year above grade level. His IOWA basics scores were also spikey, but showed where his specific deficits are.

I don't claim my kid is a genius, but I would have a fit if someone told me that his ability is limited to what is reflected in his FSIQ score. Not when the test instructions specifically say that if the profile is spikey, you don't use FSIQ. His ability level is considerably above what is reflected on his WISC.

How does a parent know their child on the spectrum is a genius if testing and academic performance indicate otherwise?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS who has an ASD had his IQ double in several years. he didn't become a super genius, its just that his IQ had been artificially depressed because of his difficulty communicating. Same child, radically different IQ score. IQ means extremely little for a person with an ASD. On the one hand, its very, very difficult to get an accurate IQ from someone who has trouble interacting and communicating. On the other hand you have people with ASDs who legitimately have very high IQs but the ASD makes functioning, including academic functioning, difficult. I don't know what kind of professional you are but everything you write makes me hope you have nothing to do with my child.

+1000

If you can't accept that some kids with ASD are of average intelligence no matter what the parents think, then I hope I don't have to work with your kids either. I am too busy attending to students' needs to stroke parents' egos.

You don't have a basic understanding of how IQ tests work (or don't work for kids) with ASDs. You also have little compassion for parents of these kids.

You really don't belong in this field.

Just to clarify for people who are talking about this guy having Asperger's. He was never diagnosed with Asperger's. His family said they thought he had Aspergers, but it was never diagnosed. He's been in therapy since he was 8. If it was an ASD, it would have been diagnosed. The family told people he had Asperger's because whatever he did have was worse.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10857021/Elliot-Rodger-may-have-used-machetes-and-hammer-to-murder-house-mates-in-killing-chamber.html

Are we going to argue that no one on the spectrum could deal successfully with the police?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is reporting that he had an ASD?

I watched his video. It doesn't clearly indicate any of the vocal mannerisms or physical mannerisms that I would associate with an ASD.

Never mind. I just saw that his family says that he has ASD.

Which family member said that?

It appears that he had an unhealthy childhood relationship with his mother, which evolved into rage against women. He was unable to fully separate, and establish his own identity in a healthy way.

He had been in therapy since childhood, but without any formal diagnosis.
How can that be? Was he on meds? What kind and for what?

Seeing how "successfully" he dealt with the police, he may have been a sociopath. He apparently had been planning his massacre for a long time. But didn't his parents ever see his room? Was his mother another Mrs. Lanza? Was his father ever there, considering he's a busy Hollywood director? When his parents finally reported their concern to the police, why didn't THEY show the police their son's bedroom? That would have prevented the killing of innocent people. Maybe they just didn't want to intrude on their son's privacy.

He didn't live with his parents or even in the same city. he was an adult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is reporting that he had an ASD?

I watched his video. It doesn't clearly indicate any of the vocal mannerisms or physical mannerisms that I would associate with an ASD.

Never mind. I just saw that his family says that he has ASD.

Which family member said that?

It appears that he had an unhealthy childhood relationship with his mother, which evolved into rage against women. He was unable to fully separate, and establish his own identity in a healthy way.

He had been in therapy since childhood, but without any formal diagnosis.
How can that be? Was he on meds? What kind and for what?

Seeing how "successfully" he dealt with the police, he may have been a sociopath. He apparently had been planning his massacre for a long time. But didn't his parents ever see his room? Was his mother another Mrs. Lanza? Was his father ever there, considering he's a busy Hollywood director? When his parents finally reported their concern to the police, why didn't THEY show the police their son's bedroom? That would have prevented the killing of innocent people. Maybe they just didn't want to intrude on their son's privacy.

Anonymous wrote:Since this thread has just become an excuse to bash parents of SN kids, I'm checking out and hope everyone else does the same so the thread will die.

+1

Since this thread has just become an excuse to bash parents of SN kids, I'm checking out and hope everyone else does the same so the thread will die.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has to be the most self-absorbed forum on DCUM, hands down.

I, unfortunately, have to agree. Many (NOT all) of these parents are toxic. I work with them every day. Getting them onto healthy parenting patterns, is like pulling teeth. Sorry, guys.

Wow, I wish you would write some identifying information so you would be fired. Toxic? You are the one who sounds toxic.

Parents of kids with ASDs are like any other group of parents, that is to say mixed. (Though having spent time in MANY therapeutic waiting rooms with MANY such parents, I have to say that as a whole they rise to the occasion and are a pretty amazing and empathetic bunch. We have each others' backs.) It sounds like you are putting the parents under an unfair microscope, maybe because you don;t understand how difficult it is and think you could do better. Or maybe you don;t know what the hell you are doing and they don;t follow your directions, so you label them toxic. Or maybe they have shadow ASD characteristics themselves -- which is very frequently the case -- and you are too ignorant to recognize that.

I have an NT child, I have seen toxic parents. They are the ones who over schedule their kids, brag about their kids, make their kids an extension of their narcissism, push their kids to be perfect in everything. You see none of these things in parents of kids with ASDs.

The toxic parents that I know, think that natural consequences are equivalent to child abuse. So consistant consequences simply aren't happening. Based on what I see (20+ years,) this is exactly how many of these problems begin, very early on. Again, my opinion is based on many years of family observations.

This issue is so concerning, that I no longer work with parents who don't progress forward to help their child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has to be the most self-absorbed forum on DCUM, hands down.

I, unfortunately, have to agree. Many (NOT all) of these parents are toxic. I work with them every day. Getting them onto healthy parenting patterns, is like pulling teeth. Sorry, guys.

Here you are.

Anonymous wrote:PP nothing you describes even comes close to your label "toxic." Toxic? How? What I hear is that some parents are going through the very natural process of latching on to what they perceive as their child's strengths in the face of frightening deficits. A totally normal thing for parents of kids with ASDs. As the kids get older the parents attitude to all this changes, generally. This happens as they accept the diagnosis and what it means completely, something that takes time. A little understanding on your part would be nice. This is nothing that even resembles parental toxicity. Not to mention parents of NT kids do the same thing, without any excuse.

You're unhinged here. *I* said toxic. Put down your out of control defensiveness and give it a rest already, would you?

Anonymous wrote:Well, I have a child with an ASD and I have never, ever said to a teacher or anyone else that he's a genius. I've had teachers say that to me and I find it unhelpful. If anything it blinds them to his deficits and they expect things from him that are difficult to impossible.

Well said.

I think there was a wave of pop culture products in the early '90s that gave people the impression that all people on the spectrum have some special gift that can be tapped "Rain Man"-style if the correct trigger is applied.

I wish that all of my students with ASD were appreciated by parents, teachers, peers for whatever they are: gifted, not gifted, interested in STEM, preferring to draw, etc.