Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If you're going to tell families that live in areas that have traditionally fed to those schools that, sorry, there's no room for you anymore, If you're going to tell families that live in areas that have traditionally fed to those schools that, sorry, there's no room for you anymore, then they need options in relative proximity to where they live. That means one of several things: (1) shrink the Wilson boundaries closer to the school; (2) end OOB feeder rights from elementary school; or (3) build a new high school west of Rock Creek Park. they need options in relative proximity to where they live. That means one of several things: (1) shrink the Wilson boundaries closer to the school; (2) end OOB feeder rights from elementary school; or (3) build a new high school west of Rock Creek Park.

Giving students options closer to where they live is precisely what I've been suggesting over and over.

Most of the students who attend Wilson live EOTP. Keep in mind that EOTP does NOT necessarily mean OOB. If those students are "given another option closer to where they live," then you're free to shrink Wilson boundaries.

What you keep calling for instead is to keep all those EOTP high schools half empty and create another high school WOTP.

Okay.

Nobody is "keeping" the EOTP high schools empty. Every one of them accepts every student who applies, any kid in the whole city is welcome to attend them. Students have lots of options "closer to where they live." The problem is not many families want to attend them. More kids who are in-boundary for Cardozo attend Wilson than Cardozo for example.

What DCPS do is force people to go to schools they don't want to go to. It's not politically feasible, and it ends up not working. DCPS has got to create schools that people want to go to, which means studying what makes schools popular. If part of the answer is location, then schools need to be put in locations that are attractive to people.

DCPS is done little to encourage families to attend the EOTP high schools and it's got to know what makes schools popular, without deep study. It's lack of action is a very bad sign.

Anonymous wrote:
What DCPS do is force people to go to schools they don't want to go to.

Meant to write: "What DCPS can't do is force people to go to schools they don't want to go to.

Anonymous wrote:

If you're going to tell families that live in areas that have traditionally fed to those schools that, sorry, there's no room for you anymore, If you're going to tell families that live in areas that have traditionally fed to those schools that, sorry, there's no room for you anymore, then they need options in relative proximity to where they live. That means one of several things: (1) shrink the Wilson boundaries closer to the school; (2) end OOB feeder rights from elementary school; or (3) build a new high school west of Rock Creek Park. they need options in relative proximity to where they live. That means one of several things: (1) shrink the Wilson boundaries closer to the school; (2) end OOB feeder rights from elementary school; or (3) build a new high school west of Rock Creek Park.

Giving students options closer to where they live is precisely what I've been suggesting over and over.

Most of the students who attend Wilson live EOTP. Keep in mind that EOTP does NOT necessarily mean OOB. If those students are "given another option closer to where they live," then you're free to shrink Wilson boundaries.

What you keep calling for instead is to keep all those EOTP high schools half empty and create another high school WOTP.

Okay.

Nobody is "keeping" the EOTP high schools empty. Every one of them accepts every student who applies, any kid in the whole city is welcome to attend them. Students have lots of options "closer to where they live." The problem is not many families want to attend them. More kids who are in-boundary for Cardozo attend Wilson than Cardozo for example.

What DCPS do is force people to go to schools they don't want to go to. It's not politically feasible, and it ends up not working. DCPS has got to create schools that people want to go to, which means studying what makes schools popular. If part of the answer is location, then schools need to be put in locations that are attractive to people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is proposing taking away Duke Ellington. The school would still exist and in a potentially more central and more convenient location, with maybe even nicer facilities.

Ellington isn't going anywhere. These kids have to stay late into the evening to do their art and they're safer in that location than other places in the city.

If you guys want to move Ellington, why don't you talk to the administration, students, and families and see how they feel about it? If you could convince them it was in their interest, maybe you'd have some success but right now it just looks like a power grab.

But transportation from the Ellington location to most of the city is lousy, particularly late in the day. Buses run sporadically and cross-town service is not good. Far better to have it be located more centrally, near Metro. The SW waterfront area, which is being completely rebuilt, would be great -- and safe.

It's clear that's what you think is best for them. Your problem is that you haven't convinced them it's best for them. They seem to think they know better than you do what's best for them and that you trying to tell them otherwise is condescending. Funny, that.

+1

If you're going to tell families that live in areas that have traditionally fed to those schools that, sorry, there's no room for you anymore, If you're going to tell families that live in areas that have traditionally fed to those schools that, sorry, there's no room for you anymore, then they need options in relative proximity to where they live. That means one of several things: (1) shrink the Wilson boundaries closer to the school; (2) end OOB feeder rights from elementary school; or (3) build a new high school west of Rock Creek Park. they need options in relative proximity to where they live. That means one of several things: (1) shrink the Wilson boundaries closer to the school; (2) end OOB feeder rights from elementary school; or (3) build a new high school west of Rock Creek Park.

Giving students options closer to where they live is precisely what I've been suggesting over and over.

Most of the students who attend Wilson live EOTP. Keep in mind that EOTP does NOT necessarily mean OOB. If those students are "given another option closer to where they live," then you're free to shrink Wilson boundaries.

What you keep calling for instead is to keep all those EOTP high schools half empty and create another high school WOTP.

Okay.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The renovation plans for Ellington - with significant private investment will make it a performing arts center, not just a high school. The extra space is going to dance studios, rehearsal rooms with specially-built acoustics, exhibit space, auditoriums and performance halls. It's not just that the students are mostly AA, it's that the school is a school for performing arts. That's what it's meant to be, and there's no other performing arts school anywhere that's also a neighborhood school. Demand that of this one really is repellant.

I don't have the codefordc link that shows the dearth of kids attending DCPS from that part of town, but it's proof that building a new high school there doesn't make sense.

If you want to keep Wilson for WOTP families then put some effort behind other options EOTP where a good percentage of Wilson students live and where projections show that the population if school-aged kids is growing.

Wow, defensive, without adequate explanation for the vitriol. Perhaps this would help ease such an emotional response to the idea: the benefit of the new HS would not only be for "WOTP" residents -- most of the kids going to the feeder schools for the future high school in Ward 2/3 do not live in Wards 2 or 3.

Defensive, or calling for common sense?

Here's a map showing where Wilson's students live. Most of them live EOTP (remember that kids in SW DC are in-boundary) and most of them pass several other half-empty high schools on their way to Ward 3. http://edu.codefordc.org/#!/school/463

Click on this map to see how many students from Georgetown/Burleith/Hillandale are going to any public school - whether it's DCPS or charter. http://edu.codefordc.org/#!/neighborhood/4

Now scroll to figure D.9 in this link to see the population forecast for school aged children over the next 10 years.
http://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/DC%20Public%20Education%20FMP%20Appendix%20D-E_1.pdf

And then try to make your case for a new high school in Wards 2/3.

Most of this is from OOB feeder rights out of elementary schools in Wilson's boundaries.

I personally don't want to make changes to any boundaries. But if the issue that Deal and Wilson are already overcrowded, something has to give. If you're going to tell families that live in areas that have traditionally fed to those schools that, sorry, there's no room for you anymore, then they need options in relative proximity to where they live. That means one of several things: (1) shrink the Wilson boundaries closer to the school; (2) end OOB feeder rights from elementary school; or (3) build a new high school west of Rock Creek Park.

There's been discussion that options 1 and 2 are politically untenable. But the other proposal, that WOTP families be herded to lower performing schools further east is also politically untenable. So, unless DC is going to tighten Wilson boundaries or end OOB feeder rights, option 3, a WOTP high school, is the only option that could fly with upper/west NW families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or of the opinion that trekking across the city (in either direction) for a viable eduction is a complete non-starter. Yeah, or that.

Or, of the belief that there isn't genuine social and political backlash from pushing a largely AA application school out of its home in Georgetown. This seems to be difficult for newcomers, gentrifiers, and generally higher SES white families to understand. There is real insecurity and even justified resentment about the geographic segregation in DC.

We can argue the particulars and justifications all day long, but it doesn't change the long-standing community opinion among a certain - large, and mobilized to vote - segment of the population.

To you, it's demographic common sense. To others, it's being exiled and excluded, and ultimately looks like segregation.

You don't have to agree, but you should understand what the tensions are and why this a hotter potato than you seem to think.

Thank you, Peggy, for explaining The Plan.

Feel free to also educate as to why upper NW will forever have to host UDC, taking up several city blocks, even though exactly zero UDC students live anywhere near the campus.

There were two very illuminating examples of The Plan when Tony Williams was mayor.

First, he suggested moving UDC out of its "brutalist" concrete canyons on Van Ness over to the historic St. Elizabeth's campus in SE. He reasoned that St. E's is closer to more of UDC's students, that it was configured as (and looked like) a real college campus and that new facilities were desperately needed anyway for UDC, His proposal was to sell the UDC site for re-development, and funds would be raised not only to build or renovate UDC facilities at St. E's, but to fund programmatic improvements. Oh, the howls: this was part of The Plan to get African-Americans out of Ward 3, yada, yada, yada! The proposal died.

Second, around the same time, a wealthy lady who owned an estate on Foxhall Road proposed to give the house, property and endowment to the city for a mayoral residence. Oh, the protests: It was "disrespecting DC" to have the mayor live in Ward 3! A mayoral residence should be in SE or SW, but not NW. The proposal died, the bequest was withdrawn, the estate was sold and today is mini-mansions.

Even today, the easiest way to send something sideways is to try to create a racial "issue."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is proposing taking away Duke Ellington. The school would still exist and in a potentially more central and more convenient location, with maybe even nicer facilities.

Ellington isn't going anywhere. These kids have to stay late into the evening to do their art and they're safer in that location than other places in the city.

If you guys want to move Ellington, why don't you talk to the administration, students, and families and see how they feel about it? If you could convince them it was in their interest, maybe you'd have some success but right now it just looks like a power grab.

But transportation from the Ellington location to most of the city is lousy, particularly late in the day. Buses run sporadically and cross-town service is not good. Far better to have it be located more centrally, near Metro. The SW waterfront area, which is being completely rebuilt, would be great -- and safe.

It's clear that's what you think is best for them. Your problem is that you haven't convinced them it's best for them. They seem to think they know better than you do what's best for them and that you trying to tell them otherwise is condescending. Funny, that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is proposing taking away Duke Ellington. The school would still exist and in a potentially more central and more convenient location, with maybe even nicer facilities.

Ellington isn't going anywhere. These kids have to stay late into the evening to do their art and they're safer in that location than other places in the city.

If you guys want to move Ellington, why don't you talk to the administration, students, and families and see how they feel about it? If you could convince them it was in their interest, maybe you'd have some success but right now it just looks like a power grab.

But transportation from the Ellington location to most of the city is lousy, particularly late in the day. Buses run sporadically and cross-town service is not good. Far better to have it be located more centrally, near Metro. The SW waterfront area, which is being completely rebuilt, would be great -- and safe.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nutty idea to combine FS with SWW; another nutty idea to combine Duke Ellington with a neighborhood high school. Enough nutty ideas for one year.

The boundaries for Wilson are also nutty when you look at a map, and have been for a while. The idea of lottery-only high schools is nutty. Setting aside dedicated OOB slots for already-overcrowded schools is also nutty, considering the number of vacant seats in the neighborhood schools where the OOB kids would be coming from. So, why complain about nutty ideas when so much about DCPS policy and decision-making has been and still seems to be nutty. Don't dismiss new ideas as nutty when the nuthouse doesn't show any signs of being impeached as the seat of leadership.

No, they're pretty sensible. It's a regular-shaped, contiguous area. It's large, yes, but not "nutty" like a gerrymandered congressional district or something.

The Wilson boundary is one of the most ridiculous and gerrymandered borders you will ever see. Eight times the size of every other HS boundary and we wonder why the school is overcrowded.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nutty idea to combine FS with SWW; another nutty idea to combine Duke Ellington with a neighborhood high school. Enough nutty ideas for one year.

The boundaries for Wilson are also nutty when you look at a map, and have been for a while. The idea of lottery-only high schools is nutty. Setting aside dedicated OOB slots for already-overcrowded schools is also nutty, considering the number of vacant seats in the neighborhood schools where the OOB kids would be coming from. So, why complain about nutty ideas when so much about DCPS policy and decision-making has been and still seems to be nutty. Don't dismiss new ideas as nutty when the nuthouse doesn't show any signs of being impeached as the seat of leadership.

No, they're pretty sensible. It's a regular-shaped, contiguous area. It's large, yes, but not "nutty" like a gerrymandered congressional district or something.

Anonymous wrote:Nutty idea to combine FS with SWW; another nutty idea to combine Duke Ellington with a neighborhood high school. Enough nutty ideas for one year.

I'd be on guard at Ellington. The FS parents wanted to merge with SWW and look what happened. And now that it's not going well, they're setting their sights on Ellington. Why not just leave the appllicstion schools alone?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nutty idea to combine FS with SWW; another nutty idea to combine Duke Ellington with a neighborhood high school. Enough nutty ideas for one year.

The boundaries for Wilson are also nutty when you look at a map, and have been for a while. The idea of lottery-only high schools is nutty. Setting aside dedicated OOB slots for already-overcrowded schools is also nutty, considering the number of vacant seats in the neighborhood schools where the OOB kids would be coming from. So, why complain about nutty ideas when so much about DCPS policy and decision-making has been and still seems to be nutty. Don't dismiss new ideas as nutty when the nuthouse doesn't show any signs of being impeached as the seat of leadership.

Except that this particular "new" idea is actually an old idea:

We're new to this place which was unimportant before us. If only we could get rid of the pesky old-timers who are not as wealthy as we are. Obviously red-lining is not an option, but perhaps we could squeeze them out with political and economic pressure. After all, they're outsiders now.

Anonymous wrote:Nutty idea to combine FS with SWW; another nutty idea to combine Duke Ellington with a neighborhood high school. Enough nutty ideas for one year.

The boundaries for Wilson are also nutty when you look at a map, and have been for a while. The idea of lottery-only high schools is nutty. Setting aside dedicated OOB slots for already-overcrowded schools is also nutty, considering the number of vacant seats in the neighborhood schools where the OOB kids would be coming from. So, why complain about nutty ideas when so much about DCPS policy and decision-making has been and still seems to be nutty. Don't dismiss new ideas as nutty when the nuthouse doesn't show any signs of being impeached as the seat of leadership.

Nutty idea to combine FS with SWW; another nutty idea to combine Duke Ellington with a neighborhood high school. Enough nutty ideas for one year.