Anonymous wrote:Not sure you are still reading and I had to stop after about the 5 th post. I am usually so kind on here but your post sounds so judgemental..." Am I the only one...etc.". Does your child really have adhd and has been diagnosed by a doctor with testing?

As a parent with an adhd child, medicine was the only thing that helped - with focus, attention, learning, peer group. Your post makes me want to cry and I am years away from this now as I have an amazing, successful son. Why do people post like this....do you really think you are the better parent? NO WAY did I want to give my child meds. I read and read and consulted specialist after specialist, cried endlessly. Would you say " am I the only one not giving my diabetic child insulin. I'm such a better parent and love him more than you do yours as can manage it all by myself." The kids who take meds take it for a medical reason and NEED it. It is not a choice! If you have a choice, maybe your child got the wrong diagnosis.

And while you have pushed my buttons,,,,if it is adhd ( like my son had) He is a pain in class because mine was. I have a quiet, shy kid too and guess what...when your class clown is joking, talking, jumping all day and the teacher constantly has to redirect it bothers my shy, quiet child who comes home stressed and does not like your child. Wow, just wow.

was this part necessary? Was it really important to you to get that last part in, make sure OP reads it, mulls it over? Feel better now?

Believe it or don't believe it I don't care. But I'm calling it now that it will only continue to get worse next year. Kids that are disruptive and impulsive are ALWAYS unpopular with their peers, because other kids simply do not want to be around kids who constantly touch them, get in their personal space, mess with their stuff, make rude and inappropriate noises in their ears, talk over them, constantly try to one up them, and generally miss social cues. They just don't. This kid is already doing this stuff. It is not possible for him to avoid the social consequences of this.

Whether being a social outcast and the resulting negative impact that this has on a child's self-worth and emotional well-being is sufficient justification to medicate is open for debate. But the notion that this particular child is somehow unique among all other kids who display these disruptive behaviors such that he will remain well-liked despite acting in this way is just ridiculous.

Thank you! That is exactly what I was trying to say above! OP is kidding herself if she does not believe this. Lived every word of it. Medicine only thin pg that worked until maturation and puberty.

Not sure you are still reading and I had to stop after about the 5 th post. I am usually so kind on here but your post sounds so judgemental..." Am I the only one...etc.". Does your child really have adhd and has been diagnosed by a doctor with testing?

As a parent with an adhd child, medicine was the only thing that helped - with focus, attention, learning, peer group. Your post makes me want to cry and I am years away from this now as I have an amazing, successful son. Why do people post like this....do you really think you are the better parent? NO WAY did I want to give my child meds. I read and read and consulted specialist after specialist, cried endlessly. Would you say " am I the only one not giving my diabetic child insulin. I'm such a better parent and love him more than you do yours as can manage it all by myself." The kids who take meds take it for a medical reason and NEED it. It is not a choice! If you have a choice, maybe your child got the wrong diagnosis.

And while you have pushed my buttons,,,,if it is adhd ( like my son had) He is a pain in class because mine was. I have a quiet, shy kid too and guess what...when your class clown is joking, talking, jumping all day and the teacher constantly has to redirect it bothers my shy, quiet child who comes home stressed and does not like your child. Wow, just wow.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is 9 and was the class clown too. After he started taking meds in September, he said that so many kids told him that he wasn't annoying anymore. He said he didn't know he was annoying before then since everyone laughed when he goofed off. I've taught 3rd grade and by then, the kids have been around each other since K and they have grown tired of the class clowns. If the teacher is exhausted by his behavior, imagine how his classmates feel. By next year, the kids will start avoiding him and won't include him. If you want to wait and watch it happen, don't complain about it after the fact.

What a jerky thing to say to a parent who is trying to figure out what is best for her kid.

Is she? Is she trying to figure out what is best for her kid? All I see is complaints about the teacher. I don't see her trying to figure out anything.

So if the situation deteriorates for her child then she should just shut her mouth "after teh fact" because, hey, DCUM warned her! Heartless.

Pretty much. Look, we are trying to be helpful here because we have already walked this path and see the trajectory this child is on. It's not heartless -- it's called being truthful and facing reality. The child is already exhibiting these "class clown" behaviors, and we are pointing out that these behaviors significantly annoy other children and will ABSOLUTELY lead to him being socially outcast if it hasn't happened already, notwithstanding her belief that her kid is well liked. We are not talking about some future theoretical problem, but one that is already occurring or just around the corner, and she is just in denial about it. I do think part of a parent's job is to anticipate the obvious and foreseeable future consequences and nip problems in the bud.

Believe it or don't believe it I don't care. But I'm calling it now that it will only continue to get worse next year. Kids that are disruptive and impulsive are ALWAYS unpopular with their peers, because other kids simply do not want to be around kids who constantly touch them, get in their personal space, mess with their stuff, make rude and inappropriate noises in their ears, talk over them, constantly try to one up them, and generally miss social cues. They just don't. This kid is already doing this stuff. It is not possible for him to avoid the social consequences of this.

Whether being a social outcast and the resulting negative impact that this has on a child's self-worth and emotional well-being is sufficient justification to medicate is open for debate. But the notion that this particular child is somehow unique among all other kids who display these disruptive behaviors such that he will remain well-liked despite acting in this way is just ridiculous.

What I expect to see is a little more heart for this woman who is walking the path that you are already on. Maybe she's not making the choices you would make. Maybe she's not making the "right" choices, but don't tell her that she's making her bed and she'll have to lie in it without complaint if her son crashes and burns. That's not helpful.

Well said. To the PPP, what it really seems like is that you are criticizing the OP as a way to justify your own decisions. For one thing, medication is just ONE tool, not the magic solution to all of your child's issues. Have a little compassion and be more open minded to others and their choices.

Listen, OP is the one who is completely shutting down the options, not me. Most posters, including me, have repeatedly acknowledged that medication isn't always the right choice. In fact, over many years of dealing with this, there have been periods where we have chosen NOT to medicate, so I am well versed in this stuff and comfortable in my choices. No one has said, "OP, you need to medicate your child." I am respectful of any parents decision to not medicate, but I question the soundness of the rationale underlying OP's choice. I think her twin premises that (1) we don't know the long term effect of these medications and (2) her child would not be suffering but for the fact that he somehow "stands out" by not being medicated is faulty. It is BECAUSE I have compassion for her that I'm even bothering to waste my energy trying to help her think things through in another way, because clearly whatever she is doing is not working and her kid is suffering.

As to the first point, I don't know the long term effect of giving my kid Zyrtec ever day, but I sure as heck am not going to allow him to suffer horrible allergies for 3 months of the year, during which time he will not be able to sleep, breath or function because he is so itchy and his eyes and nose are streaming nonstop. If I didn't give my kids allergy medications his quality of life would be horrible from April through June, and he would not function in school or at home. I don't know the long term effect that wearing soft contact lenses every day may have on my eyes, but I'm not going to walk around blind and I'm not going to walk around in coke bottle glasses until I die. My friend with Lupus DOES know the long term effect of her steroid medications, but she takes them any way to keep the unbearable joint pain at bay. What symptoms would your kids have to have for you to feel comfortable giving your kids these very drugs, knowing exactly what we know about them today? It is probably without dispute that every "anti medication" parent would give their kids these meds if they would, say, cure cancer or something super serious like that, right? But what if you kid had tinnitus -- a constant and unrelenting ringing in the ears that would not kill him but would never stop -- and the only thing that would stop the ringing was these stimulant meds. Would you feel they were sufficiently safe to administer them then? What if he had a constant, low grade toothache pain that never went away, except with these meds. Again, the toothache won't kill him but it would hurt nonstop, all day and all night. Would you feel these medications were worth the risk then? What if your kid had a giant, ugly growth the size of a grapefruit growing out of his forehead, which caused no physical pain or other negative effect whatsoever, and these meds, taken daily, would shrink the growth. Knowing exactly what we know about the safety of these medications, would you allow your child to take them? I suspect most parents would be comfortable giving these meds if their kids suffered physically, and probably a great number would give them if their kids suffered emotionally as the result of something that was physically visible (like the growth).

As to the second point, that the only reason her child is suffering any negative consequences is because of a bad teacher, we are also pointing out that that is not the case. Whether there is 1 kid like this in a class or 10, these behaviors themselves are inherently annoying and people don't want to be around them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes meds are necessary, but I don't think every unmedicated kid suffers without them. It's an overstatement to blame substance abuse problems at 50 on being unmedicated at 10. ADHD sufferers are frequent substance abusers, regardless of whether or not they use meds as kids. Some studies have found that med use increases the risk of substance abuse, not decreases it.

Brock and Fernette Eide are Harvard educated doctors who specialize in working with SN kids. They are tremendous diagnosticians and have written extensively about ADHD. They are cautious on drug use for kids with ADHD. They acknowledge that it is necessary for some kids, but believe that kids who can do without meds should not be given meds. You might want to check out their book "The Mislabeled Child."

Way too much of a generalization pp. Every situation is different and it is up to parent/doctor team how to effectively treat.

And the substance abuse problems don't wait until age 50. They begin early, as a way to self-medicate.
Impulsive decision making, poor school performance, and difficulty making healthy friendships all contribute here.

GP OP!

So glad that you see my point.

If you are OP, I don't see your point. Your DS is suffering without meds.

Not OP. I was the PP.

Anonymous wrote:

Do you do any of the following?

1) Have him do 30 minutes of real exercise before school every day and more after school? Does he have breakfast with a decent amount of protein?
2) Does your school have an individual trampoline in a special ed room where kids can go to jump for ten minutes if they need to let off some energy? This is what my ES school had and it was written into some children's IEP that it be available.
3) Does he have any fidgets?
4) Does he have an exercise ball for a chair? or can he stand at a desk instead of sit?
5) Have you tried relaxation yoga or meditation?
6) Does your school have a labyrinth to walk at recess?
7) Does he have a positive behavior chart on his desk? Written into his IEP?
8) Does he get frequent breaks?
9) Can he take tests in a smaller classroom with fewer children?
10) Does he see a psychologist or LCSW that is experienced with ADHD?
11) Has he every been to a social skills group?
12) Does he get positive reinforcement at home?

I am a new poster, but with a younger child with ADHD and 'class clown' disruptive impulsive behavior. I just wanted to thank you for this, because we are trying to figure out what to do at this point. We are new to this, and DS is too young to medicate (as per us and our dev. ped), but we do want to learn what else we can do. He doesn't have an IEP (we thought we would wait until the new year) but there are other great suggestions. He gets frequent braks and movement breaks, and his class doesn't have desks that they need to sit at much. We got fidgets and are shopping around for a psychologist (thanks to posts on this board) and are working on positive reinforcement at home, but I don't know what's goign on at school.

isn't a trampoline a head injury risk? DS would love it, but this has stopped us, especialy as he is not that coordinated (some dyspraxia in fact).

We keep my ADHD kid (who is 9) in a lot of exercise. It doesn't have to be a trampoline. We have a slack line (bouncy, but no frame to run into if you fall off) in our back yard. We also have a big swing. We bought both of them at Hearth Song.

He walks to school in the morning.

We also go to karate 2X per week and swimming and gymnastics and recently a circus arts class. Karate is good for discipline and coordination. The other things are just a way to spend his energy on positive things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is 9 and was the class clown too. After he started taking meds in September, he said that so many kids told him that he wasn't annoying anymore. He said he didn't know he was annoying before then since everyone laughed when he goofed off. I've taught 3rd grade and by then, the kids have been around each other since K and they have grown tired of the class clowns. If the teacher is exhausted by his behavior, imagine how his classmates feel. By next year, the kids will start avoiding him and won't include him. If you want to wait and watch it happen, don't complain about it after the fact.

What a jerky thing to say to a parent who is trying to figure out what is best for her kid.

Is she? Is she trying to figure out what is best for her kid? All I see is complaints about the teacher. I don't see her trying to figure out anything.

So if the situation deteriorates for her child then she should just shut her mouth "after teh fact" because, hey, DCUM warned her! Heartless.

Pretty much. Look, we are trying to be helpful here because we have already walked this path and see the trajectory this child is on. It's not heartless -- it's called being truthful and facing reality. The child is already exhibiting these "class clown" behaviors, and we are pointing out that these behaviors significantly annoy other children and will ABSOLUTELY lead to him being socially outcast if it hasn't happened already, notwithstanding her belief that her kid is well liked. We are not talking about some future theoretical problem, but one that is already occurring or just around the corner, and she is just in denial about it. I do think part of a parent's job is to anticipate the obvious and foreseeable future consequences and nip problems in the bud.

Believe it or don't believe it I don't care. But I'm calling it now that it will only continue to get worse next year. Kids that are disruptive and impulsive are ALWAYS unpopular with their peers, because other kids simply do not want to be around kids who constantly touch them, get in their personal space, mess with their stuff, make rude and inappropriate noises in their ears, talk over them, constantly try to one up them, and generally miss social cues. They just don't. This kid is already doing this stuff. It is not possible for him to avoid the social consequences of this.

Whether being a social outcast and the resulting negative impact that this has on a child's self-worth and emotional well-being is sufficient justification to medicate is open for debate. But the notion that this particular child is somehow unique among all other kids who display these disruptive behaviors such that he will remain well-liked despite acting in this way is just ridiculous.

What I expect to see is a little more heart for this woman who is walking the path that you are already on. Maybe she's not making the choices you would make. Maybe she's not making the "right" choices, but don't tell her that she's making her bed and she'll have to lie in it without complaint if her son crashes and burns. That's not helpful.

Well said. To the PPP, what it really seems like is that you are criticizing the OP as a way to justify your own decisions. For one thing, medication is just ONE tool, not the magic solution to all of your child's issues. Have a little compassion and be more open minded to others and their choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is 9 and was the class clown too. After he started taking meds in September, he said that so many kids told him that he wasn't annoying anymore. He said he didn't know he was annoying before then since everyone laughed when he goofed off. I've taught 3rd grade and by then, the kids have been around each other since K and they have grown tired of the class clowns. If the teacher is exhausted by his behavior, imagine how his classmates feel. By next year, the kids will start avoiding him and won't include him. If you want to wait and watch it happen, don't complain about it after the fact.

What a jerky thing to say to a parent who is trying to figure out what is best for her kid.

Is she? Is she trying to figure out what is best for her kid? All I see is complaints about the teacher. I don't see her trying to figure out anything.

So if the situation deteriorates for her child then she should just shut her mouth "after teh fact" because, hey, DCUM warned her! Heartless.

Pretty much. Look, we are trying to be helpful here because we have already walked this path and see the trajectory this child is on. It's not heartless -- it's called being truthful and facing reality. The child is already exhibiting these "class clown" behaviors, and we are pointing out that these behaviors significantly annoy other children and will ABSOLUTELY lead to him being socially outcast if it hasn't happened already, notwithstanding her belief that her kid is well liked. We are not talking about some future theoretical problem, but one that is already occurring or just around the corner, and she is just in denial about it. I do think part of a parent's job is to anticipate the obvious and foreseeable future consequences and nip problems in the bud.

Believe it or don't believe it I don't care. But I'm calling it now that it will only continue to get worse next year. Kids that are disruptive and impulsive are ALWAYS unpopular with their peers, because other kids simply do not want to be around kids who constantly touch them, get in their personal space, mess with their stuff, make rude and inappropriate noises in their ears, talk over them, constantly try to one up them, and generally miss social cues. They just don't. This kid is already doing this stuff. It is not possible for him to avoid the social consequences of this.

Whether being a social outcast and the resulting negative impact that this has on a child's self-worth and emotional well-being is sufficient justification to medicate is open for debate. But the notion that this particular child is somehow unique among all other kids who display these disruptive behaviors such that he will remain well-liked despite acting in this way is just ridiculous.

What I expect to see is a little more heart for this woman who is walking the path that you are already on. Maybe she's not making the choices you would make. Maybe she's not making the "right" choices, but don't tell her that she's making her bed and she'll have to lie in it without complaint if her son crashes and burns. That's not helpful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is 9 and was the class clown too. After he started taking meds in September, he said that so many kids told him that he wasn't annoying anymore. He said he didn't know he was annoying before then since everyone laughed when he goofed off. I've taught 3rd grade and by then, the kids have been around each other since K and they have grown tired of the class clowns. If the teacher is exhausted by his behavior, imagine how his classmates feel. By next year, the kids will start avoiding him and won't include him. If you want to wait and watch it happen, don't complain about it after the fact.

What a jerky thing to say to a parent who is trying to figure out what is best for her kid.

Is she? Is she trying to figure out what is best for her kid? All I see is complaints about the teacher. I don't see her trying to figure out anything.

So if the situation deteriorates for her child then she should just shut her mouth "after teh fact" because, hey, DCUM warned her! Heartless.

Pretty much. Look, we are trying to be helpful here because we have already walked this path and see the trajectory this child is on. It's not heartless -- it's called being truthful and facing reality. The child is already exhibiting these "class clown" behaviors, and we are pointing out that these behaviors significantly annoy other children and will ABSOLUTELY lead to him being socially outcast if it hasn't happened already, notwithstanding her belief that her kid is well liked. We are not talking about some future theoretical problem, but one that is already occurring or just around the corner, and she is just in denial about it. I do think part of a parent's job is to anticipate the obvious and foreseeable future consequences and nip problems in the bud.

Believe it or don't believe it I don't care. But I'm calling it now that it will only continue to get worse next year. Kids that are disruptive and impulsive are ALWAYS unpopular with their peers, because other kids simply do not want to be around kids who constantly touch them, get in their personal space, mess with their stuff, make rude and inappropriate noises in their ears, talk over them, constantly try to one up them, and generally miss social cues. They just don't. This kid is already doing this stuff. It is not possible for him to avoid the social consequences of this.

Whether being a social outcast and the resulting negative impact that this has on a child's self-worth and emotional well-being is sufficient justification to medicate is open for debate. But the notion that this particular child is somehow unique among all other kids who display these disruptive behaviors such that he will remain well-liked despite acting in this way is just ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:Spend some time in the classroom so you can see how your child is at school. That might help you decide what to do next.

That can be difficult as many children act differently when their parent(s) are present. BTDTGTTS. A third party is a better bet.

Spend some time in the classroom so you can see how your child is at school. That might help you decide what to do next.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is 9 and was the class clown too. After he started taking meds in September, he said that so many kids told him that he wasn't annoying anymore. He said he didn't know he was annoying before then since everyone laughed when he goofed off. I've taught 3rd grade and by then, the kids have been around each other since K and they have grown tired of the class clowns. If the teacher is exhausted by his behavior, imagine how his classmates feel. By next year, the kids will start avoiding him and won't include him. If you want to wait and watch it happen, don't complain about it after the fact.

What a jerky thing to say to a parent who is trying to figure out what is best for her kid.

Is she? Is she trying to figure out what is best for her kid? All I see is complaints about the teacher. I don't see her trying to figure out anything.

So if the situation deteriorates for her child then she should just shut her mouth "after teh fact" because, hey, DCUM warned her! Heartless.

There are these small, indoor mini-trampolines. My DD has one in her room to burn off energy, it really does help.

Anonymous wrote:

Do you do any of the following?

1) Have him do 30 minutes of real exercise before school every day and more after school? Does he have breakfast with a decent amount of protein?
2) Does your school have an individual trampoline in a special ed room where kids can go to jump for ten minutes if they need to let off some energy? This is what my ES school had and it was written into some children's IEP that it be available.
3) Does he have any fidgets?
4) Does he have an exercise ball for a chair? or can he stand at a desk instead of sit?
5) Have you tried relaxation yoga or meditation?
6) Does your school have a labyrinth to walk at recess?
7) Does he have a positive behavior chart on his desk? Written into his IEP?
8) Does he get frequent breaks?
9) Can he take tests in a smaller classroom with fewer children?
10) Does he see a psychologist or LCSW that is experienced with ADHD?
11) Has he every been to a social skills group?
12) Does he get positive reinforcement at home?

I am a new poster, but with a younger child with ADHD and 'class clown' disruptive impulsive behavior. I just wanted to thank you for this, because we are trying to figure out what to do at this point. We are new to this, and DS is too young to medicate (as per us and our dev. ped), but we do want to learn what else we can do. He doesn't have an IEP (we thought we would wait until the new year) but there are other great suggestions. He gets frequent braks and movement breaks, and his class doesn't have desks that they need to sit at much. We got fidgets and are shopping around for a psychologist (thanks to posts on this board) and are working on positive reinforcement at home, but I don't know what's goign on at school.

isn't a trampoline a head injury risk? DS would love it, but this has stopped us, especialy as he is not that coordinated (some dyspraxia in fact).

It is a jogger/individual type of trampoline.

http://t.sportsauthority.com/Pure-Fun-Kids-Jumper-Trampoline/product.jsp?productId=3889410&srccode=cii_17588969&cpncode=34-180405589-2

http://t.dickssportinggoods.com/product/index.jsp?productId=24698296&camp=CSE:GooglePLA:24698296:16976813:EXERCISE&cagpspn=pla&CAWELAID=120138600000148813&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=120138600000329554&cadevice=t

Do you do any of the following?

1) Have him do 30 minutes of real exercise before school every day and more after school? Does he have breakfast with a decent amount of protein?
2) Does your school have an individual trampoline in a special ed room where kids can go to jump for ten minutes if they need to let off some energy? This is what my ES school had and it was written into some children's IEP that it be available.
3) Does he have any fidgets?
4) Does he have an exercise ball for a chair? or can he stand at a desk instead of sit?
5) Have you tried relaxation yoga or meditation?
6) Does your school have a labyrinth to walk at recess?
7) Does he have a positive behavior chart on his desk? Written into his IEP?
8) Does he get frequent breaks?
9) Can he take tests in a smaller classroom with fewer children?
10) Does he see a psychologist or LCSW that is experienced with ADHD?
11) Has he every been to a social skills group?
12) Does he get positive reinforcement at home?

I am a new poster, but with a younger child with ADHD and 'class clown' disruptive impulsive behavior. I just wanted to thank you for this, because we are trying to figure out what to do at this point. We are new to this, and DS is too young to medicate (as per us and our dev. ped), but we do want to learn what else we can do. He doesn't have an IEP (we thought we would wait until the new year) but there are other great suggestions. He gets frequent braks and movement breaks, and his class doesn't have desks that they need to sit at much. We got fidgets and are shopping around for a psychologist (thanks to posts on this board) and are working on positive reinforcement at home, but I don't know what's goign on at school.

isn't a trampoline a head injury risk? DS would love it, but this has stopped us, especialy as he is not that coordinated (some dyspraxia in fact).