Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 20:51     Subject: Re:Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:My 6 year old can clean her room from hurricane status to near spotless in about 30 minutes, because the room is laid out well, everything has a home, and she's been taught since around 2 that putting her stuff away is her job. So yes, "clean your own room" is certainly age-appropriate.

That said, the reason my kid can do this at 6 is she's been asked, consistently, to do this, taught how, etc. It's not a foreign task to her. It's an everyday thing. You want to watch tv/play iPad/have treats/go to the ball? Clean your room first.

Not the case in OP's story. Also? "Here, I'll help you. Oh, you're not doing it right, well cancel all the things, then. I'm out." is a pretty ridiculous, overdramatic, entirely ineffective parenting strategy.

But the kid is the problem. Clearly. And we're asked to back up the OP's crap parenting.


+1
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 20:49     Subject: Re:Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Mom doesn't make kid tidy room regularly. Offers little to no direction on how room is to be kept.

Imposes out-of-character deadline.

Does not supervise for an hour.

And we're blaming the *kid* for being a "hoarder"?

This forum...


Your concerns would be valid if the child was 5. The child was 11. Mom's expectations were age appropriate.


I haven't supervised my girls cleaning their rooms since they were probably around 6 years old. Can an 11 year old in your world really not handle an hour of "unsupervised" time productively when given a specific task? That seems like really low expectations and a lack of responsibility to me.


My 6 year old can clean her room from hurricane status to near spotless in about 30 minutes, because the room is laid out well, everything has a home, and she's been taught since around 2 that putting her stuff away is her job. So yes, "clean your own room" is certainly age-appropriate.

That said, the reason my kid can do this at 6 is she's been asked, consistently, to do this, taught how, etc. It's not a foreign task to her. It's an everyday thing. You want to watch tv/play iPad/have treats/go to the ball? Clean your room first.

Not the case in OP's story. Also? "Here, I'll help you. Oh, you're not doing it right, well cancel all the things, then. I'm out." is a pretty ridiculous, overdramatic, entirely ineffective parenting strategy.

But the kid is the problem. Clearly. And we're asked to back up the OP's crap parenting.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 19:09     Subject: Re:Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Mom doesn't make kid tidy room regularly. Offers little to no direction on how room is to be kept.

Imposes out-of-character deadline.

Does not supervise for an hour.

And we're blaming the *kid* for being a "hoarder"?

This forum...


Your concerns would be valid if the child was 5. The child was 11. Mom's expectations were age appropriate.


I haven't supervised my girls cleaning their rooms since they were probably around 6 years old. Can an 11 year old in your world really not handle an hour of "unsupervised" time productively when given a specific task? That seems like really low expectations and a lack of responsibility to me.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 19:01     Subject: Re:Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:Mom doesn't make kid tidy room regularly. Offers little to no direction on how room is to be kept.

Imposes out-of-character deadline.

Does not supervise for an hour.

And we're blaming the *kid* for being a "hoarder"?

This forum...


Your concerns would be valid if the child was 5. The child was 11. Mom's expectations were age appropriate.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 18:44     Subject: Re:Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Mom doesn't make kid tidy room regularly. Offers little to no direction on how room is to be kept.

Imposes out-of-character deadline.

Does not supervise for an hour.

And we're blaming the *kid* for being a "hoarder"?

This forum...
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 18:37     Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Next time you might lay out an easier plan - let's clean a 1/2 hour each day until it's done. You can clean alone one day and I will help the next.

Also sounds like she needs help learning how to let go of things. Better to learn this now.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 18:27     Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How old is she?


11. I found a math test from December and wanted to throw it out. She was crying she wants to keep it because it's good. The problem is she wants to keep EVERYTHING. There is literally no carpet space without crap on it. She wants to keep a Hello Kitty wrapper because she likes the picture. She wants to keep the Build-a-Bear box (the bear does not live in it) because she likes the box. And on and on.


Whoa. She shouldn't throw out her math tests until the year is over. She may need them to study off of for the final exam. And what's wrong with wanting to keep a good test?? I still have essays I wrote in high school.

The toys are another story. But really, you should not be telling her to throw out tests in classes she is still taking.


AND teachers do lose things, on occasion. She definitely shouldn't be throwing out a math test from December.


WTF??? We throw out tests once ds brings it home, why keep it? They don't really use them to study from. My kids don't.


1. In case the grade was recorded incorrectly or lost by the teacher you should at least keep graded assignments until the end of the grading period after report cards have been issued.

2. By middle school kids are often required to keep organized binders for certain classes containing their notes along with current and past assignments. Sometimes this is for a grade. I would not want my kid to have established a conflicting habit in elementary school if this is a potential expectation for middle school.

3. Many classes in high school have cumulative finals and it can be a beneficial study strategy to work the problems or go over the questions you missed on old tests.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 18:04     Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was a sentimental keep everything kid. For various reasons my things were vary important to me. My mom used to go through my things and throw them out and it caused a serious rift in our relationship. It showed me...

....that she didn't care about what was important to me
....that she didn't know me very well to think that it would be okay to throw my stuff out (just because she wouldn't care about those things, then she assumed I wouldn't care about them either).
...that nothing of mine was really mine - that she felt she could do with it as she wanted
...that she had no respect for me (finding things you care about in the trash and knowing they were taken from your space and put there intentionally feels disrespectful).

In the end all her actions did was make me feel even more like keeping stuff, I just got better at hiding it in places she couldn't find. She still found things and threw them out assuming they were of no value since she didn't value them. It was the main reason I really stopped trusting her and no longer confided anything in her as I got into my teen years. I still went on to be a controlled hoarder, and still am, and her throwing out my stuff made it worse.

She gets mad because every time she comes to my house I tell her that she is not to throw a single thing out without my permission. This is no longer her space to do as she pleases and I will not let her continue to disrespect me that way now that I can have a voice. I don't allow her in the bedrooms or anywhere I have my 'stuff'. I don't trust her judgment of what has value to me.



I hope you got help at some point.

Your mother was going about handling it wrong, but it sounds like you might well have a problem. I hope you have found a safe therapeutic place to deal with it, especially if you have kids.


No, I haven't ever done therapy because it doesn't really interfere with my life. I just have too much stuff. My house is sanitary and most of my 'stuff' is in bins. There isn't rotting food, or dead animals or paths through piles. It is also contained to two rooms, neither of which are communal family spaces. I have a storage locker too so extra bins go there. I don't pick up trash and keep it and I throw out actual trash at home - the kids don't even really know I have too much stuff. I don't keep 'everything' - just far more than I need to.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 17:57     Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:I was a sentimental keep everything kid. For various reasons my things were vary important to me. My mom used to go through my things and throw them out and it caused a serious rift in our relationship. It showed me...

....that she didn't care about what was important to me
....that she didn't know me very well to think that it would be okay to throw my stuff out (just because she wouldn't care about those things, then she assumed I wouldn't care about them either).
...that nothing of mine was really mine - that she felt she could do with it as she wanted
...that she had no respect for me (finding things you care about in the trash and knowing they were taken from your space and put there intentionally feels disrespectful).

In the end all her actions did was make me feel even more like keeping stuff, I just got better at hiding it in places she couldn't find. She still found things and threw them out assuming they were of no value since she didn't value them. It was the main reason I really stopped trusting her and no longer confided anything in her as I got into my teen years. I still went on to be a controlled hoarder, and still am, and her throwing out my stuff made it worse.

She gets mad because every time she comes to my house I tell her that she is not to throw a single thing out without my permission. This is no longer her space to do as she pleases and I will not let her continue to disrespect me that way now that I can have a voice. I don't allow her in the bedrooms or anywhere I have my 'stuff'. I don't trust her judgment of what has value to me.



I hope you got help at some point.

Your mother was going about handling it wrong, but it sounds like you might well have a problem. I hope you have found a safe therapeutic place to deal with it, especially if you have kids.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 17:50     Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:I am 16:44. Having been like your daughter, going in and throwing all of her stuff out without her like PPs have said I think is a really bad idea. You need to do it together.

Since OP’s DD has already shown that she is overwhelmed by the process of cleaning the room, even with offers of help, I would advise a middle approach. This will take a lot of work on OP’s part but might be worth it in the end.

On her own, OP should clean out, strip, and clean up the entire room. EVERYTHING out of the room except for a freshly made bed with pillows but no stuffed animals (if she still has them) and empty furniture including emptying the closet, dressers, bookshelf, desk, etc. Dust everything, vacuum, do all the deep cleaning while it’s empty.

But wait, you say, ‘where did all the stuff go?’. Well, that’s the fun (sarcasm alert) and time consuming part. Because it is all to be sorted into categories somewhere outside of the room for OP and DD to go through together. Instead of forcing DD to decide what she will get rid of from the room, DD is empowered to decide what can go back in the room to be kept. OP should do the sorting on her own before DD gets home:

1. Food wrappers, used tissues, stained stuff, and gross stuff is trash. Throw it out now never to be seen again.
2. Random “trash-like” stuff that DD will claim is “art supplies” goes in one area, pile, or trash bag (clearly marked to NOT throw out yet). Buy her a bin or two for somewhere in her room. When she gets home, let her know that she may keep X number of bins full of art stuff provided that what is not in use is contained within the securely closed bins, and then let her pick what stays and what goes.
3. School work. She automatically keeps anything from the current school year (help her organize it somehow). Older work – limit to one folder or section of a file box per year; have her pick what is important enough to keep and what can go.
4. Clothing. Figure out what she has room for in her dressers/closet. Let her know she must store or donate anything that doesn't fit and that she may only keep X number of each garment (up to the number you determined can fit in the drawer).
5. Books. Same as clothes, she can keep what she has room for on the bookshelf.
6. Toys/stuffed animals. Same as clothes and books. Whatever she has room to store is the maximum number she can keep. Help her determine this number and then let her decide what stays and what goes.

If DD is paralyzed by indecision OP should help her start the process of deciding keep/donate/toss. Ask her questions like “what is this”, “what do you use it for”, “do you still like/use/wear this?”, “do you like ___ or ____ better?”, “when is the last time you used this?*”, and “how often do you use this?*”. * Our house guideline is if you haven’t used a non-seasonal item in a year you should most likely toss it.

If DD is stubborn and defiant and refuses to decide on her own or participate in the decision process with mom’s assistance she’s showing that she is not currently ready to take responsibility for her own stuff and you should start making the keep/donate/toss choices. If you have to do this, let her know that you will keep a much smaller amount of stuff than she would because you don’t want all the stuff to be overwhelming to her.

Take all of the stuff that DD or you decided was to be kept and bring it back into the room. Have DD help you put it all away so she can decide where it all goes. If she is again defiant and refuses to participate, that’s fine you will put the stuff away but since DD is being rude and wasting your time by not being helpful she will be losing some sort of a privilege as a consequence.

When everything has been put back into its proper place and the room is nice and neat with no major clutter, take pictures of each area of the room. This is so you and DD can remember what it looks like when it is clean. It might be an inspiration to her to keep it this way, or it might simply be able to be used later as a visual reminder of what “clean” means for her bedroom.

Now that you've done all that work, the important part is to maintain it. This is where you set and communicate clear expectations for DD. I would advise requiring her to clean her room on a regular basis. Weekly is one option, and each weekend she would make sure if she accumulated extra stuff over the week it still fits where it should or she will choose something to replace. Another option would be that every day before bed she tidies up the room and puts everything in its place. Choose whatever works for you, but the important thing is to stay on top of it regularly so it doesn't have a chance to get out of control again.

You’re going to have to provide a very detailed and specific written model or step-by-step list of exactly how to clean the room so that DD doesn't just feel overwhelmed and stop doing it. Refer her to the pictures you took previously if that would help her. I have something available that you might be able to adapt for this purpose, let me know if you want me to post it.

I know this seems like a ton of work on your part and like you are doing more work than DD is, and to be honest that is true. But she seems completely overwhelmed and paralyzed by the idea of cleaning the room properly and throwing stuff out, so she might not actually be able to manage the task at the level of mess the room is right now. By you getting rid of the huge overwhelming-feeling mess you've broken the cycle she’s possibly stuck in and made her see that getting the room under control is possible. By working with her step by step and using the categories and the questions to decide what to keep, you’re teaching her a method she can use in the future to keep her stuff under control. Maybe at 11 she should be able to do this on her own but this situation has shown clearly that she can’t yet and still needs your help. Good luck.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 17:41     Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was a sentimental keep everything kid. For various reasons my things were vary important to me. My mom used to go through my things and throw them out and it caused a serious rift in our relationship. It showed me...

....that she didn't care about what was important to me
....that she didn't know me very well to think that it would be okay to throw my stuff out (just because she wouldn't care about those things, then she assumed I wouldn't care about them either).
...that nothing of mine was really mine - that she felt she could do with it as she wanted
...that she had no respect for me (finding things you care about in the trash and knowing they were taken from your space and put there intentionally feels disrespectful).

In the end all her actions did was make me feel even more like keeping stuff, I just got better at hiding it in places she couldn't find. She still found things and threw them out assuming they were of no value since she didn't value them. It was the main reason I really stopped trusting her and no longer confided anything in her as I got into my teen years. I still went on to be a controlled hoarder, and still am, and her throwing out my stuff made it worse.

She gets mad because every time she comes to my house I tell her that she is not to throw a single thing out without my permission. This is no longer her space to do as she pleases and I will not let her continue to disrespect me that way now that I can have a voice. I don't allow her in the bedrooms or anywhere I have my 'stuff'. I don't trust her judgment of what has value to me.

[/quote

Sounds as if you have bigger control issues.


Nope, no control issues - other than around my mother and her touching my stuff!
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 17:38     Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How old is she?


11. I found a math test from December and wanted to throw it out. She was crying she wants to keep it because it's good. The problem is she wants to keep EVERYTHING. There is literally no carpet space without crap on it. She wants to keep a Hello Kitty wrapper because she likes the picture. She wants to keep the Build-a-Bear box (the bear does not live in it) because she likes the box. And on and on.


Whoa. She shouldn't throw out her math tests until the year is over. She may need them to study off of for the final exam. And what's wrong with wanting to keep a good test?? I still have essays I wrote in high school.

The toys are another story. But really, you should not be telling her to throw out tests in classes she is still taking.


AND teachers do lose things, on occasion. She definitely shouldn't be throwing out a math test from December.


WTF??? We throw out tests once ds brings it home, why keep it? They don't really use them to study from. My kids don't.


well, then, they're not studying for finals as effectively as they could.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 17:33     Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:I was a sentimental keep everything kid. For various reasons my things were vary important to me. My mom used to go through my things and throw them out and it caused a serious rift in our relationship. It showed me...

....that she didn't care about what was important to me
....that she didn't know me very well to think that it would be okay to throw my stuff out (just because she wouldn't care about those things, then she assumed I wouldn't care about them either).
...that nothing of mine was really mine - that she felt she could do with it as she wanted
...that she had no respect for me (finding things you care about in the trash and knowing they were taken from your space and put there intentionally feels disrespectful).

In the end all her actions did was make me feel even more like keeping stuff, I just got better at hiding it in places she couldn't find. She still found things and threw them out assuming they were of no value since she didn't value them. It was the main reason I really stopped trusting her and no longer confided anything in her as I got into my teen years. I still went on to be a controlled hoarder, and still am, and her throwing out my stuff made it worse.

She gets mad because every time she comes to my house I tell her that she is not to throw a single thing out without my permission. This is no longer her space to do as she pleases and I will not let her continue to disrespect me that way now that I can have a voice. I don't allow her in the bedrooms or anywhere I have my 'stuff'. I don't trust her judgment of what has value to me.

[/quote

Sounds as if you have bigger control issues.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 17:14     Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:How old is she?


11. I found a math test from December and wanted to throw it out. She was crying she wants to keep it because it's good. The problem is she wants to keep EVERYTHING. There is literally no carpet space without crap on it. She wants to keep a Hello Kitty wrapper because she likes the picture. She wants to keep the Build-a-Bear box (the bear does not live in it) because she likes the box. And on and on.


Whoa. She shouldn't throw out her math tests until the year is over. She may need them to study off of for the final exam. And what's wrong with wanting to keep a good test?? I still have essays I wrote in high school.

The toys are another story. But really, you should not be telling her to throw out tests in classes she is still taking.


AND teachers do lose things, on occasion. She definitely shouldn't be throwing out a math test from December.


WTF??? We throw out tests once ds brings it home, why keep it? They don't really use them to study from. My kids don't.
Anonymous
Post 04/21/2014 17:14     Subject: Back me up on being the mean, mean mommy
I was a sentimental keep everything kid. For various reasons my things were vary important to me. My mom used to go through my things and throw them out and it caused a serious rift in our relationship. It showed me...

....that she didn't care about what was important to me
....that she didn't know me very well to think that it would be okay to throw my stuff out (just because she wouldn't care about those things, then she assumed I wouldn't care about them either).
...that nothing of mine was really mine - that she felt she could do with it as she wanted
...that she had no respect for me (finding things you care about in the trash and knowing they were taken from your space and put there intentionally feels disrespectful).

In the end all her actions did was make me feel even more like keeping stuff, I just got better at hiding it in places she couldn't find. She still found things and threw them out assuming they were of no value since she didn't value them. It was the main reason I really stopped trusting her and no longer confided anything in her as I got into my teen years. I still went on to be a controlled hoarder, and still am, and her throwing out my stuff made it worse.

She gets mad because every time she comes to my house I tell her that she is not to throw a single thing out without my permission. This is no longer her space to do as she pleases and I will not let her continue to disrespect me that way now that I can have a voice. I don't allow her in the bedrooms or anywhere I have my 'stuff'. I don't trust her judgment of what has value to me.