Anonymous wrote:Read "Growth Mindset" by Carol Dweck. Intelligence is not fixed.

Yes, yes, THIS. THIS. Do this, OP. It will give you tools to parent better--it changed the way I parent.

Also, I don't agree with those bashing you. You are writing for help, and some people are taking the opportunity of you expressing your vulnerability to attack you. This a particularly annoying aspect of some people.

I believe you are as sharp and driven as you say you are. You and your DH have probably accomplished a lot through a combination of inborn talent and hard work--work ethic.

The work ethic, the "trying" mentality (rather than "succeeding") is what the Dweck book is about. Basically, molding the brain to get a dopamine surge from *trying*, not from *succeeding*. Paradoxically, those kids who are primed to try, and don't care as much about succeeding, end up succeeding more, because the kids primed on success get scared and don't want to try new things, and pretty much stick with what they know. A parent has the power to create one type of brain or the other in the child depending on what they focus on and how they praise the child. I'm making sweeping statements here, but that's sort of the nutshell and the book will go into it in detail.

Anonymous wrote: I can tell you as someone from a huge family where there were a lot of academic achievers that success in elementary school does not always translate to success as an adult. The smartest of my siblings is now an unemployed, recovering alcoholic.

+1, my sibling who excelled in school and social life is now in her 50s, overweight, borderline depressed and earns little more than minimum wage. My parents were very hard on her.
But this anecdote does not at all discredit the 'asian' model of parenting - the tiger mom conveys to the child how capable they are, and that's a good thing.

OP, I want to ask you a question about you and your husband. Do you think you only have value as people because you are smart and athletic and competitive? Are there other things that are lovable about you? Would you be worthless if you didn't have those things?

This is all related to how you value yourself. You are taking one or two traits and making them the defining elements of a person.

I also would like to ask if you have a spiritual or religious background at all, because what comes to mind for me is that God loves everyone, God doesn't make junk, and everyone is intrinsically lovable in their own way.

I am like you and am always trying to climb the ladder and think of myself as a winner. My child is in 2nd grade and we just found out that he will not be in advanced classes (AAP) next year, my kid is just "normal". This is a blow to my ego, since I was GT all the way as a kid. It is amazing to me how much I care about this, and it's something that is ridiculous.

My child is loving, funny, well-rounded, caring, interesting human being. I love my child, and my hang-ups should not interfere with that. I'm glad you at least recognize the error of your thought process OP, and therapy sounds like a good option if you don't think you can change on your own.

OP, I have one child who is an academic superstar, and another child who is not. But that second child is so loving and wonderful and happy-go-lucky and a real people person that I have no worries about the future. It's my academic superstar I worry about because with such gifts often come real emotional burdens.

Is your child happy? Is your child kind, patient, funny? Is he helpful and thoughtful? Does he have friends, and is he a good friend? These are qualities and characteristics to be more proud of than academic achievement.

What interests does he have? Why don't you pick up on something he enjoys and do it together, so that you can see what lights up his world and admire his passion for that one thing?

I can tell you as someone from a huge family where there were a lot of academic achievers that success in elementary school does not always translate to success as an adult. The smartest of my siblings is now an unemployed, recovering alcoholic.

Also, is there any chance you are a "lawnmower" type parent who has always removed all obstacles from your child's path? This alone can dampen a child's spirit. Let him struggle here and there to find out what he is capable of, which will only help instill confidence in himself.

And, fwiw, my DH was kind of a slacker until he got to his freshman year of college. Then he started to excel, graduating from a big name law school and is now an executive director. (But I love him because of what a good human being he is, not because of his smarts and his drive.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My traditional Asian upbringing is coming out, but there's nothing wrong with telegraphing to a child that they're not "good enough." It helps them up their game. It obviously doesn't make them more intelligent, but it makes them work that much harder until they get the top grades, awards etc. Asian countries are built on this model. Before you say that those parents don't love their kids -- the view is that it's a tough world out there, if we demand their best and toughen them up, nothing that they face after this will be hard for them.

Have you heard of Carl Rogers and unconditional positive regard? This is the foundation of therapy: unconditional positive regard. It's what a child needs most from a parent, and the lack of it is a real problem.

but i find it tiring to say "great job" constantly when it isn't...

This is not Unconditional Positive Regard and the fact that you trivialize it as such is very telling. Phony baloney positive affirmation? Of course not. Genuine expressions of caring.

Yes, Rogers would call it valuing or prizing the child for who he is, not for what he does and what he reflects back to the parent. A lot of us don't get that in childhood; I didn't myself. It took a lot of years to fix that in myself, and it's really an ongoing process.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the helpful replies and I agree I probably need to talk to a therapist to work through this. My child is not 7 - he is almost 12 - but still very young in the big scheme of life. And while I realize he could be very different some day, I do think you can tell a lot already. I have always been very sharp and driven and I've always been drawn to that same type with regard to my spouse and friends. So it is hard for me to connect with my child or admire him. But I really really do love him and I want to be a better parent to him. This has been the most shameful post I've ever typed.

I am the father to a 12 yo daughter. She is not great at sports, but she tries hard. She works hard -- much harder than I did at that age. I think I am smarter in terms of raw CPU, but she is much better with people than me. She is not a straight A (or all 4 student), but it does not impact how I feel about her.

Me, when I was that age, lets see, I got in fights at school, and was suspended multiple times in the sixth grade. In the seventh grade, I brought home a report card with 4 D's and an F. I did not try sports....and I was a loner. Today, I am a productive member of society, earning well into six figures doing ground breaking research in my scientific field.

12 is young. This country excels at second chances.

Very well said, PP. I, too, was an average student and only applied to one college, which I luckily got into. I am now a successful attorney making good money and supporting my family. I just want my kids to do their best, whatever that may be.

Is he happy? Is he a good person? Total win.

Another suggestion if you have the money - when the dynamic got ugly in our house about my son's school work (organisation and writing were creating too many B's for his ability, and only Bs after lots of screaming*) I took the rec of a friend and hired a tutor. 80% of what the tutor says, I could have said and have said, but now it doesn't come out of my mouth. The other 20% has been great, too. Not suggesting he needs a tutor, but just suggesting a way to change the dynamic if it isnt' working for you.


* no LDs here, so lets stay on topic

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My traditional Asian upbringing is coming out, but there's nothing wrong with telegraphing to a child that they're not "good enough." It helps them up their game. It obviously doesn't make them more intelligent, but it makes them work that much harder until they get the top grades, awards etc. Asian countries are built on this model. Before you say that those parents don't love their kids -- the view is that it's a tough world out there, if we demand their best and toughen them up, nothing that they face after this will be hard for them.

Have you heard of Carl Rogers and unconditional positive regard? This is the foundation of therapy: unconditional positive regard. It's what a child needs most from a parent, and the lack of it is a real problem.

but i find it tiring to say "great job" constantly when it isn't...

There's a vast ocean between telling your child through word and deed that they aren't good enough and bolstering self esteem through ridiculous praise. Both leave kids underachieving -- either in school or later in life.

Demands excellence must be tempered with reality. A person only works harder when deep down in your soul there's a small little voice that you are good enough, and actually can work to achieve more.

To the OP - my son won't be getting the elite education of his parents, either. Kills me sometimes, but that really is about him and not me.

I'm sorry you feel that way, OP. I have occasionally been there myself. I think it's human to want your kids to succeed in every possible, obvious way. But be ready to be surprised in a wonderful way when your child's gifts are revealed. They're there, trust me and sometimes the greatest of talents are slower to be revealed.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the helpful replies and I agree I probably need to talk to a therapist to work through this. My child is not 7 - he is almost 12 - but still very young in the big scheme of life. And while I realize he could be very different some day, I do think you can tell a lot already. I have always been very sharp and driven and I've always been drawn to that same type with regard to my spouse and friends. So it is hard for me to connect with my child or admire him. But I really really do love him and I want to be a better parent to him. This has been the most shameful post I've ever typed.

I am the father to a 12 yo daughter. She is not great at sports, but she tries hard. She works hard -- much harder than I did at that age. I think I am smarter in terms of raw CPU, but she is much better with people than me. She is not a straight A (or all 4 student), but it does not impact how I feel about her.

Me, when I was that age, lets see, I got in fights at school, and was suspended multiple times in the sixth grade. In the seventh grade, I brought home a report card with 4 D's and an F. I did not try sports....and I was a loner. Today, I am a productive member of society, earning well into six figures doing ground breaking research in my scientific field.

12 is young. This country excels at second chances.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you might be sabotaging your kid's ability to make full use of his natural talents. He maybe underachieving because of the parent child dynamic you have created. I've watched it happen several times. The parents demand so much from a kid he completely checks out and lacks motivation, because he either feels he will never live up to his parents' expectations, or he's over scheduled and over controlled to the point he just goes with the flow and loses all motivation.

In any event, I think therapy could help a lot. Both to realign your expectations and maybe set up a healthier parenting dynamic that will encouraging your son to shine in whatever way he is meant to.

+1000

He probably has the "I can't ever do it right so I won't even try" syndrome or "I hate my parents so much I would rather ben anything but them" syndrome.

OP,

You have to realize the way you view life is broken. You are completely wrong about your child. I have a very large family and the Ivy educated famliy members are just lawyers and doctors and other boring and stressful careers. The other family members have just as much or more fulfilling lives because they were able to follow their own path instead of the one their college counselor created for them. (and if $$$ matters to you the Ivy grads do not make mroe money)

You educational life is lacking. You missed all the important parts of life learning ... probably because you were too busy being amazing.

It is funny, around here Ivy league educations are a dime a dozen. I ask my kids name 1 person with an Ivy League education that you would like to be like. Their life, job, personality... none. I really find something seriously lacking in these people. Their lack of connection to humans vs things. Their inability to connect.

God or mother nature or physics or whatever you believe in knows you need some growing, this is your chance, don't miss this opportunity to become a whole person.

You do need serious therapy. Anybody that does not think you need therapy also has the same things lacking in their EQ. Your EQ seems to be extremely low.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My traditional Asian upbringing is coming out, but there's nothing wrong with telegraphing to a child that they're not "good enough." It helps them up their game. It obviously doesn't make them more intelligent, but it makes them work that much harder until they get the top grades, awards etc. Asian countries are built on this model. Before you say that those parents don't love their kids -- the view is that it's a tough world out there, if we demand their best and toughen them up, nothing that they face after this will be hard for them.

Have you heard of Carl Rogers and unconditional positive regard? This is the foundation of therapy: unconditional positive regard. It's what a child needs most from a parent, and the lack of it is a real problem.

but i find it tiring to say "great job" constantly when it isn't...

This is not Unconditional Positive Regard and the fact that you trivialize it as such is very telling. Phony baloney positive affirmation? Of course not. Genuine expressions of caring.

Anonymous wrote:OP you might be sabotaging your kid's ability to make full use of his natural talents. He maybe underachieving because of the parent child dynamic you have created. I've watched it happen several times. The parents demand so much from a kid he completely checks out and lacks motivation, because he either feels he will never live up to his parents' expectations, or he's over scheduled and over controlled to the point he just goes with the flow and loses all motivation.

In any event, I think therapy could help a lot. Both to realign your expectations and maybe set up a healthier parenting dynamic that will encouraging your son to shine in whatever way he is meant to.

+1000