Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 22:39     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Churchill's FARMS percent is 5.3%. Churchill's percent of black students is 8.9%. Churchill's enrollment is 2,093. So 111 FARMS students, and 186 black students.

Blair's FARMS percent is 36.8%. Blair's percent of black students is 27.2%. Blair's enrollment is 2,790. So 1,027 FARMS students, and 759 black students.

I wonder if the difference in the size of the denominator makes a difference. (Actually I don't wonder that. I'm pretty sure it does.)

But, ok, let's say you're correct. Churchill does a better job of educating FARMS students and black students than Blair. Therefore, MCPS should enable more FARMS students and black students to attend Churchill. You don't have a problem with that, right?


I cannot believe anyone would have the chutzpah to even say these things. very inappropriate.

On a more politically correct note, these two schools cannot even be compared. You are comparing a Ferrari to a Ford. I mean seriously. Almost half of Blair is Farms, ok. So basically, a majority of the non-magnet students are socioeconomically disadvantaged. And yes, these students get into fights. At least, they are the kids who would usually start the fights in my SS school (but not always finish them). And believe me, it's not racial. White people scrap too in SS. I did, my cousins did (SS public schools).


Almost half of Blair is FARMS? See http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04757.pdf

Not quite.

Yes, getting into fights may not be the monopoly of any single race.

The question is whether Blair does a good job teaching its students compare to other MCPS schools, especially "W" schools.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 22:32     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:Churchill's FARMS percent is 5.3%. Churchill's percent of black students is 8.9%. Churchill's enrollment is 2,093. So 111 FARMS students, and 186 black students.

Blair's FARMS percent is 36.8%. Blair's percent of black students is 27.2%. Blair's enrollment is 2,790. So 1,027 FARMS students, and 759 black students.

I wonder if the difference in the size of the denominator makes a difference. (Actually I don't wonder that. I'm pretty sure it does.)

But, ok, let's say you're correct. Churchill does a better job of educating FARMS students and black students than Blair. Therefore, MCPS should enable more FARMS students and black students to attend Churchill. You don't have a problem with that, right?


I cannot believe anyone would have the chutzpah to even say these things. very inappropriate.

On a more politically correct note, these two schools cannot even be compared. You are comparing a Ferrari to a Ford. I mean seriously. Almost half of Blair is Farms, ok. So basically, a majority of the non-magnet students are socioeconomically disadvantaged. And yes, these students get into fights. At least, they are the kids who would usually start the fights in my SS school (but not always finish them). And believe me, it's not racial. White people scrap too in SS. I did, my cousins did (SS public schools).
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 22:27     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Churchill's FARMS percent is 5.3%. Churchill's percent of black students is 8.9%. Churchill's enrollment is 2,093. So 111 FARMS students, and 186 black students.

Blair's FARMS percent is 36.8%. Blair's percent of black students is 27.2%. Blair's enrollment is 2,790. So 1,027 FARMS students, and 759 black students.

I wonder if the difference in the size of the denominator makes a difference. (Actually I don't wonder that. I'm pretty sure it does.)

But, ok, let's say you're correct. Churchill does a better job of educating FARMS students and black students than Blair. Therefore, MCPS should enable more FARMS students and black students to attend Churchill. You don't have a problem with that, right?




One problem. At Churchill you have a different type of black student. Some are from Scotland but most are sons and daughters of doctors, lawyers, and other professionals. At Blair the blacks are the sons and daughters of the blue collar crowd that Churchill parents hire to shovel their driveway.


Well, I find your characterization offensive. If you want to argue Blair has "a different type of black student," then compare Blair numbers with those for other high schools in the DCC.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 22:23     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
I would strongly suggest that parents who want to compare schools not rely on Schools at a Glance alone. Look at all the data available via the MCPS website and make up your own decision.

An large number of metrics don't seem to indicate that Blair does well by its students.

I Googled Blair and looked at tweets from administrators and various programs as well. I noticed that Blair went to town about some kind of Intel prize winners. Now, kudos to those kids, but it does not prove anything about education at Blair in general.

Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 22:21     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:Churchill's FARMS percent is 5.3%. Churchill's percent of black students is 8.9%. Churchill's enrollment is 2,093. So 111 FARMS students, and 186 black students.

Blair's FARMS percent is 36.8%. Blair's percent of black students is 27.2%. Blair's enrollment is 2,790. So 1,027 FARMS students, and 759 black students.

I wonder if the difference in the size of the denominator makes a difference. (Actually I don't wonder that. I'm pretty sure it does.)

But, ok, let's say you're correct. Churchill does a better job of educating FARMS students and black students than Blair. Therefore, MCPS should enable more FARMS students and black students to attend Churchill. You don't have a problem with that, right?




One problem. At Churchill you have a different type of black student. Some are from Scotland but most are sons and daughters of doctors, lawyers, and other professionals. At Blair the blacks are the sons and daughters of the blue collar crowd that Churchill parents hire to shovel their driveway.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 22:18     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:Does Blair include non-magnet students?



Of course. It's not one big magnet school. The trouble, fighting, and other disruption comes from the people from the hood.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 22:15     Subject: Re:Fighting and suspensions at Blair
If we agree that Churchill might do a better job than Blair at educating black and FARMS students, then Whitman does a worse job.

I am the PP who grabbed the Whitman numbers and I didn't need to distort the data. I just grabbed a W school and two demographics. I wasn't going to spend the time looking at all of the Ws, nor every line of scores. I was curious after the generalized posts that asked "Just a simple question--------------is a Blair education good as that at any "W" school by any measure?" and "...what you are saying is that the teaching at Blair is the same at any W counterpart. Now that is stupidity at its zenith!! Look at the academic indicators and tell me how you justify your belief".

So I looked up a W and Blair and saw that they were comparable using at least some basic testing measures. After that, look up the safety at a glance, visit the school, etc. and make your own personalized decisions.


Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 22:04     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
PS: I have no problem if you send the Blair principal to Churchill and send the Churchill principal to Blair.

Let's see you start a petition.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 22:02     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:Churchill's FARMS percent is 5.3%. Churchill's percent of black students is 8.9%. Churchill's enrollment is 2,093. So 111 FARMS students, and 186 black students.

Blair's FARMS percent is 36.8%. Blair's percent of black students is 27.2%. Blair's enrollment is 2,790. So 1,027 FARMS students, and 759 black students.

I wonder if the difference in the size of the denominator makes a difference. (Actually I don't wonder that. I'm pretty sure it does.)

But, ok, let's say you're correct. Churchill does a better job of educating FARMS students and black students than Blair. Therefore, MCPS should enable more FARMS students and black students to attend Churchill. You don't have a problem with that, right?[/quote]

Don't have a problem with that at all. Please go ahead and ask the MCCPTA to advocate for your suggestion. You don't have a problem with that, right?
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 22:00     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
The point is that Churchill's "small number" of FARMS students and black student did better than their identical demographic at Blair. Keep in mind, Blair includes the magnet students who fall into these demographics in their statistics.

Again, you might also want to ask Blair for academic ineligibility and suspension numbers and compare them with their appropriate demographic at other schools.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 21:57     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Churchill has about 100 FARMS students. Blair has about 900.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 21:55     Subject: Re:Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Was more curious about this thread on Blair as part of the DCC but don't have kids going there. With all of the questions about teaching comparison, I thought I would pull up some scores (from Schools at a Glance). I pulled out one racial demographic and one socio-economic demographic:

Whitman -
The white children all scored >95% on the MSA, 87% algebra proficiency, 89% geometry proficiency and 93% took AP level classes
There were not enough FARMS children to publish scores for the MSA, 35% algebra proficiency, 38% geometry proficiency and 62% took AP

Blair
The white children all scored >95% on the MSA exams, 91% algebra proficiency, 90% geometry proficiency and >95% took AP level classes
The FARMS children scored around 90% on the MSA exams, 43% algebra proficiency, 50.2% geometry proficiency and 69% took AP

So with some background info being the same, it appears that the outcomes are similar and might be a little better at Blair. I don't know how to factor in the magnet but I also can't factor in the skewed socio-economic differences either.

I will say that my child attends a school with a high FARMs rate and the teachers are fantastic. They teach to all levels and are engaged so I don't think that a high FARMs school means bad teachers. Sometimes the resources are stretched because there are kids who need additional help that they are not getting at home, but the school does a great job of meeting everyone's needs.

Getting back to the OP, I can agree that these things happen and are not great. I think whether the school takes them seriously and addressed the issue keeps the kids safe - that is the important thing. I went to a well off school that had drugs, fights, etc. However, those issues didn't bleed into the main student body and stayed on the periphery unless you got involved.


Winston Churchill HS: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04602.pdf
Montgomery Blair HS: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04757.pdf
Blair had 43.3% of FARMS and students 54.6% of black complete Algebra with a "C" or Higher by Grade 9
Churchill had 65.6% of FARMS and 62.7% of black students complete Algebra with a "C" or Higher by Grade 9
So, if we are going to use the type of comparison that you advocate, Blair does not look good. Blair does not do well by FARMS students or black students in the Algebra matrix. Again, this is the type of comparison you have chosen.
Mind you, Blair includes magnet statistics in many of the numbers and magnet students tend to be the best form most of the county.
It seems, at best your analysis is incomplete and misleading.
You might also want to ask Blair for academic ineligibility and suspension numbers and compare them with their appropriate demographic at other schools.


But only 5% of Churchill students were FARMS eligible, and less than 9% were black. So, a small number of students can have a big impact on those percentages you listed.
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 21:53     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Churchill's FARMS percent is 5.3%. Churchill's percent of black students is 8.9%. Churchill's enrollment is 2,093. So 111 FARMS students, and 186 black students.

Blair's FARMS percent is 36.8%. Blair's percent of black students is 27.2%. Blair's enrollment is 2,790. So 1,027 FARMS students, and 759 black students.

I wonder if the difference in the size of the denominator makes a difference. (Actually I don't wonder that. I'm pretty sure it does.)

But, ok, let's say you're correct. Churchill does a better job of educating FARMS students and black students than Blair. Therefore, MCPS should enable more FARMS students and black students to attend Churchill. You don't have a problem with that, right?
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 21:47     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
Does Blair include non-magnet students?
Anonymous
Post 03/31/2014 21:46     Subject: Fighting and suspensions at Blair
It seems one sees what one wants to see in the data. However, if you look at all the data points, keeping in mind Blair includes CAP and magnet student data, and look at other DCC schools you might learn something as well.