Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Because I do not think you can ever hope to recover your marriage if the spouses are subject to a different set of rules. I am not 12YO and my DW is not my mother. I am not going to agree to unilateral monitoring. If she wants to see my emails and texts - fine. But then here are acceible to me. If I need to call when I leave work so she can calculate ETA - great. I expect the same from her.

So what you're saying is that it's more important to you to feel as (or more) powerful than your DW at all times than to help her try and re-establish trust in you, trust that you willingly violated?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Because I do not think you can ever hope to recover your marriage if the spouses are subject to a different set of rules. I am not 12YO and my DW is not my mother. I am not going to agree to unilateral monitoring. If she wants to see my emails and texts - fine. But then here are acceible to me. If I need to call when I leave work so she can calculate ETA - great. I expect the same from her.

You are just creating a diversion. The wife in this scenario didn't cheat on anybody, so she doesn't need to engage in any trust-building exercises. You wouldn't be getting her passwords because you actually believed she might be cheating on you; you'd just be doing that out of spite.

If you truly believed in the same set of rules, you'd encourage and allow your wife to have an affair of the same duration and intensity and THEN swap passwords and try to build trust.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't care if my girl caught me buttnaked in bed with another woman, I'm not giving her my passwords.
If you don't trust me then tough.

Well, if she catches you butt-naked in bed with the OW, then she knows you are a lying, cheating asshole, doesn't she. And since you would refuse to try to rebuild trust with her, obviously the relationship would be over.

But you would still be a total asshole.

NP here. He said it in an "assholish" way but I see where he is coming from.

I am in a sexless marriage so IF I were to cheat on my wife - it would be for the sex. If I happened to be caught and one of the conditions was "rebuilding trust" by giving up passwords and agreeing to spot checks, I would likely opt for divorce. I may be a stone cold coward and asshole, but I am not going to try to rebuild trust with anyone who did not think enough of me to consider my needs too. That would be a miserable life for both of us.

If you want to be an unrepentant cheater and abandon your family, I agree - don't bother trying to rebuild trust.

PP here. But you folks are contradicting yourselves. People here are saying that it is never the same and totally rebuilding trust is impossible. If that is the case, why would my DW want to be in a situation where she had to serve as my warden and keep track of my emails and comings and going? And why would I, although I messed up, subject myself to that? Truth be told, OP has to ask herself if THIS is the way she wants to live. And her DH needs to ask himself the same question.

I don't agree that rebuilding trust is impossible, although I do agree that if, after a good faith effort, the spouse thinks there is no way to re-establish the trust, the marriage needs to end. But I think that, at least temporarily, access to emails/phone records can help re-establish that trust, both in showing that the cheating spouse is willing to place the relationship above their own individual desires, and to show more practically that the cheating has stopped.

PP, you seem to be saying that, if you cheat and violate someone's trust, and you get caught, if your significant other isn't willing to immediately trust you 100%, there's no point in continuing the relationship. Which is your right, of course, but I don't think it's in any way reasonable to expect that from someone.

Quite the contrary. I'm not saying that if I were to be cheat on her that my girl should just immediately dismiss it as an aberration and have no lingering doubts or concerns whatsoever and that she should just get right back to trusting me 100% as if nothing ever happened.
What I'm saying is that while I may not want to give up on the relationship, I would ultimately choose to if it meant giving up the passwords to my phone and my email etc. I personally feel such extremes are in no way conducive to reestablishing trust between us and that resorting to those measures would only cause friction not ease tension.
Trust is earned, yes, and when abused it definitely takes a lot of time and work to build it back up. I would definitely take the time and put in the work to rebuild that trust but I would not subject myself to surveillance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Because I do not think you can ever hope to recover your marriage if the spouses are subject to a different set of rules. I am not 12YO and my DW is not my mother. I am not going to agree to unilateral monitoring. If she wants to see my emails and texts - fine. But then here are acceible to me. If I need to call when I leave work so she can calculate ETA - great. I expect the same from her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Then you leave. You don't cheat. Cheating is a greater violation than unilaterally deciding that the marriage will be celibate, because the latter is done with both partners' knowledge, although both partners might not agree.

That's your opinion. I think one is as great a violation as the other. They are both violations of the wedding vows.

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Wait, this doesn't make any sense. Why would DW give you access to her email? In your hypothetical, she didn't violate your trust. Why would she need to show you that she can be trusted? As you described it, her issue was unilaterally imposed celibacy. Her concession should be related to that -- going to a sex therapist, making an effort, etc.

Anonymous wrote:Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Then you leave. You don't cheat. Cheating is a greater violation than unilaterally deciding that the marriage will be celibate, because the latter is done with both partners' knowledge, although both partners might not agree.

Sexless PP here. Here’s my take.

I am not the type of guy who chases pvssy, and my DW knows that. If I stray, I am 100% at fault for banging someone else. Absolutely. Am I solely at fault because my marriage deteriorated to the point that I felt that I needed to stray to get my needs met (especially when I was vocal about those needs)? We can argue back and forth all day on that. So….in order to get back in good standing (and rebuild trust) in a marriage that I was unfulfilled in, I need to give DW even more power than she had when she decided that we would be darn near celibate? I will readily admit that I messed up and I will give my reasons why. If she wants to work it out, we can seek counseling and determine the best way to do it. But I am not going to be a prisoner in my own house and my own marriage. Now, if my DW wanted us BOTH to give up access to passwords as part of a new marital open book policy, then that might work. I am not going to kowtow to her demands to rebuild something that most of you are saying cannot be totally rebuilt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't care if my girl caught me buttnaked in bed with another woman, I'm not giving her my passwords.
If you don't trust me then tough.

Well, if she catches you butt-naked in bed with the OW, then she knows you are a lying, cheating asshole, doesn't she. And since you would refuse to try to rebuild trust with her, obviously the relationship would be over.

But you would still be a total asshole.

NP here. He said it in an "assholish" way but I see where he is coming from.

I am in a sexless marriage so IF I were to cheat on my wife - it would be for the sex. If I happened to be caught and one of the conditions was "rebuilding trust" by giving up passwords and agreeing to spot checks, I would likely opt for divorce. I may be a stone cold coward and asshole, but I am not going to try to rebuild trust with anyone who did not think enough of me to consider my needs too. That would be a miserable life for both of us.

If you want to be an unrepentant cheater and abandon your family, I agree - don't bother trying to rebuild trust.

PP here. But you folks are contradicting yourselves. People here are saying that it is never the same and totally rebuilding trust is impossible. If that is the case, why would my DW want to be in a situation where she had to serve as my warden and keep track of my emails and comings and going? And why would I, although I messed up, subject myself to that? Truth be told, OP has to ask herself if THIS is the way she wants to live. And her DH needs to ask himself the same question.

I don't agree that rebuilding trust is impossible, although I do agree that if, after a good faith effort, the spouse thinks there is no way to re-establish the trust, the marriage needs to end. But I think that, at least temporarily, access to emails/phone records can help re-establish that trust, both in showing that the cheating spouse is willing to place the relationship above their own individual desires, and to show more practically that the cheating has stopped.

PP, you seem to be saying that, if you cheat and violate someone's trust, and you get caught, if your significant other isn't willing to immediately trust you 100%, there's no point in continuing the relationship. Which is your right, of course, but I don't think it's in any way reasonable to expect that from someone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:While I agree with the PPs that this sort of access is an invasion of privacy, I also understand why a cheated-on spouse would want the reassurance.

We do not share our passwords routinely. We each have a list of each other's important passwords to various things (in case of emergency), but the understanding is that we don't use those passwords for spot checks. If I found out that my husband was reading my email, I would be upset because I have given him no reason to need to do that.

In the OP's case, her husband not only gave her a reason to read his email (using it to cheat) but also permission to check that he was no longer using his email that way. He lost the right to complain when he agreed to allow her this access as a way of rebuilding her trust.

If she chooses not to avail herself of this access, that means that the plan is WORKING. She is trusting him more and feeling the need to check up on him less. That's kind of the whole point.

That's the point UNTIL an unsolicited email from the former lover unravels all the trust that she had gained - and jumping on DCUM makes it worse.

Here's the thing. If DH were up to no good, he would have to be a complete idiot to communicate through the channels that he gave his DW full access to. So to me, it is false access just to placate the OP. I am not saying that the DH is doing anything wrong. But if he were, he surely would be communicating via other means.

My question is that if the process of "rebuilding trust" makes them both on edge and miserable, what's the point? Life is too short to be miserable.

The point is that the OP believes that he's NOT up to no good, that this WAS an unsolicited email. He cannot control what the OW sends him. He can tell her not to contact him. He can block her email address. She can get another one. I think it is possible that her H marked the email as read by accident, or that he read it and forgot to mention it and now feels dumb and that's why he's being defensive.

Either way, the OP's decision was that if she's going to trust him, she's going to trust him. She doesn't want to use the passwords she's been given for his new accounts. I think that shows commitment to rebuilding trust on her part, and I commend her for her effort. If it turns out that her H is still involved with the OW, that doesn't make the OP naive or controlling. It just means that she was the only one who was making a good faith effort to reconcile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't care if my girl caught me buttnaked in bed with another woman, I'm not giving her my passwords.
If you don't trust me then tough.

Well, if she catches you butt-naked in bed with the OW, then she knows you are a lying, cheating asshole, doesn't she. And since you would refuse to try to rebuild trust with her, obviously the relationship would be over.

But you would still be a total asshole.

I'd be an asshole with my privacy intact though.
There are plenty of women out here but there's only one personal business that's all mine and I wouldn't give that up for anyone.

Really? Having sex and possibly introducing STDs or illegitimate children into your marriage are "personal business"?

And while you might have the right to privacy, you don't have the right to secrecy - especially after you have betrayed your spouse's trust in you. It's quite common to lose a "right" when you violate a rule - much the way felons lose the right to vote.

Uhhh no! I do not lose any rights! LOL! If I CHOOSE to give her full access to my stuff to rebuild trust, then I can do that. However, I have the right to say "nope, I am not going to do that." Of course, my spouse has the right to leave.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't care if my girl caught me buttnaked in bed with another woman, I'm not giving her my passwords.
If you don't trust me then tough.

Well, if she catches you butt-naked in bed with the OW, then she knows you are a lying, cheating asshole, doesn't she. And since you would refuse to try to rebuild trust with her, obviously the relationship would be over.

But you would still be a total asshole.

I'd be an asshole with my privacy intact though.
There are plenty of women out here but there's only one personal business that's all mine and I wouldn't give that up for anyone.

Really? Having sex and possibly introducing STDs or illegitimate children into your marriage are "personal business"?

And while you might have the right to privacy, you don't have the right to secrecy - especially after you have betrayed your spouse's trust in you. It's quite common to lose a "right" when you violate a rule - much the way felons lose the right to vote.

Darn...too bad this isn't Uganda where I just might have to subscribe to your suppositions, being that you're the Minister for Ethics and Integrity and all, but as fate would have it we're here in the good ol' USA where I do indeed have rights in relationships even if I mess up. You see there's this thing in my house called a door which my girl used to initially enter my life and our relationship, now if I make a mistake which she finds so reprehensible that she feels the need to remove my rights to privacy in order to be reassured that I won't make that mistake again - HAHA - well then she is more than welcome to use that same door to ultimately exit my life and end our relationship. That is her right.

Anonymous wrote:While I agree with the PPs that this sort of access is an invasion of privacy, I also understand why a cheated-on spouse would want the reassurance.

We do not share our passwords routinely. We each have a list of each other's important passwords to various things (in case of emergency), but the understanding is that we don't use those passwords for spot checks. If I found out that my husband was reading my email, I would be upset because I have given him no reason to need to do that.

In the OP's case, her husband not only gave her a reason to read his email (using it to cheat) but also permission to check that he was no longer using his email that way. He lost the right to complain when he agreed to allow her this access as a way of rebuilding her trust.

If she chooses not to avail herself of this access, that means that the plan is WORKING. She is trusting him more and feeling the need to check up on him less. That's kind of the whole point.

That's the point UNTIL an unsolicited email from the former lover unravels all the trust that she had gained - and jumping on DCUM makes it worse.

Here's the thing. If DH were up to no good, he would have to be a complete idiot to communicate through the channels that he gave his DW full access to. So to me, it is false access just to placate the OP. I am not saying that the DH is doing anything wrong. But if he were, he surely would be communicating via other means.

My question is that if the process of "rebuilding trust" makes them both on edge and miserable, what's the point? Life is too short to be miserable.

While I agree with the PPs that this sort of access is an invasion of privacy, I also understand why a cheated-on spouse would want the reassurance.

We do not share our passwords routinely. We each have a list of each other's important passwords to various things (in case of emergency), but the understanding is that we don't use those passwords for spot checks. If I found out that my husband was reading my email, I would be upset because I have given him no reason to need to do that.

In the OP's case, her husband not only gave her a reason to read his email (using it to cheat) but also permission to check that he was no longer using his email that way. He lost the right to complain when he agreed to allow her this access as a way of rebuilding her trust.

If she chooses not to avail herself of this access, that means that the plan is WORKING. She is trusting him more and feeling the need to check up on him less. That's kind of the whole point.

Anonymous wrote:PP, my thinking is that if your marriage is so bad that neither of you is respecting the other enough to care for their needs or be honest and faithful, you should probably just get divorced and not worry about something as trivial as email privacy.

I agree 100%, which was my point.