FCPS Dashboard shows Cooper as 141 students under cap -- http://www.fcps.edu/fts/dashboard/enrollment/msenroll13-14.html

Pretty sure last year proposal would have moved 150 from Longfellow alone. Can't recall numbers from Kilmer, but assume it's in the hundreds as well, so I believe it was shown that Cooper would be well over capacity immediately or within a year at most. That was the best case scenario -- assuming the enrollment projections were not way low -- which they tend to be in this area. Spring Hill is growing, Churchill is growing, etc.

Anonymous wrote:
You're both throwing a lot of different arguments out there that may reflect your general feelings about AAP centers, but aren't really persuasive re the situation being discussed in this thread -- Longfellow -- and in particular the possibility of moving AAP students from Longfellow to Cooper. First, no one said Cooper would lack a critical mass. That might be a real concern elsewhere but not here. Second, Cooper would become vastly overcrowded by moving all these kids over from Longfellow and Kilmer. If anything, YOU are advocating that an outdated, dingy, vastly overcrowded Cooper is a small price to pay for your GE kid to stay in a beautifully renovated & under capacity Longfellow. Third, as far as FCPS catering to AAP and being "the norm" -- I think that's the very argument being used by some Cooper GE parents to oppose the influx of AAP students into Cooper, so I'm not sure you're helping your case there.

The 11:03 post and some earlier posts suggest a concern that a stand-alone AAP program at Cooper might not have "critical mass." I agree that's a red herring given the number of AAP kids in that area. Second, FCPS identifies Cooper as being 327 students below capacity, with its enrollment projected to decline in the future. How many AAP students does Cooper send to Longfellow and Kilmer and how would their attending Cooper leave it "vastly overcrowded" relative to other schools? Third, while I don't agree that FCPS necessarily "caters" to AAP students, requiring GenEd students at schools like Kilmer and Longfellow to attend overcrowded schools so that AAP students from other areas can attend large AAP centers, could be viewed that way, at least where there are under-enrolled schools nearby that could also educate AAP students.

The issue will be most acute at Kilmer, not Longfellow, if FCPS's current projections hold water. Longfellow will be the tail on this dog when things really heat up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cluster 2 families were told last year they had to send their kids to a new AAP program at Lemon Road ES with no track record, so Cluster 1 families can send their kids to a new AAP program at Cooper MS. You don't have a right to send your kids to Kilmer or Longfellow just because you pay property taxes.

The stakes are higher in middle school for the AAP kids-sorry, that is just the reality. It makes more sense to have more local centers and level IV centers at an elementary school level.

Did I seriously just read this? You feel that the stakes are higher for AAP kids? That, in a nutshell, is what is so very wrong with the AAP program as it is today. The parents actually believe their kids are more special and more important than the general ed. kids, and so everything must revolve around them. What this area needs are far fewer centers and FAR fewer AAP kids. General Ed kids deserve the same amount of focus and energy that AAP has been getting from FCPS.

Please...there is no point in arguing AAP vs. GE-and in fact, Cluster 1 schools have adopted the AAP curriculum standards in GE this year, at least at our center school. I was simply making the point that having the critical mass of AAP students matters more in middle school than in elementary and it makes more sense not to have more local level IV centers in middle school. You need to get the chip off of your shoulder.

When you say that "the stakes are higher in middle school for the AAP kids-sorry, that is just the reality," you leave yourself wide open to criticism. I absolutely disagree with this statement. Not only is it pretentious and condescending, it's also incorrect. The Gen. Ed. kids deserve to attend a middle school where there is not the constant AAP division that there currently is in elementary school, especially in elem. centers. The prospect of attending a middle school where AAP is finally non-existent is extremely refreshing to these kids who have had it shoved in their faces since 3rd grade. The world does not revolve around AAP.

I think the other poster is saying that, for AAP kids, the stakes are higher in middle school than in elementary school, NOT that the stakes in middle school are higher for AAP kids than for GenEd kids.

I do get the impression, however, that the other poster thinks that having a "critical mass" of AAP students at middle schools should be the organizing principle in FCPS, and that everything else should flow from that. He/she apparently thinks it's fine if some schools are vastly overcrowded, or if kids are bussed long distances to attend a school with other GenEd kids; it's a small price to pay so long as his/her AAP kid can attend a school with a large number of other AAP kids.

I agree. And frankly, I've had it with FCPS catering to the AAP population and ignoring the needs of the Gen Ed population. AAP should be the exception to the rule, but around here, it's somehow become the "norm". What a skewed system.

You're both throwing a lot of different arguments out there that may reflect your general feelings about AAP centers, but aren't really persuasive re the situation being discussed in this thread -- Longfellow -- and in particular the possibility of moving AAP students from Longfellow to Cooper. First, no one said Cooper would lack a critical mass. That might be a real concern elsewhere but not here. Second, Cooper would become vastly overcrowded by moving all these kids over from Longfellow and Kilmer. If anything, YOU are advocating that an outdated, dingy, vastly overcrowded Cooper is a small price to pay for your GE kid to stay in a beautifully renovated & under capacity Longfellow. Third, as far as FCPS catering to AAP and being "the norm" -- I think that's the very argument being used by some Cooper GE parents to oppose the influx of AAP students into Cooper, so I'm not sure you're helping your case there.

As an AAP parent, I could not feel less "catered to" by FCPS in the past few years. I think it's clear the program is beginning to be dismantled or diluted, which is unfortunate, because it was viewed nationwide as an example of a stellar GT-type program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cluster 2 families were told last year they had to send their kids to a new AAP program at Lemon Road ES with no track record, so Cluster 1 families can send their kids to a new AAP program at Cooper MS. You don't have a right to send your kids to Kilmer or Longfellow just because you pay property taxes.

The stakes are higher in middle school for the AAP kids-sorry, that is just the reality. It makes more sense to have more local centers and level IV centers at an elementary school level.

Did I seriously just read this? You feel that the stakes are higher for AAP kids? That, in a nutshell, is what is so very wrong with the AAP program as it is today. The parents actually believe their kids are more special and more important than the general ed. kids, and so everything must revolve around them. What this area needs are far fewer centers and FAR fewer AAP kids. General Ed kids deserve the same amount of focus and energy that AAP has been getting from FCPS.

Please...there is no point in arguing AAP vs. GE-and in fact, Cluster 1 schools have adopted the AAP curriculum standards in GE this year, at least at our center school. I was simply making the point that having the critical mass of AAP students matters more in middle school than in elementary and it makes more sense not to have more local level IV centers in middle school. You need to get the chip off of your shoulder.

When you say that "the stakes are higher in middle school for the AAP kids-sorry, that is just the reality," you leave yourself wide open to criticism. I absolutely disagree with this statement. Not only is it pretentious and condescending, it's also incorrect. The Gen. Ed. kids deserve to attend a middle school where there is not the constant AAP division that there currently is in elementary school, especially in elem. centers. The prospect of attending a middle school where AAP is finally non-existent is extremely refreshing to these kids who have had it shoved in their faces since 3rd grade. The world does not revolve around AAP.

I think the other poster is saying that, for AAP kids, the stakes are higher in middle school than in elementary school, NOT that the stakes in middle school are higher for AAP kids than for GenEd kids.

I do get the impression, however, that the other poster thinks that having a "critical mass" of AAP students at middle schools should be the organizing principle in FCPS, and that everything else should flow from that. He/she apparently thinks it's fine if some schools are vastly overcrowded, or if kids are bussed long distances to attend a school with other GenEd kids; it's a small price to pay so long as his/her AAP kid can attend a school with a large number of other AAP kids.

I agree. And frankly, I've had it with FCPS catering to the AAP population and ignoring the needs of the Gen Ed population. AAP should be the exception to the rule, but around here, it's somehow become the "norm". What a skewed system.

I'm not the poster who said the stakes were higher, but I took that comment to be comparing the stakes for middle schoolers vs elementary schoolers -- pp was comparing that to the experience of ES students being made to switch centers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cluster 2 families were told last year they had to send their kids to a new AAP program at Lemon Road ES with no track record, so Cluster 1 families can send their kids to a new AAP program at Cooper MS. You don't have a right to send your kids to Kilmer or Longfellow just because you pay property taxes.

The stakes are higher in middle school for the AAP kids-sorry, that is just the reality. It makes more sense to have more local centers and level IV centers at an elementary school level.

Did I seriously just read this? You feel that the stakes are higher for AAP kids? That, in a nutshell, is what is so very wrong with the AAP program as it is today. The parents actually believe their kids are more special and more important than the general ed. kids, and so everything must revolve around them. What this area needs are far fewer centers and FAR fewer AAP kids. General Ed kids deserve the same amount of focus and energy that AAP has been getting from FCPS.

Please...there is no point in arguing AAP vs. GE-and in fact, Cluster 1 schools have adopted the AAP curriculum standards in GE this year, at least at our center school. I was simply making the point that having the critical mass of AAP students matters more in middle school than in elementary and it makes more sense not to have more local level IV centers in middle school. You need to get the chip off of your shoulder.

When you say that "the stakes are higher in middle school for the AAP kids-sorry, that is just the reality," you leave yourself wide open to criticism. I absolutely disagree with this statement. Not only is it pretentious and condescending, it's also incorrect. The Gen. Ed. kids deserve to attend a middle school where there is not the constant AAP division that there currently is in elementary school, especially in elem. centers. The prospect of attending a middle school where AAP is finally non-existent is extremely refreshing to these kids who have had it shoved in their faces since 3rd grade. The world does not revolve around AAP.

I think the other poster is saying that, for AAP kids, the stakes are higher in middle school than in elementary school, NOT that the stakes in middle school are higher for AAP kids than for GenEd kids.

I do get the impression, however, that the other poster thinks that having a "critical mass" of AAP students at middle schools should be the organizing principle in FCPS, and that everything else should flow from that. He/she apparently thinks it's fine if some schools are vastly overcrowded, or if kids are bussed long distances to attend a school with other GenEd kids; it's a small price to pay so long as his/her AAP kid can attend a school with a large number of other AAP kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cluster 2 families were told last year they had to send their kids to a new AAP program at Lemon Road ES with no track record, so Cluster 1 families can send their kids to a new AAP program at Cooper MS. You don't have a right to send your kids to Kilmer or Longfellow just because you pay property taxes.

The stakes are higher in middle school for the AAP kids-sorry, that is just the reality. It makes more sense to have more local centers and level IV centers at an elementary school level.

Did I seriously just read this? You feel that the stakes are higher for AAP kids? That, in a nutshell, is what is so very wrong with the AAP program as it is today. The parents actually believe their kids are more special and more important than the general ed. kids, and so everything must revolve around them. What this area needs are far fewer centers and FAR fewer AAP kids. General Ed kids deserve the same amount of focus and energy that AAP has been getting from FCPS.

Please...there is no point in arguing AAP vs. GE-and in fact, Cluster 1 schools have adopted the AAP curriculum standards in GE this year, at least at our center school. I was simply making the point that having the critical mass of AAP students matters more in middle school than in elementary and it makes more sense not to have more local level IV centers in middle school. You need to get the chip off of your shoulder.

When you say that "the stakes are higher in middle school for the AAP kids-sorry, that is just the reality," you leave yourself wide open to criticism. I absolutely disagree with this statement. Not only is it pretentious and condescending, it's also incorrect. The Gen. Ed. kids deserve to attend a middle school where there is not the constant AAP division that there currently is in elementary school, especially in elem. centers. The prospect of attending a middle school where AAP is finally non-existent is extremely refreshing to these kids who have had it shoved in their faces since 3rd grade. The world does not revolve around AAP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Please...there is no point in arguing AAP vs. GE-and in fact, Cluster 1 schools have adopted the AAP curriculum standards in GE this year, at least at our center school. I was simply making the point that having the critical mass of AAP students matters more in middle school than in elementary and it makes more sense not to have more local level IV centers in middle school. You need to get the chip off of your shoulder.

Different poster here, but AAP centers at each of Cooper, Kilmer (without the Cooper kids from Great Falls) and Longfellow (with the Cooper kids from McLean) would still be large compared to many other AAP centers in the county. "Critical mass" sounds great up until the point when a facility is grossly overcrowded.

All the more reason to have one middle school center for each cluster.

That doesn't follow at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Please...there is no point in arguing AAP vs. GE-and in fact, Cluster 1 schools have adopted the AAP curriculum standards in GE this year, at least at our center school. I was simply making the point that having the critical mass of AAP students matters more in middle school than in elementary and it makes more sense not to have more local level IV centers in middle school. You need to get the chip off of your shoulder.

Different poster here, but AAP centers at each of Cooper, Kilmer (without the Cooper kids from Great Falls) and Longfellow (with the Cooper kids from McLean) would still be large compared to many other AAP centers in the county. "Critical mass" sounds great up until the point when a facility is grossly overcrowded.

All the more reason to have one middle school center for each cluster.

Anonymous wrote:
Please...there is no point in arguing AAP vs. GE-and in fact, Cluster 1 schools have adopted the AAP curriculum standards in GE this year, at least at our center school. I was simply making the point that having the critical mass of AAP students matters more in middle school than in elementary and it makes more sense not to have more local level IV centers in middle school. You need to get the chip off of your shoulder.

Different poster here, but AAP centers at each of Cooper, Kilmer (without the Cooper kids from Great Falls) and Longfellow (with the Cooper kids from McLean) would still be large compared to many other AAP centers in the county. "Critical mass" sounds great up until the point when a facility is grossly overcrowded.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cluster 2 families were told last year they had to send their kids to a new AAP program at Lemon Road ES with no track record, so Cluster 1 families can send their kids to a new AAP program at Cooper MS. You don't have a right to send your kids to Kilmer or Longfellow just because you pay property taxes.

The stakes are higher in middle school for the AAP kids-sorry, that is just the reality. It makes more sense to have more local centers and level IV centers at an elementary school level.

Did I seriously just read this? You feel that the stakes are higher for AAP kids? That, in a nutshell, is what is so very wrong with the AAP program as it is today. The parents actually believe their kids are more special and more important than the general ed. kids, and so everything must revolve around them. What this area needs are far fewer centers and FAR fewer AAP kids. General Ed kids deserve the same amount of focus and energy that AAP has been getting from FCPS.

Please...there is no point in arguing AAP vs. GE-and in fact, Cluster 1 schools have adopted the AAP curriculum standards in GE this year, at least at our center school. I was simply making the point that having the critical mass of AAP students matters more in middle school than in elementary and it makes more sense not to have more local level IV centers in middle school. You need to get the chip off of your shoulder.