Anonymous wrote: In any case, these parents are not casting dispersions on people like me as they know that much of being successful is working hard in whatever you focus on.

I think you mean aspersions, OP

Anonymous wrote:OP - I worry about you two in middle school. Honestly, your response to my post shows you are micromanaging beyond micromanaging. You care about an A on every last assignment? That is not going to serve you well in middle school. I can promise you that.

When I said "clerical," I didn't mean "its stupid, you don't have to do it." I meant the assignment was probably done, possibly turned in, possibly misplaced during a period when there was a sub and my child wasn't going to push the teacher any further. His call. Not mine to make.

You should also know that a) blackboard won't tell you everything you need to know about turned in assignments with enough time to remedy every little stupid assignment, and b) teachers sometimes won't accept work after it is too late, and you can't force the teacher to take it. There are a lot of assignments.

Good luck.

PP Are you reading into this thread the type of mom that you think I am rather than what I wrote?

I specifically said I don't give my kid a hard time for every non-A assignment. That is too much pressure for any kid.

I never said that my DD would receive any credit for a late assignment. She would complete it and would try to turn it in regardless of whether she earned credit or not. If she had been rebuffed for trying to turn it in well that would be the consequence. In the teacher's mind, I have to believe he/she would remember the attempt.

In the hypothetical, I was talking about a multiday major assignment that my DD chose to complete the last day. I never said the blackboard told her everything she needed to know. If she had started it early though, she would have had the chance to ask the teacher a question.


Again, I see an excuse...the sub lost my sons work so he got a B-. Please- your son probably lied to you and never turned in the work. I have a hard time believing he would be okay with a B because of a clerical error on the part of the teacher.

OP - I worry about you two in middle school. Honestly, your response to my post shows you are micromanaging beyond micromanaging. You care about an A on every last assignment? That is not going to serve you well in middle school. I can promise you that.

When I said "clerical," I didn't mean "its stupid, you don't have to do it." I meant the assignment was probably done, possibly turned in, possibly misplaced during a period when there was a sub and my child wasn't going to push the teacher any further. His call. Not mine to make.

You should also know that a) blackboard won't tell you everything you need to know about turned in assignments with enough time to remedy every little stupid assignment, and b) teachers sometimes won't accept work after it is too late, and you can't force the teacher to take it. There are a lot of assignments.

Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:My son is a bit unmotivated too. For every paper that comes home where he earns a good grade & has followed directions, he earns 15 mins of screen time. Once in a while he gets lazy & makes careless mistakes on his homework. If he does it 100% correct, I pay him a dollar. Ha! Probably not very PC, but it works for my unmotivated son.

Nah, you're doing fine. The idea is that working diligently becomes a habit, it becomes ingrained and a part of him. If you have to bribe him to get to the ingraining part, so be it. Now if you were taking his stuff away (besides electronics and other distractions) or otherwise punishing him, the "experts" would say you were doing it wrong because you'd be making him angry and resentful, which get in the way of the ingraining stuff.

My son is a bit unmotivated too. For every paper that comes home where he earns a good grade & has followed directions, he earns 15 mins of screen time. Once in a while he gets lazy & makes careless mistakes on his homework. If he does it 100% correct, I pay him a dollar. Ha! Probably not very PC, but it works for my unmotivated son.

From Forbes earlier this month:

Seven Crippling Parent Behaviors That Keep Children From Growing Into Leaders

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kathycaprino/2014/01/16/7-crippling-parenting-behaviors-that-keep-children-from-growing-into-leaders/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am one you consider a "disparager" although I am not - the yelling isn't working for you and it didn't work for me.

My kid gets mostly A's. I'm one who focuses in inputs, not outputs.

Here's my question to you: I and my son looked over his work for the quarter and discovered that his B+ in science is partly driven by two "missed" assignments (out of maybe 40, and all tests were solid A's). I said what I had to say about the missing assignments (at least one of which was related to clerical crap related to absences and a sub), showed the effect, and moved on. He also got a B on an assignment he was very proud of (and had worked hard on).

My questions to you:
* What would you yell about?
* Would you have yelled less if the math had turned out a tiny bit different and the grade rounded up to 90 instead of down to 89? Can that difference possibly matter?

Please focus a bit less on straight A's. Some imperfection is a good thing. To retain perfection means never taking chances (also means grading scale is too easy), never taking a course strictly for the love of learning.... Possibly never really engaging in a hobby because it detracts from memorizing vocab words...

OP here- I wouldn't yell about the B if that was my daughter's best work. Honestly a single "B" on an assignment isn't going to change her GPA (she's still in elementary) as they always have a ton of assignments. A single "B" wouldn't be on my radar either. However if I saw a pattern of two or three non A grades then I would address the issue.

But let's take your hypothetical at face value. If my daughter had a grade changing assignment and received a "B" on it, which caused her to end up with a "B" for the marking period, I wouldn't punish her assuming that she correctly plan for the assignment. However, if she had a full week to complete the assignment and worked her tail off the night before and earned a "B" she would get in trouble because she improperly planned. She would have done better, been able to ask the teacher questions etc, if she had done a draft the first night rather than waiting until the night before it was due.

Instead let's hypothetically say that she really couldn't earn an "A" on that particular assignment and she had worked diligently and properly planned. Would she get in trouble? Absolutely not. Would we work on a corrective action plan? Absolutely. I would work with her to focus on what that "weakness" was so that she would be able to perform better the next time. Does she have problems organizing her thoughts? In the case we'd buy a writing book, talk with the teacher, or would work together to do whatever it takes.

Honestly, my daughter would never be in the situation where she doesn't turn in an assignment. There are a few times where she has forgotten to turn the assignment in and I get flagged by the online grading system and yes I get upset. My DD would then turn the assignment in the next day. If hypothetically the system was down and I didn't find out until after grades came out, I would be upset. In that case, she would still turn in the assignment late despite the fact that she wouldn't receive credit. As a side note, it is another pet peeve of mine when parents make the oh it is okay that my kid didn't turn in the assignment excuse because the assignment was clerical (i.e. unimportant). I do a ton of things that I hate (fill out FSA/tax forms, clean my house, cook) etc and really that is part of life.

Also, the argument that a lot of parents whose kids do not earn straight A's is that kids like mine don't have time for hobbies etc. It's really a load of hogwash. The parents who make these arguments aren't the ones waking up at 5:00 am to take their kid to early swim, gymnastics practice. The parents that I know who have kids who participate in extremely competitive sports generally have kids who also do well in school. In any case, these parents are not casting dispersions on people like me as they know that much of being successful is working hard in whatever you focus on. The ones making this argument at least from what I've seen are the same parents who complain that their kid spends too much time watching TV/ playing on their Ipads.

My daughter does extra circular activities for fun as do her straight A/almost straight A friends. They really do have fun too.

Holy crap.

This seems like incredibly over-involved helicopter parenting. It's actually more than what I imagined when the earlier pages of this thread.

Do you really think this degree of micro-managing on your part is required for your DD to learn to be a responsible, hard-working, organized and accountable student by the time she leaves your home at age 17/18/19?

If so, you have very little faith in your child.

Unless she has certain special needs (including those that interfere with executive planning), I can not imagine why a ten year old would require so much parental handling to learn these skills at an age-appropriate pace before age 18.

Yes, of course, it might take time (months, even years) for her to find her way to where you want her be. And yes, she would certainly make mistakes and disappoint you (and herself!) along the way. But she will ultimately develop into a very different adult if she discovers this skills in her own way, at her own pace, without you cramming them down her throat. Again, this goes back to the distinction between a person who internally motivated vs. a person who is extrinsically motivated.

I think you want her to grow up to become a self-motivated, responsible person. But by micro-managing her the way you describe, you are actually sending her the message that you don't think she is capable of doing that without copious help from you. How defeating!

I strongly encourage you to have more faith in your daughter, and to back off accordingly.

OP again- and trust me, the reason she gets straight A's is definitely not because her private is too easy.

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am one you consider a "disparager" although I am not - the yelling isn't working for you and it didn't work for me.

My kid gets mostly A's. I'm one who focuses in inputs, not outputs.

Here's my question to you: I and my son looked over his work for the quarter and discovered that his B+ in science is partly driven by two "missed" assignments (out of maybe 40, and all tests were solid A's). I said what I had to say about the missing assignments (at least one of which was related to clerical crap related to absences and a sub), showed the effect, and moved on. He also got a B on an assignment he was very proud of (and had worked hard on).

My questions to you:
* What would you yell about?
* Would you have yelled less if the math had turned out a tiny bit different and the grade rounded up to 90 instead of down to 89? Can that difference possibly matter?

Please focus a bit less on straight A's. Some imperfection is a good thing. To retain perfection means never taking chances (also means grading scale is too easy), never taking a course strictly for the love of learning.... Possibly never really engaging in a hobby because it detracts from memorizing vocab words...

OP here- I wouldn't yell about the B if that was my daughter's best work. Honestly a single "B" on an assignment isn't going to change her GPA (she's still in elementary) as they always have a ton of assignments. A single "B" wouldn't be on my radar either. However if I saw a pattern of two or three non A grades then I would address the issue.

But let's take your hypothetical at face value. If my daughter had a grade changing assignment and received a "B" on it, which caused her to end up with a "B" for the marking period, I wouldn't punish her assuming that she correctly plan for the assignment. However, if she had a full week to complete the assignment and worked her tail off the night before and earned a "B" she would get in trouble because she improperly planned. She would have done better, been able to ask the teacher questions etc, if she had done a draft the first night rather than waiting until the night before it was due.

Instead let's hypothetically say that she really couldn't earn an "A" on that particular assignment and she had worked diligently and properly planned. Would she get in trouble? Absolutely not. Would we work on a corrective action plan? Absolutely. I would work with her to focus on what that "weakness" was so that she would be able to perform better the next time. Does she have problems organizing her thoughts? In the case we'd buy a writing book, talk with the teacher, or would work together to do whatever it takes.

Honestly, my daughter would never be in the situation where she doesn't turn in an assignment. There are a few times where she has forgotten to turn the assignment in and I get flagged by the online grading system and yes I get upset. My DD would then turn the assignment in the next day. If hypothetically the system was down and I didn't find out until after grades came out, I would be upset. In that case, she would still turn in the assignment late despite the fact that she wouldn't receive credit. As a side note, it is another pet peeve of mine when parents make the oh it is okay that my kid didn't turn in the assignment excuse because the assignment was clerical (i.e. unimportant). I do a ton of things that I hate (fill out FSA/tax forms, clean my house, cook) etc and really that is part of life.

Also, the argument that a lot of parents whose kids do not earn straight A's is that kids like mine don't have time for hobbies etc. It's really a load of hogwash. The parents who make these arguments aren't the ones waking up at 5:00 am to take their kid to early swim, gymnastics practice. The parents that I know who have kids who participate in extremely competitive sports generally have kids who also do well in school. In any case, these parents are not casting dispersions on people like me as they know that much of being successful is working hard in whatever you focus on. The ones making this argument at least from what I've seen are the same parents who complain that their kid spends too much time watching TV/ playing on their Ipads.

My daughter does extra circular activities for fun as do her straight A/almost straight A friends. They really do have fun too.

Anonymous wrote:It completely depends on what "pushing" means. So far on this thread, "pushing" has been defined as extreme Tiger Mom yelling and screaming. This has been contrasted with its polar opposite, a completely "hands off" approach because either "my DD is innately motivated" or "I want to be friends with my kid." Painting these extremes is stupid and unhelpful!

If by "pushing" you mean yelling and punishing, this doesn't work. There are apparently studies to show this. Your kid will not internalize study habits and a love of learning. In the worst case, at some point your kid will dig in and refuse to work hard.

If by "pushing" you mean setting expectations, setting rules (no electronics after a certain hour except for maybe a 1/2 break at 8:00) and earning privileges (if you get a certain grade on the math test or a certain GPA you get to do sports, or a sleepover on Friday, or your learner's permit) then yes, some kids need this. I know what you're thinking, and this bribery isn't going to motivate your kid to love Algebra. But it's simply not optional to bug out on Algebra. More importantly, with repetition and practice of study habits and skills he will internalize these study habits and skills, which are important for success in life beyond Algebra.

FWIW, my older kid, a girl, was innately driven and is now at a college that accepts 7% of applicants. DC#2, a boy, is very bright but lacks drive. It's funny most of the unmotivated kids talked about here are boys, but I'm no expert and this certainly falls short of a valid survey (I'm in research, like smug racist dad at 6:29 with the - surprise- motivated DD).

Yeah, I'm the one that started the criticism of "wanting to be friends" - you are dead on about what happened with this thread, since I didn't say "friends" but rather "not hate." Very nice post.

And the note about the boys: you bet. My belief is that some of the "motivation problem" is that we are asking for more attention to detail than many children can handle, disproportionately boys. Yes, my kid is unorganized, but it doesn't help that he has to check a thousand different places every week to figure out what's what and that blackboard gets updated whenever the teachers feel like it.

It completely depends on what "pushing" means. So far on this thread, "pushing" has been defined as extreme Tiger Mom yelling and screaming. This has been contrasted with its polar opposite, a completely "hands off" approach because either "my DD is innately motivated" or "I want to be friends with my kid." Painting these extremes is stupid and unhelpful!

If by "pushing" you mean yelling and punishing, this doesn't work. There are apparently studies to show this. Your kid will not internalize study habits and a love of learning. In the worst case, at some point your kid will dig in and refuse to work hard.

If by "pushing" you mean setting expectations, setting rules (no electronics after a certain hour except for maybe a 1/2 break at 8:00) and earning privileges (if you get a certain grade on the math test or a certain GPA you get to do sports, or a sleepover on Friday, or your learner's permit) then yes, some kids need this. I know what you're thinking, and this bribery isn't going to motivate your kid to love Algebra. But it's simply not optional to bug out on Algebra. More importantly, with repetition and practice of study habits and skills he will internalize these study habits and skills, which are important for success in life beyond Algebra.

FWIW, my older kid, a girl, was innately driven and is now at a college that accepts 7% of applicants. DC#2, a boy, is very bright but lacks drive. It's funny most of the unmotivated kids talked about here are boys, but I'm no expert and this certainly falls short of a valid survey (I'm in research, like smug racist dad at 6:29 with the - surprise- motivated DD).

Anonymous wrote:I am 06:29.....While you tiger mom's kids may know how to solve the problems laid out for them, they will not know how to formulate new problems....to see where improvement is required. They might do fine, financially, but they will not be great....the Einsteins, the Jobs. Rather, they will be (at best) the people profiting off of the Einsteins or Jobs.

At worst, they will be college burnouts, strung out on drugs in the psych ward.

That's what they always say. Just keep waiting for that fail. So far its been 45 years and no sign of suicide, but keep hold your breath.

OP - I am one you consider a "disparager" although I am not - the yelling isn't working for you and it didn't work for me.

My kid gets mostly A's. I'm one who focuses in inputs, not outputs.

Here's my question to you: I and my son looked over his work for the quarter and discovered that his B+ in science is partly driven by two "missed" assignments (out of maybe 40, and all tests were solid A's). I said what I had to say about the missing assignments (at least one of which was related to clerical crap related to absences and a sub), showed the effect, and moved on. He also got a B on an assignment he was very proud of (and had worked hard on).

My questions to you:
* What would you yell about?
* Would you have yelled less if the math had turned out a tiny bit different and the grade rounded up to 90 instead of down to 89? Can that difference possibly matter?

Please focus a bit less on straight A's. Some imperfection is a good thing. To retain perfection means never taking chances (also means grading scale is too easy), never taking a course strictly for the love of learning.... Possibly never really engaging in a hobby because it detracts from memorizing vocab words...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. She loses all TV, playdates and electronics when she earns disappointing grades. However nothing seems to get through to her like the fact that she disappointed me. Most of the time I'm pretty even keel but this is the one area where I get rattled easily. It is a real sacrifice to send her to her school.

OP, my DH and I were discussing a similar issue this morning, concerning our 9 year old DS. All I can say is, I hear you.

I will not apologize for being a "Tiger Mom." Grades ARE important, we ARE sacrificing a lot to send him to an elite private school, and he damn well better hold up his end of the bargain. My DC sounds a lot like yours -- loves to read, but is often unmotivated in school. At minimum he does not yet understand the value of this education and how well it could serve him in the future.

I think back to the stories of Obama's mother. If I recall correctly, she was waking him up at 4:00 in the morning to study. Every. Single. Day. She worked hard to send him to that fancy school he went to, and was not going to let him waltz through it with minimum effort. I would bet anything that he's pushing his own girls in the same way.

Painful!

We are also sacrificing for private school (as I suspect most of the other parents are as well) and really, if DC can't be bothered to do well, public school is always there. I don't care a moment what other moms think about my style. Most of them feel the same way.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this thread and I would like those who are casting stones at me, to please share how your kids performed in school. I am surprised at how many people can't relate. I do appreciate the helpful posters though.

FWIW- I did pose the following question to my kids this weekend without prompting the correct answer," Is it more important to get straight A's or to work hard/do you best?" Both of the kids answered that doing their best was more important.

I just find that my older one in particular at times lacks internal motivation (outside of reading books) which is why I get so frustrated. She has very good standardized test scores also so she is obviously capable. If she didn't have the ability to earn straight A's, I would understand and work with her to ensure she achieved to her highest potential. Taking away her ability to watch TV, electronics,playdates, and lecturing/yelling (I'm not proud of that part) works as motivation now. She is more driven this year than she has been in the past- but she slips back at times. I probably yell/lecture her about once every month or two. It isn't like I am doing this on a daily basis. I would be shocked if the people casting dispersions at me didn't yell at that their children at times too for whatever their hot button is either.

I do and will always hold my kids to high standards and will not make excuses for it. There are always better ways of handling situations and I know I can do better.

I was really hoping to hear from other mom's whose kids earned straight A's whether they felt like they really had to push their children when they were younger or if their young children had an innate drive.

Most of my DD's friends are highly successful in school and I know that their parents are involved and push too. DD and her friends also have very high EQ's too.

Check carefully with each teacher. Some teachers are just not going to give an A to your DD. Sometimes it is more motivating to be understanding. Pushing now is a great idea, because when they reach their teen years, they don't listen, but the habits are in place. One of mine has the innate drive, and the other does not. But he wants to keep up with his brother.