I'm an atheist and celebrate Christmas. But I'm also French, and everyone that I know in France celebrates Christmas and they're all atheist/agnostic (or Jewish/Muslim.) great food + wine + presents = why wouldn't you celebrate Christmas?

This is completely fucking weird. You are bringing your kids to church twice a month to hear a bunch of crap you don't even believe in? Because you can't work out how to have them develop a moral framework otherwise?
This is the craziest thing I have read on dcum in 2013, and that is saying something.

I agree with this. If you can't teach your kids right from wrong, and to be good people, without reference to God - parenting fail.

OP was complaining about the non-Christians who do it and spend the whole time complaining, "sulking and whining" on DCUM and elsewhere presumably. Not merely that non-Christians have trees. Here is her post:

"Did anyone else find that odd? All these posts about kids and their lists and sulking and whining with what they got?? A day of free stuff for no reason and they are complaining?! I honestly don't get it. WTH?"

I agree. It's all the sulking and whining that baffle me. So don't do it. Who cares if it's "family tradition" or whatnot. We certainly don't care that you're making youself a "martyr". We are sick of listening to you bitch and moan. If you hate it, simply stop doing it and grow up!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. My entire family is Catholic. My DH was raised Catholic. My DH's family is Catholic.

Our families celebrate Christmas. We celebrate it, too. It's within our cultural heritage. We are secular Catholics, the way some people are secular Jews.

I don't see what's weird about it.

It contradicts your commitment to atheism? That's what's weird. Atheists shouldn't celebrate the birth of a deity.

DH and I are atheists. Our children are not. They are being raised in a religion that they can decide to reject when they are older. I think religion gives a moral frame work to life. Atheism's philosophical frame work is harder to pass on to children. You have to want to be a nice person because there is no external factor like heaven or hell. So we do Christmas and take our kids to mass on Christmas Eve. We participate in a cultural ritual that we don't believe in because we, and more specifically our kids, are a part of society.

I agree that kids need a moral framework. What you do is fascinating. Do you take them to church every Sunday or only on Christmas Eve?

We try to go once or twice a month. Why is this fascinating? I assumed most people do this.

That's your problem right there. Why do you think others are like you? No, this is really peculiar.

This is completely fucking weird. You are bringing your kids to church twice a month to hear a bunch of crap you don't even believe in? Because you can't work out how to have them develop a moral framework otherwise?
This is the craziest thing I have read on dcum in 2013, and that is saying something.

Yes, I don't think a 4 year old is a sophisticated enough thinker to understand atheism. I think atheism is a rejection of religion and therefore one must understand that which they are rejecting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. My entire family is Catholic. My DH was raised Catholic. My DH's family is Catholic.

Our families celebrate Christmas. We celebrate it, too. It's within our cultural heritage. We are secular Catholics, the way some people are secular Jews.

I don't see what's weird about it.

It contradicts your commitment to atheism? That's what's weird. Atheists shouldn't celebrate the birth of a deity.

DH and I are atheists. Our children are not. They are being raised in a religion that they can decide to reject when they are older. I think religion gives a moral frame work to life. Atheism's philosophical frame work is harder to pass on to children. You have to want to be a nice person because there is no external factor like heaven or hell. So we do Christmas and take our kids to mass on Christmas Eve. We participate in a cultural ritual that we don't believe in because we, and more specifically our kids, are a part of society.

That is all kinds of messed up. How did you happen to choose Christianity as the faith in which they are to be indoctrinated?

Because DH and I were raised Christian (Catholic and Episcopalian). I don't think it is messed up. They don't have to become atheists but it is their decision.

We do the same thing. I don't think it is great, of course I am complimenting myself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. My entire family is Catholic. My DH was raised Catholic. My DH's family is Catholic.

Our families celebrate Christmas. We celebrate it, too. It's within our cultural heritage. We are secular Catholics, the way some people are secular Jews.

I don't see what's weird about it.

It contradicts your commitment to atheism? That's what's weird. Atheists shouldn't celebrate the birth of a deity.

DH and I are atheists. Our children are not. They are being raised in a religion that they can decide to reject when they are older. I think religion gives a moral frame work to life. Atheism's philosophical frame work is harder to pass on to children. You have to want to be a nice person because there is no external factor like heaven or hell. So we do Christmas and take our kids to mass on Christmas Eve. We participate in a cultural ritual that we don't believe in because we, and more specifically our kids, are a part of society.

I agree that kids need a moral framework. What you do is fascinating. Do you take them to church every Sunday or only on Christmas Eve?

We try to go once or twice a month. Why is this fascinating? I assumed most people do this.

That's your problem right there. Why do you think others are like you? No, this is really peculiar.

This is completely fucking weird. You are bringing your kids to church twice a month to hear a bunch of crap you don't even believe in? Because you can't work out how to have them develop a moral framework otherwise?
This is the craziest thing I have read on dcum in 2013, and that is saying something.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. My entire family is Catholic. My DH was raised Catholic. My DH's family is Catholic.

Our families celebrate Christmas. We celebrate it, too. It's within our cultural heritage. We are secular Catholics, the way some people are secular Jews.

I don't see what's weird about it.

It contradicts your commitment to atheism? That's what's weird. Atheists shouldn't celebrate the birth of a deity.

DH and I are atheists. Our children are not. They are being raised in a religion that they can decide to reject when they are older. I think religion gives a moral frame work to life. Atheism's philosophical frame work is harder to pass on to children. You have to want to be a nice person because there is no external factor like heaven or hell. So we do Christmas and take our kids to mass on Christmas Eve. We participate in a cultural ritual that we don't believe in because we, and more specifically our kids, are a part of society.

I agree that kids need a moral framework. What you do is fascinating. Do you take them to church every Sunday or only on Christmas Eve?

We try to go once or twice a month. Why is this fascinating? I assumed most people do this.

That's your problem right there. Why do you think others are like you? No, this is really peculiar.

I think atheism is too much for little kids. Do other atheist just tell their kids there is nothing?

As one of the PPs said earlier, many atheists were raised in families that celebrated Christmas, so it's a family tradition. Just because we don't share the belief in the deity doesn't mean we don't enjoy sharing the tradition with the family.

It's also a cultural tradition in the US (just in case you weren't paying attention to every possible source of media since Halloween). Businesses and government are closed and everything pretty much shuts down, so it's a convenient time for spending time with family and friends, regardless of what you believe. Mid-winter feasts and celebrations were a common element of most cultures before Christianity came along.

Just because I don't believe in celebrating the birth of a deity in whom I don't believe doesn't mean I don't enjoy a good party along with all of my family and friends, regardless of what they believe.

It's fun to put up a Christmas tree and decorations. It's fun to have feasts and parties with family and friends. It's fun to give and receive presents. It's a great opportunity to see the world through a child's eyes and see magic. It's a great opportunity to focus on what we have and should be thankful for, and what we should do to help others who are less fortunate. Christians do not have a monopoly on the spirit of giving.

The spirit of this thread (and others like it), though, reminds me of those who argue that allowing gay marriage somehow diminishes their own heterosexual marriage. Just as allowing gays to marry doesn't change any heterosexual couple's marriage, knowing that non-Christians celebrate at Christmas shouldn't have any effect on how Christians celebrate. It doesn't diminish your own focus on Jesus, your Church, your family, your joy and your own religious observance, whatever it is. Basically, you want to raise the drawbridge and say, "This is ours and you can't have any unless you're willing to do it on our terms," which I'd argue is not the spirit of the season (but what do I know, I'm just an atheist ).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. My entire family is Catholic. My DH was raised Catholic. My DH's family is Catholic.

Our families celebrate Christmas. We celebrate it, too. It's within our cultural heritage. We are secular Catholics, the way some people are secular Jews.

I don't see what's weird about it.

It contradicts your commitment to atheism? That's what's weird. Atheists shouldn't celebrate the birth of a deity.

DH and I are atheists. Our children are not. They are being raised in a religion that they can decide to reject when they are older. I think religion gives a moral frame work to life. Atheism's philosophical frame work is harder to pass on to children. You have to want to be a nice person because there is no external factor like heaven or hell. So we do Christmas and take our kids to mass on Christmas Eve. We participate in a cultural ritual that we don't believe in because we, and more specifically our kids, are a part of society.

That is all kinds of messed up. How did you happen to choose Christianity as the faith in which they are to be indoctrinated?

Because DH and I were raised Christian (Catholic and Episcopalian). I don't think it is messed up. They don't have to become atheists but it is their decision.

The pagans started it all, and every culture has winter celebration. I would have loved to get every one of those days off.

Like you are going to work instead of celebrating the Chinese New Year if you live in China?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. My entire family is Catholic. My DH was raised Catholic. My DH's family is Catholic.

Our families celebrate Christmas. We celebrate it, too. It's within our cultural heritage. We are secular Catholics, the way some people are secular Jews.

I don't see what's weird about it.

It contradicts your commitment to atheism? That's what's weird. Atheists shouldn't celebrate the birth of a deity.

DH and I are atheists. Our children are not. They are being raised in a religion that they can decide to reject when they are older. I think religion gives a moral frame work to life. Atheism's philosophical frame work is harder to pass on to children. You have to want to be a nice person because there is no external factor like heaven or hell. So we do Christmas and take our kids to mass on Christmas Eve. We participate in a cultural ritual that we don't believe in because we, and more specifically our kids, are a part of society.

I agree that kids need a moral framework. What you do is fascinating. Do you take them to church every Sunday or only on Christmas Eve?

We try to go once or twice a month. Why is this fascinating? I assumed most people do this.

That's your problem right there. Why do you think others are like you? No, this is really peculiar.

Every year we go through the same thing. Christmas is a syncretic holiday tradition.

syn·cre·tism [sing-kri-tiz-uhm, sin-] Show IPA
noun
1.
the attempted reconciliation or union of different or opposing principles, practices, or parties, as in philosophy or religion.

The date for Christmas was chosen to land on the Winter Solstice in the 4th Century. The reason is that when you want a bunch of pagans to convert to your religion, you throw a competing party at the same time. Apparently we liked the gift giving tradition from the pagans enough to keep it.

Later as christianity snowballed, it rolled over the Germanic people, where as snowballs do it picked up what was there - the Yule, i.e. that big green tree in our houses, the term "Yuletide". We do a mashup of Odin and St. Nicholas and we get Santa. In case anyone doubts, ask yourself why the man wears fur when Jesus was born in Bethlehem and the Pope lives in Rome. Also read about how Odin flew threw the sky from his frosty home in the North to deliver presents to children on a horse which, until the poem "Night before Christmas" Santa also rode. If this happened today, Odin would be hauling Santa into copyright court. If you think this is pure coincidence, try to name the first religion that had a spring holiday with painted eggs and bunny rabbits. Guess what, it wasn't Christianity.

Christians should not be afraid to recognize the evolution of our religious traditions. This is how we grew to become one of the biggest religions on the planet. We compromised and absorbed cultural elements to which people had great historic and emotional attachment. We should not turn our backs on the process that got us here. It's all part of the history. Now enjoy that tree and all the greening around your house, and do your best to get that pile of presents from Odin put away before daddy or mommy steps on a sharp piece of plastic and has to get stitches.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. My entire family is Catholic. My DH was raised Catholic. My DH's family is Catholic.

Our families celebrate Christmas. We celebrate it, too. It's within our cultural heritage. We are secular Catholics, the way some people are secular Jews.

I don't see what's weird about it.

It contradicts your commitment to atheism? That's what's weird. Atheists shouldn't celebrate the birth of a deity.

DH and I are atheists. Our children are not. They are being raised in a religion that they can decide to reject when they are older. I think religion gives a moral frame work to life. Atheism's philosophical frame work is harder to pass on to children. You have to want to be a nice person because there is no external factor like heaven or hell. So we do Christmas and take our kids to mass on Christmas Eve. We participate in a cultural ritual that we don't believe in because we, and more specifically our kids, are a part of society.

That is all kinds of messed up. How did you happen to choose Christianity as the faith in which they are to be indoctrinated?

I am an atheist, and I love Xmas for all the kitsch baby Jesus shit. I wouldn't give it up for the world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm an atheist who was raised Catholic. My entire family is Catholic. My DH was raised Catholic. My DH's family is Catholic.

Our families celebrate Christmas. We celebrate it, too. It's within our cultural heritage. We are secular Catholics, the way some people are secular Jews.

I don't see what's weird about it.

It contradicts your commitment to atheism? That's what's weird. Atheists shouldn't celebrate the birth of a deity.

DH and I are atheists. Our children are not. They are being raised in a religion that they can decide to reject when they are older. I think religion gives a moral frame work to life. Atheism's philosophical frame work is harder to pass on to children. You have to want to be a nice person because there is no external factor like heaven or hell. So we do Christmas and take our kids to mass on Christmas Eve. We participate in a cultural ritual that we don't believe in because we, and more specifically our kids, are a part of society.

I agree that kids need a moral framework. What you do is fascinating. Do you take them to church every Sunday or only on Christmas Eve?

We try to go once or twice a month. Why is this fascinating? I assumed most people do this.